[Archived] Jordan Rhodes

[LeChuck]

It's only because I like Rhodes and despise Kenny Miller that I'm gonna have to correct you, as it's the second time you've mentioned it.

Kenny Miller is no longer a Scottish international thank the lord almighty.

This isn't point scoring, but I felt compelled to correct you as a half decent manager wouldn't have Miller in the squad.

You're right though, he's currently behind Leigh Griffiths, and a fully fit Steven Fletcher.

I can't see that changing any time soon.

Fair enough. It was the case a few months ago wasn't it? Certainly around the time you played Wales.

Being behind Fletcher is fair enough, he's scored goals in the PL on a regular basis for a few years now.

No shame in behind Griffiths in the Scotland pecking order. It would be strange measure of deficiencies in Rhodes' game to suggest that it somehow to his detriment to be behind Griffiths at the moment. He was sensational for Hibs last season.

A £10 million striker of genuine PL quality wouldn't be behind someone like Leigh Griffiths, who is nowhere near £10m/PL quality. It sounds like he'll be playing League One football next year.

[thenodrog]

A £10 million striker of genuine PL quality wouldn't be behind someone like Leigh Griffiths, who is nowhere near £10m/PL quality. It sounds like he'll be playing League One football next year.

I don't know much about Griffiths or Scottish Sunday League stuff but that doesn't ring entirely true. If Strachan wants Scotland to play deep and play to a target man who can hold the ball up until the midfield get up in support then Rhodes is as much use as a chocolate tea pot.

Rem Sir Alf Ramsay didn't choose the 11 best players he chose 11 players best suited to his system.... and the rest is history. A tactic no England manager has employed since.... they stupidly prefer to let the press and sponsors select the team nowadays. These days a fat pay out early doors seems to be preferable to a place in legend.

[Tom]

Well I'm going to say thank you to Mercer on this one. I'm quick enough to give him stick when he gets it wrong so it's only fair that I give him credit this time. I had £10 on at 6/1 which paid for a trip to Cadbury World with my wife and daughter yesterday (well it will when skybet finally pay out!!!)

I was going to put a few bob on Coyle earlier as it was heavily rumoured from the start but didn't see the odds as worthwhile, ah well!

[beanie]

I do indeed - in fact, two clubs.

But given Batman's sentiments, it simply aint worth sharing.

And with that, I am off for a lazy few days.

Ohhh mercers Newcastle contacts are working again i feel remember when he told us Samba was def off to the toon and that Leon Best would never sign for Blackburn. Thats the quality of his insider knowledge so be fearful.

[LeChuck]

I don't know much about Griffiths or Scottish Sunday League stuff but that doesn't ring entirely true. If Strachan wants Scotland to play deep and play to a target man who can hold the ball up until the midfield get up in support then Rhodes is as much use as a chocolate tea pot.

Rem Sir Alf Ramsay didn't choose the 11 best players he chose 11 players best suited to his system.... and the rest is history. A tactic no England manager has employed since.... they stupidly prefer to let the press and sponsors select the team nowadays. These days a fat pay out early doors seems to be preferable to a place in legend.

I agree with your summary. The vast majority of PL clubs need strikers to do a similar job, which is why Rhodes will be playing Championship football next year.

I know plenty of people will jump on this, but goals aren't the most important thing for a striker anymore.

[yoda's brother]

I agree with your summary. The vast majority of PL clubs need strikers to do a similar job, which is why Rhodes will be playing Championship football next year.

I know plenty of people will jump on this, but goals aren't the most important thing for a striker anymore.

they are for rovers as nobody else can score

[Silas]

I agree with your summary. The vast majority of PL clubs need strikers to do a similar job, which is why Rhodes will be playing Championship football next year.

I know plenty of people will jump on this, but goals aren't the most important thing for a striker anymore.

Fernando, is that you?!

I know Roman isn't the brightest and made most of his money through brawn rather than brains, but even he isn't going to swallow that one.

[Stuart]

I know plenty of people will jump on this, but goals aren't the most important thing for a striker anymore.

Quite rightly too.

[Salgado Is A Hero]

Evidence would suggest he's right though.

Le Fondre was winning Player of the Month and still wouldn't start games.

Darren Bent has proved time and time again he can score goals in the Prem but couldn't start for a team in a relegation battle.

Mario Gomez scored 48 goals for club and country in 2011/12, as well as 42 the season before. He spent last season on the bench.

Danny Graham will start next season on the bench for Sunderland, if Di Canio doesn't get rid of him.

Here we go, this article explains it well.

"If you could travel back to the mid 90s and ask 100 football fans who the best finisher in the Premiership was, you’d find a majority telling you the answer was Robbie Fowler. He wasn’t tall, he wasn’t fast, he wasn’t strong and he wasn’t mobile, but if you gave him the ball, he would put it into the net with alarming regularity.

Looking across the Premiership today, it’s hard to identify any similar top-level players. There are some great goalscorers, but none as lacking in pace or skill as Fowler. The only strikers you would describe as a ‘great finishers’ are also blessed with speed, such as Fernando Torres, Jermain Defoe or Darren Bent. Other ‘out-and-out strikers’ like Bobby Zamora or Emile Heskey are in the side as much for their hold-up play as their goalscoring ability. It’s simply not enough to be a goalscorer any more, you have to contribute to the team’s overall game.

It’s incredible to think that Fowler is only 34 years of age – the same age as David Beckham. Beckham maintains his place in the England squad, while Fowler finds himself on the bench for North Queensland Fury in the Australian A-League. Fowler’s lack of fitness has played a part in his decline, but the truth is that he is simply a player left behind by the pace, movement and intelligence needed in the modern footballing game. His career as a top-level player was probably over at the age of just 27 when he signed for Kevin Keegan’s Manchester City in 2003. Is Michael Owen, post-injury and with little pace, a similar story? Perhaps, although Owen has at least adapted his game to become more of an all-rounder.

Despite how popular he was, you very rarely hear young players being described as ‘the new Robbie Fowler’ these days. That label was given briefly to Eduardo when he signed for Arsenal as an unknown left-footed striker with a tremendous goalscoring record, but Eduardo is a much more complete player than that, and has often played on the left of a forward three, something Fowler would never have been able to do.

Indeed, if you were to select one current Premiership player who is purely a finisher, it might well be Tim Cahill of Everton, and yet he plays as a midfielder, making late runs into the box.

Even Ruud van Nistelrooy, perhaps the classic goalpoacher and the third most-prolific Premiership striker ever in terms of goals per game, was happily dumped by Manchester United because he didn’t have the all-round game to feature in a top-level modern side. His goalscoring record was astonishing – 150 goals in 219 games, but the important statistics involve the peformance of the team. Manchester United won the league three times in a row in the three seasons before his arrival, and won the league three times in a row in the three seasons after he left. Whilst he was there? United won just one title in five years.

The striker as we knew him is now dead."

Van Nistelrooy has also never won the Champions League.

[Stuart]

I can well see the logic in forwards doing more than scoring goals but that extra work can never be more important than (or even replace) scoring goals.

If Rhodes had done more non-goalscoring work than scoring work we would have been relegated last season.

[Batman.]

Salgado, is that the same v.Nistelrooy who then left to join a Madrid team that hasn't won a title in three years, and then finished top scorer two seasons in a row as they won the title in both? Then, he got injured/ was sold and they didn't win the league again for three years.

The man was world class, and had much more to his game than goals.

[Batman.]

Also, noticed he did sod all for Holland other than score a goal every other game in 70 internationals.

[Salgado Is A Hero]

Yes the very same.

He was world-class no question. I don't really fully agree with what that journalist says in relation to him but I can kind of see he has a point.

You use the Real Madrid example, that journalist used the Man Utd one. Neither proves the point does it, but it's an interesting debate.

And what have Holland won recently? Similar scoring record to Mario Gomez for Germany. That's not the topic of discussion though.

[Batman.]

Yes the very same.

He was world-class no question. I don't really fully agree with what that journalist says in relation to him but I can kind of see he has a point.

You use the Real Madrid example, that journalist used the Man Utd one. Neither proves the point does it, but it's an interesting debate.

And what have Holland won recently? Similar scoring record to Mario Gomez for Germany. That's not the topic of discussion though.

Well, v. Nistelrooy played as a lone striker his entire career almost. I remember MOTD and Sky always spending about ten minutes per week creaming themselves over v. Nistelrooy's contribution and off the ball work. The point that journalist was trying to make was completely obliterated when trying to use Ruud v. Nistelrooy as an example to make it.

Also, Mario Gomez is also a top, top player who offers much more than just goals. This is why upon leaving the best team in the world at the moment he'll end up somewhere like Juventus, whereas fat Bobby Fowler ended up at Dirty Leeds. I understand that the really top world class strikers have more to their game than goals, but goals are still the number one requirement, even for the top teams. See case 'Fernando Torres.'

At our level, goals are the main thing you want from your centre forward.

[Majiball]

Spain can win tournements without one.

[thenodrog]

I can well see the logic in forwards doing more than scoring goals but that extra work can never be more important than (or even replace) scoring goals.

If Rhodes had done more non-goalscoring work than scoring work we would have been relegated last season.

If Rhodes had added the other stuff to his game we'd all be getting over loising him and talking about his replacement now.

[Batman.]

Spain can win tournements without one.

Thought you were ignoring me Gandolf? Regardless, that's a stunning argument from somebody who knows more about football than the rest of the people on here put together. Bravo.

[Stuart]

If Rhodes had added the other stuff to his game we'd all be getting over loising him and talking about his replacement now.

Agreed but that's not what I said.

[Salgado Is A Hero]

Well, v. Nistelrooy played as a lone striker his entire career almost. I remember MOTD and Sky always spending about ten minutes per week creaming themselves over v. Nistelrooy's contribution and off the ball work. The point that journalist was trying to make was completely obliterated when trying to use Ruud v. Nistelrooy as an example to make it.

Also, Mario Gomez is also a top, top player who offers much more than just goals. This is why upon leaving the best team in the world at the moment he'll end up somewhere like Juventus, whereas fat Bobby Fowler ended up at Dirty Leeds. I understand that the really top world class strikers have more to their game than goals, but goals are still the number one requirement, even for the top teams. See case 'Fernando Torres.'

At our level, goals are the main thing you want from your centre forward.

Personally I wouldn't go that far but fine. Like I said, I wouldn't put Van Nistelrooy in the goal poacher category but I could see where he's coming from.

We'll have to disagree on Gomez, he barely does anything outside the box imo. He'll go to a Juventus because he can guarantee at least 30 goals a season. They play two up top anyway because they play three at the back.

Back to Jordan Rhodes, here's all his goals for us last season. That one against Derby was quality.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gy2zkGuh6o&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[T4E]

There's some finishing in that montage that hasn't been seen at Ewood in the last 16 years before JR signed.

[Stuart]

There's some finishing in that montage that hasn't been seen at Ewood in the last 16 years before JR signed.

I think Bellamy was as good, if not better, with his finishing.

[Batman.]

Bellamy was top class, but I always felt he wasn't the most natural finisher. I don't think he ever managed more than the amount he got for us with any other club?

[speeeeeeedie]

There's some finishing in that montage that hasn't been seen at Ewood in the last 16 years before JR signed.

JR? Jason Roberts?

Harping back to the lone striker argument. Everton won the league in 1985. They bought Gary Lineker. He scored about 40 league goals in 85-86. Liverpool won the league. Everton sold him to Barcelona at the end of the season. Everton won the league in 1987. Lineker's career medal haul; 1 FA cup.

Van Horse was a fantastic goal scorer but I don't think he could play up top by himself today.

[Tom]

I think Bellamy was as good, if not better, with his finishing.

I'd also say Yakubu was

That first goal he scored for us I can't think of many other strikers we've had in recent memory that would have the guile to put that away the way he did he also scored a few more belters and rarely missed, the song feed the yak and he will score was rarely wrong in his time here

If Rhodes can add to his game the qualities the Yak had at leading the line there will be no stopping him

[Andy]

"If you could travel back to the mid 90s and ask 100 football fans who the best finisher in the Premiership was, you’d find a majority telling you the answer was Robbie Fowler. He wasn’t tall, he wasn’t fast, he wasn’t strong and he wasn’t mobile, but if you gave him the ball, he would put it into the net with alarming regularity.

Of course you would.

If you were mildly retarded.

Big Al was head and shoulders above the rest in the mid-90's.