[Archived] Istanbul - please help- media blackout out here

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

Please dont be.

Order had to be restored Stuart,sometimes it takes drastic measures.

[Guest Norbert]

You mean like Tiannimen Square or Syria? The fact is that the PM has become increasingly authoritarian and imposed more Islamic rules upon a country that is largely secular. Would you like to live in a country where the PM, once elected applies increasingly Puritan Christian morality on you, and sends in the riot police when you protest that you didn't want Christmas banned and so on?

[K-Hod]

So where are the mighty Ultras now diziet?..still hiding behind the Women and Children?

Nothing more than Anarchists looking to confront authority...dealt with a swift Iron fist.

Have you had a bump on the head, or are you that dense?

[Mike E]

Christ SG, you been drinking a wood stainer or something?

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

Look, to me what begun as an issue-based opposition with a specific purpose and demand (Taksim Gezi Park Project) has turned into an ideological opposition against the Government without a specific goal or demand.A hijacking.

Two groups have emerged in the course of demonstrations: those who went to Taksim to support nothing more than the halting of the project and those who wanted to manipulate this into an ideological uprising against the AK Party Government and the PM RTayyip Erdogan.

As I understand,the first group is composed of people of various backgrounds, the second group is mostly a combination of leftist, Marxist-Leninist and neo-nationalist groups allied to the local football 'ultras' nuggets. Their only common point – the unifying cause-- is their hostility towards AK Party and its pro Islamic views. The second group includes such well-known radical groups as TKP (Turkey Communist Party) and the outlawed leftist organization DHKPC, which carried out the attack on the US Embassy on February 1st, 2013....Political Anarchists in my view who have seen a perfect opportunity arise to further their own agenda.

Not 'dense' K-Hod..I just have an opinion that differs from your's.Anyway,they dont call Turkey the arsehole of the world for nothing,the only good thing to have come out of it being a certain Mr Tugay!

[diziet2]

Look, to me what begun as an issue-based opposition with a specific purpose and demand (Taksim Gezi Park Project) has turned into an ideological opposition against the Government without a specific goal or demand.A hijacking.

Two groups have emerged in the course of demonstrations: those who went to Taksim to support nothing more than the halting of the project and those who wanted to manipulate this into an ideological uprising against the AK Party Government and the PM RTayyip Erdogan.

As I understand,the first group is composed of people of various backgrounds, the second group is mostly a combination of leftist, Marxist-Leninist and neo-nationalist groups allied to the local football 'ultras' nuggets. Their only common point – the unifying cause-- is their hostility towards AK Party and its pro Islamic views. The second group includes such well-known radical groups as TKP (Turkey Communist Party) and the outlawed leftist organization DHKPC, which carried out the attack on the US Embassy on February 1st, 2013....Anarchists in my view who have seen an opportunity arise to further their own agenda.

Not 'dense' K-Hod..I just have an opinion that differs from your's.Anyway,they dont call Turkey the arsehole of the world for nothing,the only good thing to have come out of it being a certain Mr Tugay!

I would say your reading of the situation is wrong. Most/nearly all the crowd in the park and taskim over the last 2 weeks have been one group. That group has been mums, dads, sons, daughters and people finishing work. A broad spread of the population. The reason they had come out was to protest at the extreme force used to try to evict what had been a peaceful protest in gezi park. The football fans have been embraced by this group because firstly everyone in the city is a football fan and secondly they are the same people.

The fringe political groups simply saw a massive crowd and though it a good opportunity to get their banners out on show. Over the two weeks i honestly found little/no support for these groups apart from the 20-50 or so who belonged to whichever political party.

The protesters in the park were just normal people who had had enough of how the akparti and erdogan went about telling people what to do.

Ak parti came to power on a ticket of freeing up the economy and getting rid of a corrupt state (backed by the army) who lined their own pockets and suppressed any opposition with heavy force. The people reacted because they realised that ak parti was now acting in the same manner.

ak parti has become corrupt and people get appointed to positions not on how good they are but on who they know. The gezi park project stuck in peoples throats because it was yet another example of this. firstly what right does a prime minster have to be dictating what is happening in a city? Is that not the mayor's responsibility? Secondly it is a public space and yet the contract to redevelop this space was to be awarded to erdogans son-in-laws company. Once the barracks were built, it would not longer be public space and the mall would now be owned by ak parti supporting business.

this is what people were reacting too and still are. He cannot treat the country like his personal property and that is exactly what he is doing now.

Oddly this is not a n islamist V's secular struggle. It is a struggle of holding a government to account for its actions v's authoritarianism

[diziet2]

fancinating change of events last night/today.

one man stood motionless in front of the ataturk building in a defiance of the government. A passive resistance that is now being copied. An interesting turn of events.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jun/18/turkey-standing-man

[diziet2]

its all gone a bit quieter here now.

the silent standing protest is catching on with more numbers standing in taksim and other cities around the country

but depressingly during this quiet time the government/ak parti is starting to settle scores with groups who it thinks defied it.

One of only two tv channels that were not owned by the ak parti associaties and broadcast live coverage of taksim square has been shut down

http://blogs.euobserver.com/debeuf/2013/06/13/an-open-letter-from-the-turkish-hayat-tv-to-be-closed-down-because-it-broadcasted-taksim/

More worryingly still is this article today about Robert college (private high school/a level place and Turkey's equivalent of Eton (rated as the best school in the whole of Turkey)) has been attacked by the government

http://www.yeniakit.com/amerikali-robert-kolejinden-gezi-kiskirtmasi-3866h.htm

its in turkish but you can translate using google; to summarise though: They are saying that teachers at Robert College actively encouraged/forced their students to take part in the protests. Erdogan says that we send our children like puppies to be well trained and live life on the right path, not to be archaists.

Teachers will be fired over this at robert college and contracts not renewed. The turkish principal (headmaster) will be removed.

So everything seems ok and returning to normal on the surface but underneath the ak parti/erdogan is already starting to settle scores and make people pay for defying him!

[diziet2]

I thought things were settling down. Then tonight it all kicks off again in Taksim.

People have been gathering for both the silent protests but also to commemerate the 5 people (one police offer) who have died over the last few weeks.

the police have then opened up with water cannon and advanced on the crowd trying to make them flee. Now we have some sort of stand off with police and protesters (who are carrying flowers to signify a peaceful protest).

This is going to turn into a long night of cat and mouse with the police and my guess is a lot of tear gas.

If he will not listen to peoples concerns (even if they are a minority it is a significant minority)this is going to carry on all summer!

Anyhow here are two live feeds if you want to follow the action

reuters.livestation.com/demo

and

www.dha.com.tr/dhayayin/

[Silas]

Anyone know where Diziet has gone?

Strange for him to go so quiet when it is all still kicking off pretty bad over there.

Any chance of a roll call when you get a minute Dizzie just to show you are in good health.

And what's the story over there? I can't see this being a smooth transition and there is surely more problems ahead with the army now in control.

[Guest Norbert]

I think he posted elsewhere in the last day or two.

I wonder what is going on in Turkey, now it has dropped off the news. And I wonder if what has happened in Egypt will affect their situation.