[Archived] Upcoming scandal?

[LeChuck]

Abbey, here's a list of countries that use capital punishment:

* Afghanistan
* Antigua and Barbuda
* Bahamas
* Bahrain
* Bangladesh
* Barbados
* Belarus
* Belize
* Botswana
* Burundi
* Cameroon
* Chad
* China (People's Republic)
* Comoros
* Congo (Democratic Republic)
* Cuba
* Dominica
* Egypt
* Equatorial Guinea
* Eritrea
* Ethiopia
* Gabon
* Ghana
* Guatemala
* Guinea
* Guyana
* India
* Indonesia
* Iran
* Iraq
* Jamaica
* Japan
* Jordan
* Korea, North
* Korea, South
* Kuwait
* Laos
* Lebanon
* Lesotho
* Libya
* Malawi
* Malaysia
* Mongolia
* Nigeria
* Oman
* Pakistan
* Palestinian Authority
* Qatar
* St. Kitts and Nevis
* St. Lucia
* St. Vincent and the Grenadines
* Saudi Arabia
* Sierra Leone
* Singapore
* Somalia
* Sudan
* Swaziland
* Syria
* Taiwan
* Tajikistan
* Tanzania
* Thailand
* Trinidad and Tobago
* Uganda
* United Arab Emirates
* United States
* Vietnam
* Yemen
* Zambia
* Zimbabwe

Civilised, progressive societies don't have capital punishment for very good reasons. I wouldn't live in a country that used it, neither would a lot of people.

There's is some irony in that your view on capital punishment seems to fit the countries whose culture you detest. Western culture doesn't tolerate it. Maybe you have more in common with those pesky Muslims than you realise.

[jim mk2]

The stand-out nation in that list is the US. I'm sure Republicans and US patriots are pleased to be classed in the same bracket as Iran and Iraq.

[jim mk2]

  On 28/06/2013 at 15:39, LeChuck said:

A.

There's is some irony in that your view on capital punishment seems to fit the countries whose culture you detest. Western culture doesn't tolerate it. Maybe you have more in common with those pesky Muslims than you realise.

Very good. Theno too.

[ABBEY]

you must be heartless if you wouldnt want your childrens killers hanging .

[gumboots]

Why heartless? I don't know how I'd feel, but, from situations I've been in, I do know that you don't always feel in reality the way you think you'll feel in theory. I used to be very pro hanging until I thought about it later in life and realised that actually I didn't like the idea of it at all. I understand why people feel it's right, but i equally know that I couldn't vote in support of it.

[Paul]

  On 28/06/2013 at 14:49, ABBEY said:

So toppers I've no idea if you have kids or not.So I ask this to each and every one of you and dont just go for the PC answer either....

IF SOMEONE RAPED AND KILLED YOU CHILDREN , WOULD YOU WANT THEM HUNG FOR IT?

I would and if they couldnt I would try to get to them in court.

I really can't understand how any normal parent would feel different.

Aside from Amarillo's list above you effectively say you believe in "an eye for an eye." You do realise for some Muslims this is a fundamental of Sharia law?

Aside from this the issue with capital punishment is there is never absolute certainty of a person's guilt. You are able to accept innocent people will be executed along with the guilty?

[ABBEY]

if brady had killed my kids i would want him dead .

[jim mk2]

Looks like you're living in the wrong country. Take your pick from Mongolia or Lesotho - they might even have a BRFC supporters branch.

[Mike E]

If there was absolute certainty of guilt, I'd be all for it. Unfortunately that isn't the way of the world. If there was a vote I don't think I could actually vote for it, knowing it WILL lead to innocent deaths.

[Guest Norbert]

The biggest reason I'm against the death penalty is that if it is carried out, and the wrong person is found guilty it is a bit late to say sorry and offer a pardon.

[ABBEY]

  On 28/06/2013 at 21:53, jim mk2 said:

Looks like you're living in the wrong country. Take your pick from Mongolia or Lesotho - they might

even have a BRFC supporters branch.

Aye ok

[thenodrog]

  On 28/06/2013 at 14:13, Amarillo said:

Because then you set a precedent of capital punishment, which from a practical point of view simply doesn't work.

Well it does stop them doing it again and gives relatives and friends closure. But then again who the hell in our Justice system ever considers them or cares what they think beyond offering some half arsed psychological help available?

[thenodrog]

  On 28/06/2013 at 15:39, LeChuck said:

Civilised, progressive societies don't have capital punishment for very good reasons. I wouldn't live in a country that used it, neither would a lot of people.

Why? Do you kill people often?

However Le Chuck ..... "neither would a lot of people" what a strange statement that is given the countries named. I shouldn't be at all suprised to find that at least 75% of the worlds population is contained in your list

in that list.

  On 28/06/2013 at 16:47, ABBEY said:

you must be heartless inhuman if you wouldnt want your childrens killers hanging .

That fits better Abbey.

[thenodrog]

  On 28/06/2013 at 17:06, gumboots said:

Why heartless? I don't know how I'd feel, but, from situations I've been in, I do know that you don't always feel in reality the way you think you'll feel in theory. I used to be very pro hanging until I thought about it later in life and realised that actually I didn't like the idea of it at all. I understand why people feel it's right, but i equally know that I couldn't vote in support of it.

OK gumboots ........ How about if one of your family was murdered by someone who had murdered previously, served their sentence and been released?

The solution to all this is quite simple. Let the families of the victims decide the punishment from a short list of options. A solution surely acceptable to bleeding hearts and normal human beings alike .

[Amo]

  On 29/06/2013 at 10:11, thenodrog said:

Well it does stop them doing it again and gives relatives and friends closure. But then again who the hell in our Justice system ever considers them or cares what they think beyond offering some half arsed psychological help available?

There's no proof that the death penalty gives family's closure. The taking of one life does not give back the one they've lost. In the US, it can actually take decades before the criminal is finally sentenced to death, during which time the victims' family has to make a number of court appearances. This long, drawn out legal process can be emotionally exhausting for the families and make it even harder for them to move on.

[Paul]

  On 29/06/2013 at 10:30, thenodrog said:

The solution to all this is quite simple. Let the families of the victims decide the punishment from a short list of options. A solution surely acceptable to bleeding hearts and normal human beings alike .

So that's two people supporting an aspect of Sharia law. I thought it was for backward people living in the Stone Age?

[thenodrog]

  On 29/06/2013 at 11:23, Paul said:

So that's two people supporting an aspect of Sharia law. I thought it was for backward people living in the Stone Age?

The death penalty for murder has been around a lot longer than sharia law..

btw two? I think you live in a bubble.

[Paul]

  On 29/06/2013 at 15:10, thenodrog said:

btw two? I think you live in a bubble.

I was referring to the thread as you well know.

[LeChuck]

  On 29/06/2013 at 10:22, thenodrog said:

Why? Do you kill people often?

However Le Chuck ..... "neither would a lot of people" what a strange statement that is given the countries named. I shouldn't be at all suprised to find that at least 75% of the worlds population is contained in your list.

They're almost exclusively lesser developed countries. The vast majority of inhabitants don't have the freedom to move to other countries because of economic reasons.

Honestly, if they reintroduced the death penalty here I would move. Not because of any threat to me, I just wouldn't want to participate in a society that practised it.

[ABBEY]

  On 29/06/2013 at 11:23, Paul said:

So that's two people supporting an aspect of Sharia law. I thought it was for backward people living in the Stone Age?

Sharia law ... Yay lets beat women

Veils for all

Veils for all

[Paul]

ABBEY the point is you have been advocating capital punishment or stating you would try to get to them yourself. Basically this is an eye for an eye which is a fundamental of Sharia law.

Thenodrog advocates letting the victim's family chose the punishment. Another aspect of Sharia.

Elsewhere you have both expressed strong opinions about Islam and Muslims yet here you are calling for UK society to act in a similar fashion.

Do you not think there is some confusion here? Or is just the bits that suit your views?

[gumboots]

  On 29/06/2013 at 10:30, thenodrog said:

OK gumboots ........ How about if one of your family was murdered by someone who had murdered previously, served their sentence and been released?

The solution to all this is quite simple. Let the families of the victims decide the punishment from a short list of options. A solution surely acceptable to bleeding hearts and normal human beings alike .

Of course I'd be angry,devastated,heartbroken and any other word you want to suggest but killing the person who killed them wouldn't bring them back. I honestly don't know how I'd react, but I do know how I've reacted in certain situations that have seriously affected those I care about and the one thing that's helped me has been not letting those actions bring me down to their level. I just don't know and so I really wouldn't want legalised killing of others, whoever they are and whatever they've done, carried out in my name.

[Stuart]

  On 29/06/2013 at 17:49, Paul said:

ABBEY the point is you have been advocating capital punishment or stating you would try to get to them yourself. Basically this is an eye for an eye which is a fundamental of Sharia law.

Thenodrog advocates letting the victim's family chose the punishment. Another aspect of Sharia.

Elsewhere you have both expressed strong opinions about Islam and Muslims yet here you are calling for UK society to act in a similar fashion.

Do you not think there is some confusion here? Or is just the bits that suit your views?

To be fair, you are putting your own goalposts up there, Paul. Just because someone supports capital punishment doesn't mean that they want, or support, all of sharia law. Maybe there are some elements which we could learn from - but they are definitely separate standpoints.

For instance, this country used to have the death penalty but wasn't under sharia law.

Now, the argument for getting rid of it - for the non-religious - is that we might make a mistake, collar the wrong perp, no chance for appeal. Surely though, in cases like Brady, there are exceptions? He just seems to continually taunt the families of those children he killed and will probably out-live them all. A one-off crime of passion, life in prison; a serial killing paedophile, without remorse, who continues to pose a threat to the general public, time to "let them go" - humanely, if you like. In the same way as would happen to a dog who mauled a child.

I can't see a decent (non-religious) argument for paying millions to keep him alive (and secure).

[DE.]

It costs more to use the death penalty so let's not bring costs into it.

[ABBEY]

  On 29/06/2013 at 17:49, Paul said:

ABBEY the point is you have been advocating capital punishment or stating you would try to get to them yourself. Basically this is an eye for an eye which is a fundamental of Sharia law.

Thenodrog advocates letting the victim's family chose the punishment. Another aspect of Sharia.

Elsewhere you have both expressed strong opinions about Islam and Muslims yet here you are calling for UK society to act in a similar fashion.

Do you not think there is some confusion here? Or is just the bits that suit your views?

to put it politly paul what a load of rubbish...WHAT THE HELL HAS IAN BRADY KILLING CHILDREN GOT TO DO WITH MUSLIMS?

THIS POST RANKS ALONGSIDE SAXO FOR TRYING TO GET A RISE.

  On 29/06/2013 at 18:43, DE. said:

It costs more to use the death penalty so let's not bring costs into it.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_trksid=p2047675.m570.l1313.TR9.TRC0.A0.XTOW+ROPE&_nkw=TOW+ROPE&_sacat=0&_from=R40

£3 ..GUILTY ..BACK TO JAIL AND TOSS NOOSE ON .