[Archived] Clearout begins at Rovers

[pick32]

Goals are theist important part of a strikers game and he scores bags full. He is still a young lad aswel I'd say 8mill is a fair price in the English market.

[Lytham]

Jordan Rhodes is rubbish! Two games without a goal! Only scored 28 games last season! Sell him!

Good grief. I fear for some people on here.

[ABBEY]

You n me both

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

He doesn't score for 2 games and some fans want him out of the club, never heard anything more ridiculous in my entire life.

If you think we're a better team without him that's one thing, but trying to make out getting rid of him would be a prudent financial decision is rubbish. What would we do with that £8m? Can guarantee we wouldn't spend more than half of it and Rhodes came to Rovers at a time when the general consensus was we had a good chance of going up, nobody thinks that now, so what kind of striker would we attract with £4m?

Strikers are the riskiest position to buy in and we could get a lot worse a return on our money than what Rhodes has provided so far. Look at how many Nicola Zigic or Kevin Doyle scored last season.

[Mani]

I'm not saying I want to sell him...in an ideal world we'd keep him and buy RVP and Aguero but we don't live in an ideal world.

My point is that he actually hinders us when he isn't scoring goals. I said it last season too. The reason being that rest of his game (control, passing, strength, Pace) is sat somewhere between average and poor!

I'm not saying that the guy isn't a world class finisher because IMO he is...but the way the game is now teams need strikers to have better technique and to be able to hold the ball up and lead the line...Rhodes is very similar in what he offers as Chicarito at United and how often does he get a game? Second strikers/poachers are an unwanted luxury for most teams now..

I just want him to start firing again and soon because when he doesn't we may as well play with 10 men...I can see why GB would be open to selling him should the £££ be right and he be allowed to spend some on who he wants..

[Lytham]

Two games.

[chaddyrovers]

Rovers have played two games so far. Wasn't interest in the Cup tbh. League is the important thing.

Rhodes is a goalscorer. very similar to Gary Linekar. a natural goalscorer.

I still think Goalscorers have a place in the game and in our team. Rhodes is still only 22/23 and will improve but this take time and patience.

If Rhodes had scored the goal that Best had against Derby then we would be praising him and Bowyer for set the team to creating chances for him.

If Rovers had won the first 2 games and Rhodes score in both then this wouldn't be issue at all.

Rhodes is lacking confidence from not scoring this season so far. that's is all. Can't believe People are calling him and moaning about his work rate. His work rate in both games has been fine. people are trying to find things that they can moan about.

Not interest in what Man U do tbh. a lot of fans would play Hernandez with RVP up front tho.

P.S Rhodes isn't leaving Rovers.

[tomphil]

I'm not saying I want to sell him...in an ideal world we'd keep him and buy RVP and Aguero but we don't live in an ideal world.

My point is that he actually hinders us when he isn't scoring goals. I said it last season too. The reason being that rest of his game (control, passing, strength, Pace) is sat somewhere between average and poor!

I'm not saying that the guy isn't a world class finisher because IMO he is...but the way the game is now teams need strikers to have better technique and to be able to hold the ball up and lead the line...Rhodes is very similar in what he offers as Chicarito at United and how often does he get a game? Second strikers/poachers are an unwanted luxury for most teams now..

I just want him to start firing again and soon because when he doesn't we may as well play with 10 men...I can see why GB would be open to selling him should the £££ be right and he be allowed to spend some on who he wants..

I don't think he hindered the team at all on Sat, in fact a few times in the second half he ran his nuts off chasing down defenders when they passed along the back line. Contrast to Best who just ambled around as usual.

[davulsukur]

I'm not saying I want to sell him...in an ideal world we'd keep him and buy RVP and Aguero but we don't live in an ideal world.

My point is that he actually hinders us when he isn't scoring goals. I said it last season too. The reason being that rest of his game (control, passing, strength, Pace) is sat somewhere between average and poor!

I'm not saying that the guy isn't a world class finisher because IMO he is...but the way the game is now teams need strikers to have better technique and to be able to hold the ball up and lead the line...Rhodes is very similar in what he offers as Chicarito at United and how often does he get a game? Second strikers/poachers are an unwanted luxury for most teams now..

I just want him to start firing again and soon because when he doesn't we may as well play with 10 men...I can see why GB would be open to selling him should the £££ be right and he be allowed to spend some on who he wants..

You can't play him in a 4-4-2. If he isn't the all round striker/bruiser who can hold off defenders with his back to goal, then don't play him in a role where he has to do that.

Put him on the shoulder of the last defender, working the back 4 and making the runs in behind. Playing 4-4-2 leaves a massive gap between midfield and the forwards, certainly when Lowe and Marrow are your 2 CM's, which results in the ball just being lumped forward.

4-2-3-1 with Rochina playing in behind Rhodes, dropping short to collect the ball, leaving Rhodes upfront and the goals will come.

[tomphil]

Rovers have played two games so far. Wasn't interest in the Cup tbh. League is the important thing.

Rhodes is a goalscorer. very similar to Gary Linekar. a natural goalscorer.

I still think Goalscorers have a place in the game and in our team. Rhodes is still only 22/23 and will improve but this take time and patience.

If Rhodes had scored the goal that Best had against Derby then we would be praising him and Bowyer for set the team to creating chances for him.

If Rovers had won the first 2 games and Rhodes score in both then this wouldn't be issue at all.

Rhodes is lacking confidence from not scoring this season so far. that's is all. Can't believe People are calling him and moaning about his work rate. His work rate in both games has been fine. people are trying to find things that they can moan about.

Not interest in what Man U do tbh. a lot of fans would play Hernandez with RVP up front tho.

P.S Rhodes isn't leaving Rovers.

Your correct on that infact both Lineker and Rush were world class strikers but both were far from great footballers. IF Rochina was fit he would probably have been on in place of Best and the formation and overall play would have been a bit different, maybe even the results.

[den]

Rhodes is a goalscorer. very similar to Gary Linekar. a natural goalscorer.

I still think Goalscorers have a place in the game and in our team. Rhodes is still only 22/23 and will improve but this take time and patience.

Linker scored 243 goals at the very top level in club football Chaddy. He also scored 48 goals in 80 games for England. He won the World Cup golden shoe, as well as the PFA player of the year, the FWA player of the year twice and came third in the world player of the year.

Rhodes currently can't get a start for Scotland. Also, at his age and as a striker, what you see now, is what you're going to get.

Let's get real here Chaddy.

[jim mk2]

Rovers have played two games so far. Wasn't interest in the Cup tbh. League is the important thing.

Rhodes is a goalscorer. very similar to Gary Linekar. a natural goalscorer.

I .

I used to score alot of runs as a batsman but that doesn't mean I'm similar to Kevin Pietersen. It's all about levels - Lineker was a top performer at the highest club and international level while Rhodes has never played higher than the second tier of the domestic game. You cannot compare the two.

[West Yorks Rover]

Both Lineker an Rush were blessed with something Rhodes does'nt have - Lightning speed.

He needs to get clever, more like Teddy Sherringham, who lacked pace, but did pretty well in his career.

[blueboy3333]

Linker scored 243 goals at the very top level in club football Chaddy. He also scored 48 goals in 80 games for England. He won the World Cup golden shoe, as well as the PFA player of the year, the FWA player of the year twice and came third in the world player of the year.

Rhodes currently can't get a start for Scotland. Also, at his age and as a striker, what you see now, is what you're going to get.

Let's get real here Chaddy.

I think Chaddy was just correctly making the point that Rhodes is a natural finisher, in the same way Lineker was. He wasn't comparing the two. People on here seem to criticise players for what they can't do, rather than acknowledge what they're good at.(Lowe is an example of this). Rhodes is a superb finisher, to say otherwise is nonsense. We're lucky to have him. It's up to the manager and other players to provide him with the chances. Bowyer himself said the same at the end of last season.

As for the bit i've highlighted bit i don't even know what that means. Lambert has just had a call up to the England squad. At Rhodes' age he was probably playing in League 2.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

I'm not saying I want to sell him...in an ideal world we'd keep him and buy RVP and Aguero but we don't live in an ideal world.

My point is that he actually hinders us when he isn't scoring goals. I said it last season too. The reason being that rest of his game (control, passing, strength, Pace) is sat somewhere between average and poor!

I'm not saying that the guy isn't a world class finisher because IMO he is...but the way the game is now teams need strikers to have better technique and to be able to hold the ball up and lead the line...Rhodes is very similar in what he offers as Chicarito at United and how often does he get a game? Second strikers/poachers are an unwanted luxury for most teams now..

I just want him to start firing again and soon because when he doesn't we may as well play with 10 men...I can see why GB would be open to selling him should the £££ be right and he be allowed to spend some on who he wants..

Just be honest, you do actually want to sell him. Most of the fans who have been gossiping excitedly about the prospect of him leaving this summer want to sell him, that's why they're doing it.

I see what you're saying, he mainly is a poacher and doesn't offer much when we're not providing him with chances. But what did Best do on Saturday that Rhodes didn't? Not much from what I could see. I doubt DJ Campbell would have done much either. In games where we barely create any chances and the opposition defend brilliantly, few strikers would get into them.

What makes me laugh is when we get a player who can impose himself on a game where he's getting little service, like Kazim-Richards or in the old days Jason Roberts, just as much if not more of our support are critical because that player lacks a poachers finish.You can't have it both ways, unless you're at the very top level and have someone like Drogba playing for you.

There's always a "the grass is greener on the other side" mentality among a lot of fans, who think that signing someone else will solve our problems. New signings are always treated with an often misplaced positivism and players who have been here a while are underappreciated. And then once the new signing has been here a year or 2, the novelty effect wears off and fans start to notice their failings (Murphy, Formica, Goodwillie). I'll be very interested to see what fan opinion on Judge, Taylor, Cairney and Spurr is like in a year or 2.

Unless there's something seriously wrong with them or we have a lot of money to spend, then give me the same players we had last season. The grass usually isn't greener on the other side, new signings often don't improve us, and its not good for a club to be constantly signing replacements every year or 2, in terms of agents fees or building a settled side.

[thenodrog]

I'm not saying I want to sell him...in an ideal world we'd keep him and buy RVP and Aguero but we don't live in an ideal world.

My point is that he actually hinders us when he isn't scoring goals. I said it last season too. The reason being that rest of his game (control, passing, strength, Pace) is sat somewhere between average and poor!

I'm not saying that the guy isn't a world class finisher because IMO he is...but the way the game is now teams need strikers to have better technique and to be able to hold the ball up and lead the line...Rhodes is very similar in what he offers as Chicarito at United and how often does he get a game? Second strikers/poachers are an unwanted luxury for most teams now..

I just want him to start firing again and soon because when he doesn't we may as well play with 10 men...I can see why GB would be open to selling him should the £££ be right and he be allowed to spend some on who he wants..

The rest of your post is quite good but you seriously need to edit that bit! JR "World class finisher" my arse!

Alternatively can you name any accepted World class finishers who have never played at a higher level than bottom half of basic second division stuff anywhere?

[roversR4ever]

Rhodes has strengths and weakness, great finisher who gets into a lot of decent positions but doesn't contribute in terms of hold up play.

The way I see it is pretty simple with Best alongside him you need a midfield that is going to provide them with chances. We have played two games and not yet been able to field anything like our best midfield. Cairney can pass and I cant help but think that he will help in providing a better quality ball firstly to our strikers, secondly help with keeping possession which may allow Taylor and Judge the opportunity to deliver more into the box for our two strikers. Also add Evans in who on last years performances will help a little more with possession than Marrow does while still doing the defensive work needed to be able to play Cairney. You may see a bit more of an enthusiastic Rhodes when he knows there is a chance a opportunities for him.

I do think both Taylor and Judge are capable of a decent ball into the two strikers, but having to play both Marrow and Lowe together limits their options.

As I have said in my mind the time to really panic is when we are playing our best midfield and still losing, when you have someone like Rhodes your midfield really is key.

Neither Derby or Forest have outplayed us and its been stupid individual errors that have cost us.

If we can improve in possession and that results in better balls into the box, I think you will see a lot more defenders very uncomfortable trying to deal with Rhodes.

[den]

Rhodes has strengths and weakness, great finisher who gets into a lot of decent positions but doesn't contribute in terms of hold up play.

The way I see it is pretty simple with Best alongside him you need a midfield that is going to provide them with chances. We have played two games and not yet been able to field anything like our best midfield. Cairney can pass and I cant help but think that he will help in provide a better quality ball firstly to our strikers, secondly help with keeping possession which may allow Taylor and Judge the opportunity to deliver more into the box for our two strikers. Also add Evans in who on last years performances will help a little more with possession than Marrow does while still doing the defensive work needed to be able to play Cairney. You may see a bit more of an enthusiastic Rhodes when he knows there is a chance a opportunities for him.

I do think both Taylor and Judge are capable of a decent ball into the two strikers, but having to play both Marrow and Evans together limits their options.

As I have said in my mind the time to really panic is when we are playing our best midfield and still losing, when you have someone like Rhodes your midfield really is key.

Neither Derby or Forest have outplayed us and its been stupid individual errors that have cost us.

4-4-2 doesn't work against a decent side. They'll pass you to death. I think you can get away with 4-4-2 against the poorer teams, but IMO, if you want to progress that's not the way to go. Football is so much about pace, power, movement and technique these days.

[Mike E]

4-4-2 doesn't work against a decent side. They'll pass you to death. I think you can get away with 4-4-2 against the poorer teams, but IMO, if you want to progress that's not the way to go. Football is so much about pace, power, movement and technique these days.

451 is more effective, but why would you play a tactic with 3 midfielders if there's only 2 (Lowe and Marrow) available?

[roversR4ever]

4-4-2 doesn't work against a decent side. They'll pass you to death. I think you can get away with 4-4-2 against the poorer teams, but IMO, if you want to progress that's not the way to go. Football is so much about pace, power, movement and technique these days.

I know where you are coming from, and I think in the prem that would be a major issue.

Im just not as certain in the championship having seen the standard of players on the ball, as long as you have a hard enough working midfield which with evans, taylor and judge we might have enough if we can play Cairney to keep enough of the possession and be combative enough when out of possession to get away with it.

It will be interesting as well to see if we ever play Evans, Cairney Lowe (Williamson when fit), Taylor and Judge in a 5 man midfield. Cairney allowed a little more freedom. Even with just Rhodes up on his own it may work if Cairney Taylor and Judge get decent delivery in.

My point is we need to see how we perform as a team with both Cairney and Evans fit. Then it maybe easier to make judgements on the team as a whole. When Jones and Williamson were playing last year we looked fairly decent under Bowyer. To my mind with Evans and Cairney added our cm is stronger especially if Williamson returns to fitness.

[eire3382]

All this talk of comparing Rhodes to X Y or Z is pointless IMO.

Last year he played in a team that was not organised and for a club that was falling apart.

To his great credit he scored alot of goals.

This year there is alot of changes in the squad/team and eveyone will take time to settle.

Do I want him to go, of course not.

Is he worth what we paid for him, of course not.

Will we find someone who can score the number of goals he did, I don't think we will.

Look while we have him we need to play to his strengths, thats what Liverpool did with Rush and how England played with Lineker.

Its about the system and style of play, GB seems to be building something lets wait and see.

In the mean time there is plenty of deadwood to be removed before we look to Rhodes or Dann.

[Jimmy612]

Both Lineker an Rush were blessed with something Rhodes does'nt have - Lightning speed.

He needs to get clever, more like Teddy Sherringham, who lacked pace, but did pretty well in his career.

Teddy Sheringham was a better footballer in his sleep than Rhodes is.

No speed + Lack of quality i.e.first touch etc + lack of presence + inability to play lone striker role, generally = not PL quality, and certainly not worth over £5m

[McClarky]

Is the issue with Rhodes not whether we can keep him rather than whether we want to keep him? Even with his limitations as an all round footballer surely no right minded person would argue that we should flog him on unless he forces a move or we need to sell him to stay afloat. Can't be bothered reading back throught pages of angst to confirm this though. When you see our side written down he is probable the only 1 who looks like he might be a top player even at this level.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

What Lineker and Rush had and Rhodes hasn't is pace. He 's one paced. That's the skill/asset that's hardest to improve. You're either quick or you're not. He see the opportunities quickly enough but his body doesn't get him there soon enough. Centre halves can play 10 yards further up the pitch against Rhodes because they know he'll never run away from them over 20-25 yards. Can you imagine doing that with Bellamy for instance or even Andy Cole ? One slip from the centre backs and they were gone. That's why a big club won't come in for him.

[roversR4ever]

What is also quite startling is how young our team is likely to be next game and has been this season so far.

Rhodes (23) Best (26), Taylor (26), Cairney (22), Evans (23), Judge (24), Spurr (25), Dann (26), Hanley (21), Kane (19), Kean (22). Average age 23

If he drops to a 5 man mid with Lowe (21) instead of Best or If Rochina (22) wasn't injured even younger.