[Archived] possible transfer targets summer 2013

[JBiz]

I think it's fair to say most of us suspected it to be the case. I was hoping in pure blind optimism that it wasn't as bad as that...turns out it is!

I hear you mate. It's realistic to say we have another tough season ahead.

Why so doom and gloom? Surely you would take the position we are in now, to the one around the end of March or beginning of April?

[beanie]

I believe I explained my thoughts on that topic in an earlier post.

Can't be arsed arguing when you have just decided he's not good enough i bow to your greater knowledge i'm guessing you have seen him many times and know so much about scouting and players that you know whats best.

[Bundesburn]

Can't be arsed arguing when you have just decided he's not good enough i bow to your greater knowledge i'm guessing you have seen him many times and know so much about scouting and players that you know whats best.

With respect, I'm pretty sure Majiball knows a fair old amount about just those things, actually. I'd wager a fair amount more than yourself.

[ada2020]

Why so doom and gloom? Surely you would take the position we are in now, to the one around the end of March or beginning of April?

Whats changed?

[JBiz]

Whats changed?

1. Not staring relegation to the third tier in the face.

Nuff said.

[Batman.]

1. Not staring relegation to the third tier in the face.

Nuff said.

What? Is that supposed to be an argument? We spent the last third of last season staring relegation in the face, and for my money, the squad now is barely stronger, if at all.

"Nuff said."

[beanie]

With respect, I'm pretty sure Majiball knows a fair old amount about just those things, actually. I'd wager a fair amount more than yourself.

With due respect i know as much about you as you do me which is sweet FA and i would guess i know just as much as Maji in respect of the boy in question and if the the club want to give him a trial let them without signaling it as a poor signing.

[JBiz]

What? Is that supposed to be an argument? We spent the last third of last season staring relegation in the face, and for my money, the squad now is barely stronger, if at all.

"Nuff said."

Basing the problems we had last season being solely down to our squad is just as pathetic in terms of argument.

a couple of Managers, players wouldn't play for or a Manager who has the mainstay of players onside (proven for now)

I see that as an improvement - the squad is by in large the same.

[bluebruce]

Every transfer window, basic, obvious observations are made and repeatedly ignored, or awful, demonstrably false points are repeatedly made, resulting in a lot of futile or circular arguments. I'd like to list as many as I can think of at the moment, in the hopes that it may break through to some people.

1) Just because someone is from a country with a weak footballing history, they're rubbish. See George Weah, Chris Samba, and obviously many more.

2) Just because someone is from a lower or weaker league, they're rubbish. See Ian Wright, Jordan Rhodes, N'zonzi, etc etc.

3) Just because someone is on trial, they're rubbish (logic being, for instance, that they mustn't be good enough to bring in off what they've done). Nelsen, Samba.

4) Just because someone is free, or cheap, they're rubbish. Samba, Nelsen, Friedel, Yakubu, countless more for our club and others.

5) Just because someone gives an example of a player like Messi, Weah, their example is too extreme to be taken seriously. "Such a player isn't Messi" Yep, and we're not Barcelona. The argument usually goes that 'you can't compare them to Tugay'. These arguments usually ignore the fact that the point being made is not that this player is comparable in ability, or that the situation is one hundred percent identical. The point is usually that there are exceptions to the point made previously, such as those above.

6) Just because someone isn't falling over themselves to play for us instead of everyone else, we should look elsewhere. This one is particularly stupid at this time in our history. All footballers are mercenaries who are highly motivated by the money. All. It isn't the only thing that matters to them, but it's the biggest. And we are an utter shambles at this time. Obviously if a deal looks unrealistic, we should look elsewhere, but it doesn't mean this signing wouldn't be a good one for us. Often, it would be, because it will be when we are trying to punch above our weight.

7) Just because someone is short, skilful, foreign or has fancy hair, they can't be a hard worker or tackle, and must get knocked over like a feather.

8) On a similar note, the idea you utterly have to be physical to succeed in this league. I shouldn't need to give examples for 7 or 8 to any proper football fans.

9) Just because I (the poster) haven't seen or heard of a player, they're crap.

10) Just because one person, report, or youtube video suggests someone is good, doesn't mean they are suddenly the answer if you still pretty much know nothing of them. The same can go in reverse- just because someone has a good youtube video doesn't mean they are 'another Carlos Villanueva' (who I actually thought deserved far more of a chance, but that's another matter). A video is always going to give you some insight into a player, but is limited.

11) We should spend money we don't have. This has been common over the years, with claims that 'We absolutely need a left back, centre back, midfielder, and forward or we are in major trouble'. Almost every prophecy of this sort I have seen has proven false. Even when we did go down, I think we all know the main issue was horrendous management all through the club. There are also plenty of people who want to shoot down every single target in our price range, sometimes on the basis of what they cost. We've all seen expensive players flop and cheap ones become absolutely brill. Money helps your odds of getting it right, but is no guarantee- if you can't afford it, don't buy it. Right now we have the FFP regulations to stick to, and are leaking money perpetually under owners we don't trust, and most are ignoring these facts.

12) Just because we've been linked with someone or are taking them on trial, we must be signing them, so let's get preposterously excited or depressed by it.

13) Now, obviously we haven't seen most of our targets or signings play before, and it's a football discussion board, so we are bound to discuss from limited information. I just resent all the absolute statements that get tossed around without thought being paid to the actual logic of what is being said. Less repetitive discussions would happen if people could just say things like (and this one is true from me), "Alex Marrow appears to be the weakest of our summer signings so far on the face of it, having not done much so far, been on loan to a newly promoted League Two side last season (two tiers below where he was supposed to be playing), failed in our own youth system before, and playing somewhere we have a few other players and have been looking to get another, better one in Spearing. Plus he's the only player we've paid a (presumably small) fee for. But since I haven't seen him play, I'll wait and see how he works out." This shows concern rather than dealing in absolutes, or manic depression. I also combined a few observations rather than dismissing him on the basis of one fact alone.

Now, I know I'm not a perfect poster, and I've surely done some of these things myself at times, but the sheer number of extreme statements being thrown around has begun to really bug me...hopefully this can help lessen that slightly. Doubt it though!

[Batman.]

Basing the problems we had last season being solely down to our squad is just as pathetic in terms of argument.

When did I do that?

There is no doubt that they are the biggest problem though. Not enough quality- takes Rhodes and his goals out of this team and you have a League 1 outfit.

[Blue Cabbage]

Bruce, you are talking far too much sense, please leave immediately

[K-Hod]

Bruce with the most sensible and realistic post in a while. Makes a change from the usual everyone's rubbish, everyone's useless rinse and repeat.

[JBiz]

When did I do that?

There is no doubt that they are the biggest problem though. Not enough quality- takes Rhodes and his goals out of this team and you have a League 1 outfit.

You said "We spent the last third of last season staring relegation in the face, and for my money, the squad now is barely stronger, if at all"

Regardless of the manager you've rated the squad (minus Rhodes) a League 1 team. My argument is that Squads can get good results long term with one Manager, then poor long term with another (see the Sam Allardyce to Steve Kean 10th to 17th in 3 months.) Which is a pretty indisputable argument - hence Nuff said.

With Bowyer, we are streets ahead of any point last season because he has PROVEN (for now) that he can do the job, the fans can get behind him and he is making transfer decisions. No changing of the guard hangover or a moronic global advisor talking absolute garbage.

Excellent post BB

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

When did I do that?

There is no doubt that they are the biggest problem though. Not enough quality- takes Rhodes and his goals out of this team and you have a League 1 outfit.

I agree with you, we've also got too many on Premier League wages.

[T.J.Newton]

Every transfer window, basic, obvious observations are made and repeatedly ignored, or awful, demonstrably false points are repeatedly made, resulting in a lot of futile or circular arguments. I'd like to list as many as I can think of at the moment, in the hopes that it may break through to some people.

1) Just because someone is from a country with a weak footballing history, they're rubbish. See George Weah, Chris Samba, and obviously many more.

2) Just because someone is from a lower or weaker league, they're rubbish. See Ian Wright, Jordan Rhodes, N'zonzi, etc etc.

3) Just because someone is on trial, they're rubbish (logic being, for instance, that they mustn't be good enough to bring in off what they've done). Nelsen, Samba.

4) Just because someone is free, or cheap, they're rubbish. Samba, Nelsen, Friedel, Yakubu, countless more for our club and others.

5) Just because someone gives an example of a player like Messi, Weah, their example is too extreme to be taken seriously. "Such a player isn't Messi" Yep, and we're not Barcelona. The argument usually goes that 'you can't compare them to Tugay'. These arguments usually ignore the fact that the point being made is not that this player is comparable in ability, or that the situation is one hundred percent identical. The point is usually that there are exceptions to the point made previously, such as those above.

6) Just because someone isn't falling over themselves to play for us instead of everyone else, we should look elsewhere. This one is particularly stupid at this time in our history. All footballers are mercenaries who are highly motivated by the money. All. It isn't the only thing that matters to them, but it's the biggest. And we are an utter shambles at this time. Obviously if a deal looks unrealistic, we should look elsewhere, but it doesn't mean this signing wouldn't be a good one for us. Often, it would be, because it will be when we are trying to punch above our weight.

7) Just because someone is short, skilful, foreign or has fancy hair, they can't be a hard worker or tackle, and must get knocked over like a feather.

8) On a similar note, the idea you utterly have to be physical to succeed in this league. I shouldn't need to give examples for 7 or 8 to any proper football fans.

9) Just because I (the poster) haven't seen or heard of a player, they're crap.

10) Just because one person, report, or youtube video suggests someone is good, doesn't mean they are suddenly the answer if you still pretty much know nothing of them. The same can go in reverse- just because someone has a good youtube video doesn't mean they are 'another Carlos Villanueva' (who I actually thought deserved far more of a chance, but that's another matter). A video is always going to give you some insight into a player, but is limited.

11) We should spend money we don't have. This has been common over the years, with claims that 'We absolutely need a left back, centre back, midfielder, and forward or we are in major trouble'. Almost every prophecy of this sort I have seen has proven false. Even when we did go down, I think we all know the main issue was horrendous management all through the club. There are also plenty of people who want to shoot down every single target in our price range, sometimes on the basis of what they cost. We've all seen expensive players flop and cheap ones become absolutely brill. Money helps your odds of getting it right, but is no guarantee- if you can't afford it, don't buy it. Right now we have the FFP regulations to stick to, and are leaking money perpetually under owners we don't trust, and most are ignoring these facts.

12) Just because we've been linked with someone or are taking them on trial, we must be signing them, so let's get preposterously excited or depressed by it.

13) Now, obviously we haven't seen most of our targets or signings play before, and it's a football discussion board, so we are bound to discuss from limited information. I just resent all the absolute statements that get tossed around without thought being paid to the actual logic of what is being said. Less repetitive discussions would happen if people could just say things like (and this one is true from me), "Alex Marrow appears to be the weakest of our summer signings so far on the face of it, having not done much so far, been on loan to a newly promoted League Two side last season (two tiers below where he was supposed to be playing), failed in our own youth system before, and playing somewhere we have a few other players and have been looking to get another, better one in Spearing. Plus he's the only player we've paid a (presumably small) fee for. But since I haven't seen him play, I'll wait and see how he works out." This shows concern rather than dealing in absolutes, or manic depression. I also combined a few observations rather than dismissing him on the basis of one fact alone.

Now, I know I'm not a perfect poster, and I've surely done some of these things myself at times, but the sheer number of extreme statements being thrown around has begun to really bug me...hopefully this can help lessen that slightly. Doubt it though!

that's a lot of writing and I'm not really sure what the point your trying to make is or who its aimed at to be honest(a lot of it just seems pretty condescending and stating the obvious)

[SoldierMo]

Too many doom mongers

[T.J.Newton]

Too many doom mongers

Not sure about "too many", id say there are just as many(if not more) living in cloud cuckoo land, but many of them don't post(as like with the doom mongers they also get shot down pretty quick)

.

[Guest Norbert]

One reason for suggesting that this season may well be better is that whilst we may have a lot of the same players, who have failed overall last season, the one manager they did peak and put in a few good results and performances is now our real manager. Kean was a bit lucky results wise, Black was not much better whilst Berg and Appleton were complete poo. Only Bowyer seemed to make the players play, so it is a reasonable assumption that our current squad will do better.

Promotion is unlikely, but at least we should not be as dangerously close to relegation as before.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

1. Not staring relegation to the third tier in the face.

Nuff said.

Some real cold comfort there!

We have been reduced to fighting to stay in this tin pot league.

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

One reason for suggesting that this season may well be better is that whilst we may have a lot of the same players, who have failed overall last season, the one manager they did peak and put in a few good results and performances is now our real manager. Kean was a bit lucky results wise, Black was not much better whilst Berg and Appleton were complete poo. Only Bowyer seemed to make the players play, so it is a reasonable assumption that our current squad will do better.

Promotion is unlikely, but at least we should not be as dangerously close to relegation as before.

I am fairly optimistic about the new season - but not because I think GB made them play hugely better. In his first stint we had some huge slices of luck at key moments - in his second spell the results were enough to keep us up - but IMO just above average. What marked the second spell was how poorly we were playing prior to him taking over. I now wait and hope that with a full pre-season and some of his own players - he can improve the team even further. Though his purchases haven't been as eye catching as the ex-Premiership players we bought last season - they are probably more suited to this division.

[Guest Norbert]

I'm expecting a top half finish, with a spell in the play off positions at some point in the season. If it wasn't for the dodgy finances, I'd say the season after this coming one would be better.

[neophox]

I Think all the signings will come good. Also hope Rhodes, Rochina and DJ will score alot of goals this season with Taylor, King, Nunes, Judge running on the wings providing them with firepower. If we just had a Makele in defensive midfeld.

[roverandout]

im expecting a bottom half finish with bowyer gone by Christmas and some of you saying he should be given a full season just because he 'loves the club', we cant base bowyer credentials as the chosen one on a few decent results and some bad ones, I still think this appointment is a poor, cheap one and will come back to bite rovers on the arse. Also taking into account some mediocre signings, I said the same thing of berg and I was hammered for it. I know some of you will lambast me for this post but this is the way I see it and only time will tell.

[Guest Norbert]

Time will tell, but out of the complete car crash that was last season, Bowyer was the one bright spot. The one reason for hope. Who'd you have gone for as manager?

[JAL]

You have become irritatingly negative. No harm giving him a trial there are a lot of people praising him who unlike you have actually seen him play.

Most of the praise is for another AbdulRahman not this one.