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[Archived] The Championship 2013/14

Stuart

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Audax Champions League

Audax

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Playoffs, 1 in 4 chance to go up if a club makes it and Reading, Forest, Derby, QPR have all certainly been there already and playoffs is pins and needles time to begin with. Derby has McLaren, who knows? It looks like they are on a bit of a roll now and are in touching distance with automatic promotion.

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longsiders1882 Champions League

longsiders1882

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Playoffs, 1 in 4 chance to go up if a club makes it and Reading, Forest, Derby, QPR have all certainly been there already and playoffs is pins and needles time to begin with. Derby has McLaren, who knows? It looks like they are on a bit of a roll now and are in touching distance with automatic promotion.

Hmmm and Burnley have also been there - with some success over the years.

Just a quick outsiders view on the 'what happened etc'. I know I've said this before but I don't mind being boring. As a fan of Burnley I had to watch through gritted teeth with a grudging admiration for the way John Williams and his team ran your club. Be it luck or design he bought and sold players at the right time and doing so largely not only covered (or at least minimised) your losses whilst also keeping you reasonably competitive - the odd season aside you seemed to largely be top at least 10 or 12 each season. The motivation I don't know or understand but the root cause, as I see it, is the dismantling of an excellent off field team - starting with Sam and ending with Williams himself going. If it had been my club I'd consider it at best gross naivety, at worst border line criminal dereliction of duty.

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Audax Champions League

Audax

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Hmmm and Burnley have also been there - with some success over the years.

Just a quick outsiders view on the 'what happened etc'. I know I've said this before but I don't mind being boring. As a fan of Burnley I had to watch through gritted teeth with a grudging admiration for the way John Williams and his team ran your club. Be it luck or design he bought and sold players at the right time and doing so largely not only covered (or at least minimised) your losses whilst also keeping you reasonably competitive - the odd season aside you seemed to largely be top at least 10 or 12 each season. The motivation I don't know or understand but the root cause, as I see it, is the dismantling of an excellent off field team - starting with Sam and ending with Williams himself going. If it had been my club I'd consider it at best gross naivety, at worst border line criminal dereliction of duty.

I did not mention Burnley because it seems they have been in 1st or 2nd all year. I've followed the conversation how some have said they would not last in the automatic promotion place so who knows? And currently, they are 4 points clear of 3rd.

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Silas Champions League

Silas

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I think it pivots around the Bolton match in Dec and not the actual take over. I cant be bothered looking it up silas but if we had won (and we deserved to) we'd have gone 7th /8th. We lost and were 11th when they sacked Allardyce the a day or two after which imo was the real turning point in our demise as a Premier League team.

Yeah, I get that Theno, and remember it well. Was so excited before the game, we would have gone level with 6th place if we had won and would only have gone into 7th on goal difference. And you're right, we deserved it, if I remember rightly they went the length of the pitch in the final minute for holden to bang in a screamer and it broke my friggin heart. (apologies if wrong on that recollection.)

I just think the timing of it all (i.e takeover, BFS sacking) skews the bigger picture. In that sort of 5 week period we played Wigan, Newcastle, Villa, Wolves, and Bolton with 3 of them being at home. All those sides were pretty much considered bottom half teams that season. So it was basically our best run of fixtures in the entire season and gave us a slightly false league position.

It doesn't make a massive amount of difference to what Venky's did I know. It's just the whole "top 10" club and I even hear people saying "European challengers" stuff that gets me. Because it seems delusional to me. The landscape of the Premier was changing massively at the time and we were going to struggle to compete regardless. Our future was going to be bottom half/relegation battle whoever owned us so the notion that we got knocked off this lofty perch is romanticism at best. And it seems to grow as time moves forward. I get the impression in 10 years time people will be telling their kids how Venky's came along and ruined everything just as we were beginning to compete for the title again!

P.S. In terms of can't be bothered looking things up, I don't know if I get in trouble for this in here, but I found a good site last month - statto.com - that lists league tables at any point during the season. Found it quite interesting. No I don't work for them, and sorry mods if that isn't allowed. Just thought it was a good site to share with fellow fans.

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Leonard Venkhater World Cup

Leonard Venkhater

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Yeah, I get that Theno, and remember it well. Was so excited before the game, we would have gone level with 6th place if we had won and would only have gone into 7th on goal difference. And you're right, we deserved it, if I remember rightly they went the length of the pitch in the final minute for holden to bang in a screamer and it broke my friggin heart. (apologies if wrong on that recollection.)

I just think the timing of it all (i.e takeover, BFS sacking) skews the bigger picture. In that sort of 5 week period we played Wigan, Newcastle, Villa, Wolves, and Bolton with 3 of them being at home. All those sides were pretty much considered bottom half teams that season. So it was basically our best run of fixtures in the entire season and gave us a slightly false league position.

It doesn't make a massive amount of difference to what Venky's did I know. It's just the whole "top 10" club and I even hear people saying "European challengers" stuff that gets me. Because it seems delusional to me. The landscape of the Premier was changing massively at the time and we were going to struggle to compete regardless. Our future was going to be bottom half/relegation battle whoever owned us so the notion that we got knocked off this lofty perch is romanticism at best. And it seems to grow as time moves forward. I get the impression in 10 years time people will be telling their kids how Venky's came along and ruined everything just as we were beginning to compete for the title again!

P.S. In terms of can't be bothered looking things up, I don't know if I get in trouble for this in here, but I found a good site last month - statto.com - that lists league tables at any point during the season. Found it quite interesting. No I don't work for them, and sorry mods if that isn't allowed. Just thought it was a good site to share with fellow fans.

Good post. I had decided that we were going down sooner rather than later with the Trust's disinvestment. But I am sure we could have stayed around long enough to pick up the vast increase in prize money. The timing of it all is particularly difficult to swallow...

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Parsonblue

Parsonblue

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The key point Silas is that if you are in the Premier League you have a better chance of finishing in the top ten than if you are mid-table in the Championship. Whatever you may think might have happened the fact remains that the period between Souness and Big Sam was a very successful one for this club. The Rao family destroyed that with their complete incompetence. We are now a mid table Championship club with a huge debts. The season before the lunes from Pune arrived we finished ten in the Premier League - a fact. We are now mid table in the Championship - a fact. Being anywhere in the bottom half of the Premiership is far more rewarding financially than finishing anywhere in the Championship, let alone mid-table. As for suggesting that we would have been relegated irrespective of the Rao family arriving - that is mere speculation. The Rao family took a well run Premier League club and turned it into a middling Championship club. I'm not sure how you can look at it any other way.

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Leonard Venkhater World Cup

Leonard Venkhater

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The key point Silas is that if you are in the Premier League you have a better chance of finishing in the top ten than if you are mid-table in the Championship. Whatever you may think might have happened the fact remains that the period between Souness and Big Sam was a very successful one for this club. The Rao family destroyed that with their complete incompetence. We are now a mid table Championship club with a huge debts. The season before the lunes from Pune arrived we finished ten in the Premier League - a fact. We are now mid table in the Championship - a fact. Being anywhere in the bottom half of the Premiership is far more rewarding financially than finishing anywhere in the Championship, let alone mid-table. As for suggesting that we would have been relegated irrespective of the Rao family arriving - that is mere speculation. The Rao family took a well run Premier League club and turned it into a middling Championship club. I'm not sure how you can look at it any other way.

Oh I do agree it was only speculation. Ironically, in my unease at the take over,( "didn't look/feel right"..Dave Whelan) I actually consoled myself that we would be going down without them. It could almost be funny now!!! The point is we were a well established top flight club. All we required was a little investment but, instead, we were dismantled.

I also agree that the exact position we were in the league is irrelevant to the crime that these undeserving owners and their parasites have committed.

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Silas Champions League

Silas

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Does it matter what position Ffs they have raped , ruined and bled the club dry .. The point remains the same we were a well established top flight club .

ALL of them .

The key point Silas is that if you are in the Premier League you have a better chance of finishing in the top ten than if you are mid-table in the Championship. Whatever you may think might have happened the fact remains that the period between Souness and Big Sam was a very successful one for this club. The Rao family destroyed that with their complete incompetence. We are now a mid table Championship club with a huge debts. The season before the lunes from Pune arrived we finished ten in the Premier League - a fact. We are now mid table in the Championship - a fact. Being anywhere in the bottom half of the Premiership is far more rewarding financially than finishing anywhere in the Championship, let alone mid-table. As for suggesting that we would have been relegated irrespective of the Rao family arriving - that is mere speculation. The Rao family took a well run Premier League club and turned it into a middling Championship club. I'm not sure how you can look at it any other way.

Oh I do agree it was only speculation. Ironically, in my unease at the take over,( "didn't look/feel right"..Dave Whelan) I actually consoled myself that we would be going down without them. It could almost be funny now!!! The point is we were a well established top flight club. All we required was a little investment but, instead, we were dismantled.

I also agree that the exact position we were in the league is irrelevant to the crime that these undeserving owners and their parasites have committed.

Look folks, I'm not trying to rattle cages, and I know the whole Venky lover/Venky hater snore saga has been done to death.

It's just a major bugbear of mine so have put it out there. The above bold highlighted examples are perfect illustrations of what we were, and why what those morons did is so sad.

You may say, what difference does it make what postion we were etc etc, well to me it does. Might sound slightly sanctimonious but I am all about honestly, and for me calling us a top 10/ european club is not honest. I don't think we were, and I don't think you would find any neutrals who viewed us that way. It is done and said to slightly exaggerate our fall and therefore heap more scorn upon the Venky's. Whilst I'm all for that, I much prefer to leave the lying/ distorting of the truth to them and their conveyor belt of scumbag employees/business associates - allegedly.

That old tagline has been quoted for years now, and happened to be repeated various times again this week and I just couldn't help myself. Like I say, I have a thing about it from some reason, probably because I think us fans should tell it how it is. It's not a personal attack on anyone as half our fans seem to use it. Probably why it bugs me. Anyway, have said my piece and will stop boring you all with it now.

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Leonard Venkhater World Cup

Leonard Venkhater

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Look folks, I'm not trying to rattle cages, and I know the whole Venky lover/Venky hater snore saga has been done to death.

It's just a major bugbear of mine so have put it out there. The above bold highlighted examples are perfect illustrations of what we were, and why what those morons did is so sad.

You may say, what difference does it make what postion we were etc etc, well to me it does. Might sound slightly sanctimonious but I am all about honestly, and for me calling us a top 10/ european club is not honest. I don't think we were, and I don't think you would find any neutrals who viewed us that way. It is done and said to slightly exaggerate our fall and therefore heap more scorn upon the Venky's. Whilst I'm all for that, I much prefer to leave the lying/ distorting of the truth to them and their conveyor belt of scumbag employees/business associates - allegedly.

That old tagline has been quoted for years now, and happened to be repeated various times again this week and I just couldn't help myself. Like I say, I have a thing about it from some reason, probably because I think us fans should tell it how it is. It's not a personal attack on anyone as half our fans seem to use it. Probably why it bugs me. Anyway, have said my piece and will stop boring you all with it now.

Yeah. Just the romance of old wars...a bit of poetic licence from the vanquished to romanticise where we were at etc. I guess that's why the vanquished always had the best songs...

I agree the Premier League was changing and our struggle was only going to get harder.. And, like you say, it does not minimise what the b***s have done.

I understand your point. Nothing wrong with an honest appraisal, even if it doesn't make for a moving song around the campfire!

Interestingly, I grew up with an inaccuracy the other way around...it said Rovers went downhill after the 1960 FA cup final. I later saw league tables in 63/4 that shot that saying out of the water.

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Parsonblue

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Interestingly, I grew up with an inaccuracy the other way around...it said Rovers went downhill after the 1960 FA cup final. I later saw league tables in 63/4 that shot that saying out of the water.

In terms of support it's quite correct that things went downhill after 1960. The events surrounding ticket distribution led many thousands to desert the club. In many ways 1963/64 was the watershed for it was during that season, when we were battling near the top, that we sold Fred Pickering to title rivals Everton. After that the decline was quite quick with relegation from the top flight following in 1965/66. We were then exiled from football's top table for 25 years and we could easily be about to embark on a similar period in the wilderness. I think it's way so many supporters, particularly ones like myself who witnessed that decline in the 1960s, are so upset with the way in which the Rao family tossed away Premier League status. It's not that easy to get back - just ask North End who have now spent over half a century outside of the top division following their relegation in 1960!

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darrenrover World Cup

darrenrover

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One thing that's not in doubt is if Venky's had left the managerial infrastructure well alone (I'm not a SA fan btw) and bestowed the level of investment the club enjoyed in the 2012/13 close season in January 2012 instead, we wouldn't have been relegated.

Best laid plans of mice and men.

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thenodrog World Cup

thenodrog

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One thing that's not in doubt is if Venky's had left the managerial infrastructure well alone (I'm not a SA fan btw) and bestowed the level of investment the club enjoyed in the 2012/13 close season in January 2012 instead, we wouldn't have been relegated.

Best laid plans of mice and men.

Exactly. We had an established Premier league set up and that in itself promoted teams struggle to compete with. No chance of competing with the moneybags clubs of course but we had a few recent forays into Europe, and had become an established middle third club as have much 'bigger' clubs like Villa, Newcastle, Everton and WHU. I wonder if their fans moan as much as ours?
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yoda's brother Uefa Europa League

yoda's brother

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Look folks, I'm not trying to rattle cages, and I know the whole Venky lover/Venky hater snore saga has been done to death.

It's just a major bugbear of mine so have put it out there. The above bold highlighted examples are perfect illustrations of what we were, and why what those morons did is so sad.

You may say, what difference does it make what postion we were etc etc, well to me it does. Might sound slightly sanctimonious but I am all about honestly, and for me calling us a top 10/ european club is not honest. I don't think we were, and I don't think you would find any neutrals who viewed us that way. It is done and said to slightly exaggerate our fall and therefore heap more scorn upon the Venky's. Whilst I'm all for that, I much prefer to leave the lying/ distorting of the truth to them and their conveyor belt of scumbag employees/business associates - allegedly.

That old tagline has been quoted for years now, and happened to be repeated various times again this week and I just couldn't help myself. Like I say, I have a thing about it from some reason, probably because I think us fans should tell it how it is. It's not a personal attack on anyone as half our fans seem to use it. Probably why it bugs me. Anyway, have said my piece and will stop boring you all with it now.

who mentioned europe ? must have missed that.

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darrenrover World Cup

darrenrover

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Exactly. We had an established Premier league set up and that in itself promoted teams struggle to compete with. No chance of competing with the moneybags clubs of course but we had a few recent forays into Europe, and had become an established middle third club as have much 'bigger' clubs like Villa, Newcastle, Everton and WHU. I wonder if their fans moan as much as ours?

Glad you concur Theno, the Malaysian idiot then proceeded to saddle an additional £25 million debt on the club whilst aiding and abetting Kean with his exit strategy.

As a point in question, is anyone aware that his £8k a week is off the payroll yet?

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perthblue02 World Cup

perthblue02

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I think an awful lot of damage had been done and massive expense occurred before Singh trapped up and Dastardly and Muttley were reigned in. The venkymob were mugged by that duo.

The flood gates might have been closed once the majority of the scum exited the limelight but would not surprise me one bit if there was still and income stream winding its way through sunnier climates before ending up in North London

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speeeeeeedie

speeeeeeedie

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In terms of support it's quite correct that things went downhill after 1960. The events surrounding ticket distribution led many thousands to desert the club. In many ways 1963/64 was the watershed for it was during that season, when we were battling near the top, that we sold Fred Pickering to title rivals Everton. After that the decline was quite quick with relegation from the top flight following in 1965/66. We were then exiled from football's top table for 25 years and we could easily be about to embark on a similar period in the wilderness. I think it's way so many supporters, particularly ones like myself who witnessed that decline in the 1960s, are so upset with the way in which the Rao family tossed away Premier League status. It's not that easy to get back - just ask North End who have now spent over half a century outside of the top division following their relegation in 1960!

Can someone explain the "ticket fiasco" to me. I wasn't born at the time, my dad isn't a Rovers supporter, and I've only ever seen comments such as the one in bold, never an explanation. it must have been bad for it to still sting 50+ years later.

As far as Rovers go, we will be a Championship side for years to come. We all know who the characters are who put us there, the only ones who are still around are the owners, and I don't think that they will fuund the club appropriately for promotion.

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Tyrone Shoelaces

Tyrone Shoelaces

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It wasn't just the ticket fiasco that keaned people off. Dougan asking for a transfer on the morning of the match and then playing when he was carrying an obvious injury. No subs in those days. Left us to play out the game from about 5 minutes in with 10 players and a passenger on a red hot day. McGrath putting through his own goal and Whelan breaking a leg just before half time. That meant we were down to 9 and a 1/2 players versus a robust Wolves team. The players that were left did well to keep it down to 3-0.

Must have been one of the worst days in a Rovers history, certainly in my lifetime.

I reckon about 7,500 to 10,000 fans fell out with the club for one reason or another at that time. A bit like what's happened now with The Chicken Chokers.

Never mind League positions, look at the fall in attendances.

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