[Archived] Rubén Rochina

[thenodrog]

I like Rochina. Would love to see a midfield of King, Evans, Cairney, Rochina with Dunn behind Rhodes and Lowe replacing Kane at RB. Hanley back for Killy, Kean replaced in goal and we have the makings of an exciting team that could challemge.

Rochina and Dunn need to share the same duties. Why would you move a guy in good form to RB and leave 5 players patrolling midfield who dont possess a decent tackle between them?

[Rover_Shaun]

Lowe couldn't tackle his way out of a paper bag

[Neal]

As is building up average players with no end product purely because it's been that long since anyone saw them the memory is playing tricks

Lauding Rochina as the messiah shows how far we have fallen

Can't say I agree. Rochina when playing in the reserves final at Old Trafford and scoring a unreal goal was enough for Alex Ferguson to comment to Steve Ke*n how good he is.

If he'd come from some nothing club in South America like Vilanueva I could take your point. This lad is different.

[den]

5 goals & 3 assists in 11 starts is the truth. Anything else is opinion.

To have an opinion, you have to watch. Guess that's why you go for stats?

[Doug]

Rochina and Dunn need to share the same duties. Why would you move a guy in good form to RB and leave 5 players patrolling midfield who dont possess a decent tackle between them?

You have seen our usual right back?

[Amo]

To have an opinion, you have to watch. Guess that's why you go for stats?

At least have the decency to admit you're wrong.

I do love the mindset of some fans on here, though. Rochina's a very technically-gifted player and our side will be stronger to have him = "he's the new Messi and will singlehandedly get us promoted". Trying to have a rational debate on here is like trying to catch lightning in a bottle.

[Al]

If that were true Neal, then you would have to explain why he can't hold down a starting place. I don't think he did anything on loan last season, did he?

It's because bafflingly he has always been played out of position by everybody except the current manager.

[Neal]

It's because bafflingly he has always been played out of position by everybody except the current manager.

That too.

[den]

At least have the decency to admit you're wrong.I do love the mindset of some fans on here, though. Rochina's a very technically-gifted player and our side will be stronger to have him = "he's the new Messi and will singlehandedly get us promoted". Trying to have a rational debate on here is like trying to catch lightning in a bottle.

Wrong about what Amo?

He's technically got everything he needs. However, to argue that he's been one of our better players to date is just baffling. If you had actually seen him, the debate might be better.

[Amo]

And note the managers he's worked under so far read: Kean, Berg, & Appleton. Any of them could make a sow's ear out of a silk purse.

Matt Jansen only showed glimpses of skill in fits and starts under Brian Kidd, and did little under Parkes, who dropped him and was preparing to sell him prior to Souness arriving. It wasn't until a proper manager took over that Jansen was able to flourish and realize his potential. People shouldn't be so quick to dismiss Rochina.

[den]

And note the managers he's worked under so far read: Kean, Berg, & Appleton. Any of them could make a sow's ear out of a silk purse.Matt Jansen only showed glimpses of skill in fits and starts under Brian Kidd, and did little under Parkes, who dropped him and was preparing to sell him prior to Souness arriving. It wasn't until a proper manager took over that Jansen was able to flourish and realize his potential. People shouldn't be so quick to dismiss Rochina.

You can't read, can you.

I've said that technically he's superb. He's exciting to watch. He can score goals that others can't. BUT - he hasn't done enough yet to earn a regular starting place, and that in a poor team. In my opinion, some fans overrate what he's ACTUALLY done so far.

[DE.]

You can't read, can you.

I've said that technically he's superb. He's exciting to watch. He can score goals that others can't. BUT - he hasn't done enough yet to earn a regular starting place, and that in a poor team. In my opinion, some fans overrate what he's ACTUALLY done so far.

I agree with this. Rochina has the ability, absolutely no question there - but whether he can apply it consistently remains to be seen. There's no guarantee he'll make the team better when he comes back because there's no past history to suggest he makes us better on a regular basis through his being in the team.

Whether it's his fault or not is a different matter entirely, but Ruben still has it all to prove and I think we all have to hope he can live up to some of his potential. We need something else right now.

[Amo]

You can't read, can you.

I've said that technically he's superb. He's exciting to watch. He can score goals that others can't. BUT - he hasn't done enough yet to earn a regular starting place, and that in a poor team. In my opinion, some fans overrate what he's ACTUALLY done so far.

Then who are you playing ahead of him, den? Dunn? Good luck with that. And don't reply with the "I'm not the manager" garble because you've seen fit to drop Rochina from the starting 11.

[den]

Then who are you playing ahead of him, den? Dunn? Good luck with that. And don't reply with the "I'm not the manager" garble because you've seen fit to drop Rochina from the starting 11.

I'm not against starting him Amo. You're misunderstanding my point. He's not done enough YET. Trouble is, he's not shown any signs that he will do.

[thenodrog]

It's because bafflingly he has always been played out of position by everybody

I've just read the Jake Kean thread and you could have posted that on there.

And note the managers he's worked under so far read: Kean, Berg, & Appleton. Any of them could make a sow's ear out of a silk purse.

Matt Jansen only showed glimpses of skill in fits and starts under Brian Kidd, and did little under Parkes, who dropped him and was preparing to sell him prior to Souness arriving. It wasn't until a proper manager took over that Jansen was able to flourish and realize his potential. People shouldn't be so quick to dismiss Rochina.

Indeed. Benitez got Torres up a gear and Mourhino seems to have got him into overdrive.

[Al]

I've just read the Jake Kean thread and you could have posted that on there.

You've lost me there Gordon. Too subtle for me. What point are you trying to make?

[thenodrog]

You've lost me there Gordon. Too subtle for me. What point are you trying to make?

Attempted humour Al. Dunno what position is Kean's best but it isn't between the sticks.

[Al]

Attempted humour Al. Dunno what position is Kean's best but it isn't between the sticks.

Sorry. Too slow.

[Stuart]

At least have the decency to admit you're wrong.

I do love the mindset of some fans on here, though. Rochina's a very technically-gifted player and our side will be stronger to have him = "he's the new Messi and will singlehandedly get us promoted". Trying to have a rational debate on here is like trying to catch lightning in a bottle.

I'm confused now. Given your first sentence, is the bit in bold hyperbole or not?

[Amo]

I'm not against starting him Amo. You're misunderstanding my point. He's not done enough YET. Trouble is, he's not shown any signs that he will do.

Stop edging, Denzel. If he hasn't done enough to start "YET", then who's keeping him out and why?

I'm confused now. Given your first sentence, is the bit in bold hyperbole or not?

Nah, I think it probably would be easier.

[den]

Stop edging, Denzel. If he hasn't done enough to start "YET", then who's keeping him out and why?

What kind of stupid question is that? Better ask the managers that one, or better still, go watch him and see for yourself.

[Amo]

What kind of stupid question is that? Better ask the managers that one, or better still, go watch him and see for yourself.

Like Bowyer, who started him in our first game of the season, y'mean?

I give up with you. If you're in a position to tell us that Rochina doesn't deserve to start, then simple logic dictates that someone else does. If it's Dunn, then how long will he grace us with his presence? You can't make judgements on player selection and then when someone calls you out on them, hide behind the "I'm not the manager!" excuse.

[47er]

I suspect Den would be happy if you did give up with him.

[den]

I suspect Den would be happy if you did give up with him.

Absolutely 47er. It's bloody murder. The post above says it all really.

[Amo]

My bad. I expected you to be able to defend your arguments.

Concession accepted.