[Archived] Istanbul - please help- media blackout out here

[diziet2]

Just read an accusation (with pics) from a medic that the water cannon's water may have contained a chemical agent!

yes it hearing the same reports.. apparently feels like your skin is burning.

Also the police fired tear gas into the divan hotel ( a very nice hotel too) as it was treating wounded protesters. guests at the hotel giving up rooms to the wounded.

People starting to march to taksim from all parts of Istanbul.

[Glenn]

Lots of pics on twitter of the police storming the Divan.

Rumours the Carsi (Besiktas Ultras) are massing to retake the square by force.

[diziet2]

From INSIDE the Divan hotel!!! unbelievable

[diziet2]

10's of thousands walkşng on Taksim

Live feed http://www.dha.com.tr/dhayayin/

[Glenn]

DHA now has footage of people walking towards Taksim

http://www.dha.com.tr/dhayayin/

[Glenn]

[Stuart]

[Glenn]

Handy time line http://gezipark.nadir.org/index_eng.html

[Glenn]

[Lancs Rover]

Main headline this morning.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/15/turkey-police-clear-gezi-park

[diziet2]

just getting news this morning that the military police were deployed last night. This is who you must have seen. They are cleared to shoot people with live bullets.

[diziet2]

Taksim square sealed off to people and traffic.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/turkish-police-end-occupation-of-istanbul-park-at-center-of-biggest-challenge-for-pm-in-decade/2013/06/15/88e0f446-d61e-11e2-ab72-3f0d51ec1628_story.html

the minster has said anyone entering will be classed as a terrorist!

[Guest Norbert]

Good lord. Hopefully Erdogan will see sense and not start going down the same road Assad did.

[diziet2]

here you go. anyone entering taksim is a terrorist

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/everyone-who-enters-the-taksim-square-to-be-treated-as-terrorist-turkish-eu-minister.aspx?pageID=238&nID=48875&NewsCatID=338

this is crazy and getting extreme!

Going to houses and arresting the football fans ( Carsi now) !

[Guest Norbert]

Yep, your PM has gone all Iranian now. Time for him to go before he starts making people 'disappear'. The sudden escalation of his hubris and megalomania is alarming for those watching on the outside so goodness knows what it is like in Turkey. The world does not need another religious tyranny.

[diziet2]

I have learnt a hard lesson in the last two weeks. This is not a standard European government that might spin things but doesn't actually tell out right lies. Here these people just say anything, and I mean anything! BBC and CNN are under the influence of interested parties etc.

They never have to back anything of this up with any shred of evidence.

Tayyip has said that people were drinking in mosques. Just not true! some mosques took injured people in to treat them and help them.

Very dangerous times!

Ankara the capitial has now issued a ban on people gathering in the centre...

http://en.ria.ru/world/20130616/181696296/Ankara-Governors-Office-Bans-Downtown-Protests.html

while in Istanbul

doctors and footballs are arrested:

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/doctors-football-fans-detained-in-istanbul-protests.aspx?pageID=238&nID=48894&NewsCatID=341

finally all public transport to taksim and travel to taksim is shut off. While at the same time the cities buses and boats are taken by the akparti and used to take thier supporters to their counter demo.

This is like the tories or labour taking all the london red buses and using them for political means to ship only their supporters to a rally. NUTS! there would be outrage at the abuse of power of this in the UK!

[Stuart]

I know it's on a completely different scale but I have to admit I've been reminded so much of the Kean-Venkys regime at several times during the last three weeks.

I'm half expecting someone to say that this is only '1% of people protesting' and that 'real Turks' can 'see what we are trying to do here'.

[diziet2]

http://www.dha.com.tr/dhayayin/

they are live down on Besiktas... who I think are about to try to march up to Taksim

[Lancs Rover]

I know it's on a completely different scale but I have to admit I've been reminded so much of the Kean-Venkys regime at several times during the last three weeks.

I'm half expecting someone to say that this is only '1% of people protesting' and that 'real Turks' can 'see what we are trying to do here'.

You're right though, Stuart.

I took our kids down to the Rovers vs Newcastle league cup match a couple of years ago. We got there early in the town centre so I told them to kill some time for an hour in the shopping centre while I did the same in the Central library. By chance a book caught my eye and I read it for a good fifteen minutes or so: Obedience to Authority by Stanley Milgram.

I was researching a PhD at the time and still am (it's what I should be doing now, actually). The book changed the whole emphasis of the thesis. Basically, his experiments in social psychology show that, as social animals, we have evolved certain ways of living in groups. One of those ways we cohere is to defer to hierarchies of authority. OK, so what?

It's actually very difficult for most people to hurt others but we will do given social certain conditions. One of them is pressure to conform to the group or those with power. Most people would rather publicly agree to lies than speak out and be marginalised. It takes guts to do it whatever the issue.

That's why I have time for Mullan and the rest, even though I don't often agree with them. The act of standing up to authority is often more important in many respects than the facts of the issue itself.

You're actually bob on Stuart, in my opinion.

[diziet2]

on the live feed big anti-government groups gathering

[lancashire]

Appreciate all of this, but be careful out there.

[Glenn]

Indeed, reading http://gezipark.nadir.org/ it look like there has been a serious change of tactics by the government of incapacitate or detain anyone that shows any kind of resistance (even peaceful marches or even banging pans in support out of windows!) as well as confiscation of googles/helmets/gloves etc.

It now looks to be confirmed it was pepper spray they were adding to the water cannons in Istanbul and its looks like may people are getting seriously injured by CS rounds to the head (I'm sure they were supposed to be fired at the floor, but most of the footage shows them being aimed upwards).

What has been peaceful so far (on the side of the protesters) I can see escalating into civil war, it seems the harder the police go in, the more people support the turn against Erdogan.

[diziet2]

a bit quieter tonight. Taksim is on lock down and the government threatened to deploy the army into the cities.

Curious move as although the Military has had its balls chopped off (one 3rd of the generals are in prison and so if 1/2 the admirals) the army reamins in its heart secularist. He could deploy them if it comes to it. the Question would be, would the army follow his orders or overthrow him?

the big trade unions also held a 1 day strike in support of the protests today.

This uprising seems to be following a bit of a pattern.. conflict for a few days followed by a couple of days of lull. A bit like Steve keans attempt to sign Jordan rhodes... ( see topical.)

Lets see what tomorrow brings.

Indeed, reading http://gezipark.nadir.org/ it look like there has been a serious change of tactics by the government of incapacitate or detain anyone that shows any kind of resistance (even peaceful marches or even banging pans in support out of windows!) as well as confiscation of googles/helmets/gloves etc.

It now looks to be confirmed it was pepper spray they were adding to the water cannons in Istanbul and its looks like may people are getting seriously injured by CS rounds to the head (I'm sure they were supposed to be fired at the floor, but most of the footage shows them being aimed upwards).

What has been peaceful so far (on the side of the protesters) I can see escalating into civil war, it seems the harder the police go in, the more people support the turn against Erdogan.

yes the orange stuff they are putting in is a pepper spray into the water.

With the cs/tear spray rounds. THe should be fired up into the air at a 45 degree angle. the problem is the police have been firing straight at the crowds. Many now have brain damage or have lost eyes. Thats why they are wearing builders hats; for the protection.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

So where are the mighty Ultras now diziet?..still hiding behind the Women and Children?

Nothing more than Anarchists looking to confront authority...dealt with a swift Iron fist.

[Stuart]

I'm really surprised at that post from you, SG.