[Archived] Clearout begins at Rovers

[Exiled in Toronto]

Hey there - Mani started this discussion, not me !

I have just added my views to the points he's raised.

Points that completely contradicted your point that we will be forced to sell Rhodes at a substantial loss.

[roversR4ever]

What Lineker and Rush had and Rhodes hasn't is pace. He 's one paced. That's the skill/asset that's hardest to improve. You're either quick or you're not. He see the opportunities quickly enough but his body doesn't get him there soon enough. Centre halves can play 10 yards further up the pitch against Rhodes because they know he'll never run away from them over 20-25 yards. Can you imagine doing that with Bellamy for instance or even Andy Cole ? One slip from the centre backs and they were gone. That's why a big club won't come in for him.

Probably true. His finishing and ability to get into a decent position is Premiership level, but most prem teams play with one striker which he would struggle at in the prem. Given time he could get stronger (he is 6ft ) and touch/technique can improve as well as he is only 23 which he will have to do if he is to step up a level. At present he can score goals for fun in the championship and could carry on developing but not yet prem level if he ever will be.

To my mind his best bet is to get much stronger, bulk up and make himself more powerfull and work like crazy on his first touch. He is decent in the air, finishing very good so if he can turn himself into more of a hand full he could get to the next level. Hopefully he has the determination to realise it.

I still remember after his knee injuries how much stronger Shearer looked as he knew his injuries would take away some of his pace. (im not remotely comparing Rhodes to Shearer I hasten to add - there obviously is no comparison).

[yoda]

the people who think we should cash in on Rhodes probably have the same intellectual level as the ones who wanted BFS out

[Jimmy612]

the people who think we should cash in on Rhodes probably have the same intellectual level as the ones who wanted BFS out

That's a very interesting comment Yoda, as interestingly, the ones who are not showering glory on Rhodes are infact the group who would probably be classed as pro-sam. Theno, Jim Mk2, Den, Me etc.

Cashing in on Rhodes would only be an option if the cash was used to better the squad and therefore improve results over the season. As that is not likely to happen, plus no one is going to pay anywhere near £8m, it looks like we will have to battle on and hope that his goals keep an otherwise poor squad up.

[Silas]

Teddy Sheringham was a better footballer in his sleep than Rhodes is.

No speed + Lack of quality i.e.first touch etc + lack of presence + inability to play lone striker role, generally = not PL quality, and certainly not worth over £5m

£5m??!!!!

I don't get why everyone is undervaluing Rhodes so much. Have the dingles got into everyones heads and filled it full of their bile or something.

He is a young, proven goalscorer with a mightily impressive record. Yes, i accept he is not proven at top level, but the flip side of that is he is also not tested and proven a failure at that level so who knows.

People keep talking about how 8m is a pie in the sky figure. Seems about right to me, especially since young strikers always cost more.

Quick glance at a transfer website for strikers 23 years and under, over last decade in the Prem you have:

Samaras (Man City) - £7.5 million

Jay Rod (Southampton)- £7.5 million

Bebe (Man Utd)- £7.8 million

Wickham (Sunderland)- £8 million

David Nugent (Portsmouth)- £8 million

Kenwyne Jones (Sunderland)- £8 million

Postiga (Spurs) - £8 million

Dean Ashton (West Ham)- £9 million

Victor Moses (Chelsea) - £10 million

Fabio Borini (Liverpool) - £11.5 million

Ryan Babel (Liverpool) - £15 million

Is JR as good as any or all of those names? I don't know, and i suppose none of us will for a good few years until his career progresses.

But if I look at this list and think is he definately worse than, or is definately not as good as any of those, then I figure no, at this stage he is not out of place.

Note: Jimmy, not just aimed at you, just used your post. A lot of people seem to think no-one will stump up money for Rhodes and I find it a bit strange. It's talked about as if no Prem club has ever risked 8 - 10 million on untested players before, when really, it happens quite regularly, and on players with far worse track records than JR's.

[Salgado Is A Hero]

Arsenal - No, need top quality strikers

Villa - No, have Benteke, Helenius, Weimann and Agbonlahor

Cardiff - No, have just paid a lot of money for Cornelius

Chelsea - No, have Lukaku, Torres and Ba

Palace - Doubt it, Murray is there and Chamakh has just arrived on loan

Everton - No, have just bought Kone, have other strikers as well

Fulham - Maybe

Hull - Doubt it, have just brought in a couple of strikers

Liverpool - Doubt it, need to spend wisely, they have Strurridge, Borini and a Suarez replacement would have to be better. Midfield is their priority I imagine.

City - No

United - No

Newcastle - Maybe

Norwich - No, have already signed two strikers

S'oton - No, have strikers already

Spurs - No, have just bought Soldado and I doubt they'd be interested anyway

Stoke - Maybe

Sunderland - No, have Fletcher and have just signed Altidore

Swansea - No, have just signed Bony

West Brom - No, Anelka has just signed and they have Long

West Ham - No, have signed Carroll

So imo, that's only Fulham, Newcastle and Stoke who might be interested. But the first two have been after Darren Bent. Very similar players except Bent is proven in the Premier League, and would command a lesser transfer fee. Unsure about wages, both would probably leave for a bit less money.

Maybe Stoke, know they've been linked with strikers from the Bundesliga, one being Mame Biram Diouf. Possibly but if we're talking 8 million + then I can't see anyone paying that sort of money for what Rhodes is.

Both Newcastle and Fulham have been known to spend big and unwisely in the past. Andy Johnson springs to mind and Newcastle have bought some sh*te in the past, like that Xisco.

We'll see if there are teams genuinely interested but I'd be surprised if it's over 5 million. That's what other similar level Championship strikers would cost at the very most so I can't really see the appeal. I was referring to Austin and Wood mainly here, although Austin did have a year left.

[darrenrover]

£5m??!!!!

I don't get why everyone is undervaluing Rhodes so much. Have the dingles got into everyones heads and filled it full of their bile or something.

He is a young, proven goalscorer with a mightily impressive record. Yes, i accept he is not proven at top level, but the flip side of that is he is also not tested and proven a failure at that level so who knows.

People keep talking about how 8m is a pie in the sky figure. Seems about right to me, especially since young strikers always cost more.

Quick glance at a transfer website for strikers 23 years and under, over last decade in the Prem you have:

Samaras (Man City) - £7.5 million

Jay Rod (Southampton)- £7.5 million

Bebe (Man Utd)- £7.8 million

Wickham (Sunderland)- £8 million

David Nugent (Portsmouth)- £8 million

Kenwyne Jones (Sunderland)- £8 million

Postiga (Spurs) - £8 million

Dean Ashton (West Ham)- £9 million

Victor Moses (Chelsea) - £10 million

Fabio Borini (Liverpool) - £11.5 million

Ryan Babel (Liverpool) - £15 million

Is JR as good as any or all of those names? I don't know, and i suppose none of us will for a good few years until his career progresses.

But if I look at this list and think is he definately worse than, or is definately not as good as any of those, then I figure no, at this stage he is not out of place.

Note: Jimmy, not just aimed at you, just used your post. A lot of people seem to think no-one will stump up money for Rhodes and I find it a bit strange. It's talked about as if no Prem club has ever risked 8 - 10 million on untested players before, when really, it happens quite regularly, and on players with far worse track records than JR's.

£35 million on Andy Carroll springs immediately to mind!!

[patrickvalery]

This is going to sound really 'out there' judging by the popular consensus. But i actually quite like Jordan Rhodes. I'm not sure if it has anything to do with it or not, but i think it might have something to do with all those goals he scored for us last season. Can't quite put my finger on it. Its weird.

[bob fleming]

West Ham - No, have signed Carroll

David Gold ‏@DavidGoldWHU 25 Jul

“@MrLovedayWHU: will we be signing a striker to link up with Carroll before the start of the season?

If all goes to plan. Yes. dg

[roversR4ever]

When you see that list Silas - I can see where your coming from. I think though over the last 5 years there has been such a big move by a lot of teams to playing one striker, and in the Prem Rhodes will struggle playing that role which is why at present im not sure any big bids will come in that are going to be big enough to prise him away.

I actually hope we keep him, he can score goals that we need.

I know I am probably alone in this but I think we could end up with a strong enough midfield in Taylor, Cairney, Evans, Williamson and Judge to control games and get the ball into dangerous positions for Rhodes to thrive (when not if Williamson is injured Lowe comes in for him). With that midfield you need someone who can take chances, because I actually believe there is a chance of us winning quite a few games 1-0. Obviously that's if Bowyer chooses to play 5 across the mid. Judge and Taylor could be quite attacking in that midfield. Spurr and Kane are willing to get forward as well. The issue with the midfield is that Judge, Cairney and Taylor are unlikely on past records to get more than 5-6 goals each at most so you need your striker to be a goal scorer.

Of course Bowyer could stick to 4 4 2. Best or DJ when fit will contribute more goals but still see Rhodes as important. I just cant help but think if Rhodes scored a similar number of goals we have the players when fit to stop or make it v v difficult to score against.

I know I am repeating myself but I have little doubt that Bowyer is going to play Cairney and Evans together, and that Marrow and Lowe was out of necessity. The intriguing thing is whether he adds Lowe or Williamson to the mid alongside them, if he does it is one very hard working midfield with possibly enough quality from Cairney, Judge and Taylor to win games. There could be a lot of tight games in store for us. Lets just hope that the individual mistakes stop happening.

[yoda]

That's a very interesting comment Yoda, as interestingly, the ones who are not showering glory on Rhodes are infact the group who would probably be classed as pro-sam. Theno, Jim Mk2, Den, Me etc.

Cashing in on Rhodes would only be an option if the cash was used to better the squad and therefore improve results over the season. As that is not likely to happen, plus no one is going to pay anywhere near £8m, it looks like we will have to battle on and hope that his goals keep an otherwise poor squad up.

All I can say to that is you have tried to put a spin on it, if we sell Rhodes in our current state we will be relegated again

[den]

All I can say to that is you have tried to put a spin on it, if we sell Rhodes in our current state we will be relegated again

You're dead right there Yoda.

That's assuming the manager isn't capable of bringing in three or four quality players with the money. Is that what you think?

[yoda]

You're dead right there Yoda.

That's assuming the manager isn't capable of bringing in three or four quality players with the money. Is that what you think?

Its a question of, are the owners capable or not,

sell one player, increase the wage bill with 3 or 4 quality players,

can't see it

[Blue blood]

You're dead right there Yoda.

That's assuming the manager isn't capable of bringing in three or four quality players with the money. Is that what you think?

Assuming we don't sell to balance the books this is they key question. Hard to say whether GB can - will be interesting to see if Evans and Cairney solve the midfield queston.

If we sell to balance the books I would be worried - no matter how little he brings aside from goals, Rhodes does bring that. I'm not convinced Campbell, Best and Rochina (as he's injured!)have enough in them to push us forward. More significantly I can't see Best or Campbell contributing towards the goal total of Rhodes (they don't have to get the goals themselves, if they contribute to other players scoring more as well.)

Assuming Bowyer has a plan, it'd be interesting to see what "type" of striker he would like. From the little of this season gone it doesn't look like Rhodes is his type of striker. If GB could get in a couple of strikers to suit his style a move may benefit us. So perhaps an equally important question would be: why are we selling?

[Mani]

I 100% do not want us to sell Rhodes as long as his heart is in it...

The stuff iv mentioned about him not looking interested in training is true but the rest is opinion...

Do I think he'll be sold? NO

Because A) we don't need to and so won't take a loss on him and because he was never actually worth £8m..

For those of you mentioning Rush and lineker I can add Defoe and Bent to that list...but whilst they're all poachers all of those players have other attributes such as pace, good feet etc

So whilst they're the same type of player they're not really comparable

[West Yorks Rover]

Teddy Sheringham was a better footballer in his sleep than Rhodes is.

No speed + Lack of quality i.e.first touch etc + lack of presence + inability to play lone striker role, generally = not PL quality, and certainly not worth over £5m

Sheringham was still playing for Milwall in this league until he was 25, saw him against Rovers a few times, good player, but definitely not

particularly gifted IMO.

Had a clever football head though and used it well, hence going on to better things, Rhodes needs to learn, but will he ?

Do Rovers have the the right people to coach him or to use him correctly ?

[SoldierMo]

How does Rhodes not look interested when he came out himself and said he was happy and wanted to stay bearing in mond he seems one if the genuine guys...how can people fault his effort over the last two games in which he cuda scord one or two and also could and should have won two pens....ALL this over not scoring in 2games....Yes 2 games

[RevidgeBlue]

You're dead right there Yoda.

That's assuming the manager isn't capable of bringing in three or four quality players with the money. Is that what you think?

So the argument that you and jimmy are trying to advance if I understand it right is that Rhodes is a poor all round player who isn't worth more than 5m tops.

Yet for that sort of money the manager has to replace him with another striker with supposedly a better all round game, AND transform the rest of the side? That's without even taking the extra wages into account. He'd need to be Merlin the Magician not just Gary Bowyer to do that Den.

If Rhodes had to be replaced for any reason the overwhelming probability is that he'd be replaced with a plodder who'd struggle to get one third of the goals Rhodes would, and 2-3 players not particularly better than the ones we've already got. That wouldn't be a reflection on Bowyer particularly, the sums of money wouldn't be sufficient to do so unless we got fairly lucky.

And relegation would likely follow as Yoda says.

[SoldierMo]

So a question? Who would you replace Rhodes with?? Especially in todays market

[Mani]

So a question? Who would you replace Rhodes with?? Especially in todays market

Jason Lee??

He's got a pineapple on his head, he's got a pineapple on his head"

[RevidgeBlue]

How does Rhodes not look interested when he came out himself and said he was happy and wanted to stay bearing in mond he seems one if the genuine guys...how can people fault his effort over the last two games in which he cuda scord one or two and also could and should have won two pens....ALL this over not scoring in 2games....Yes 2 games

I thought he worked his socks off on Saturday, never stopped running, although there were times when we failed to pick him out

All strikers experience a mini drought at some stage, Rhodes hasn't really had one in the last 2 seasons. Not saying this is his time for one after just 2 games but even if it does come to that in a few more games time it's no real reason for alarm imo.

If he was more or less ever present and he'd only scored 2-3 goals by Christmas that might be a different matter.

[chaddyrovers]

I think Chaddy was just correctly making the point that Rhodes is a natural finisher, in the same way Lineker was. He wasn't comparing the two.

That's was my point that both are natural finisher.

I 100% do not want us to sell Rhodes as long as his heart is in it...

The stuff iv mentioned about him not looking interested in training is true but the rest is opinion...

Do I think he'll be sold? NO

Because A) we don't need to and so won't take a loss on him and because he was never actually worth £8m..

Very good points and I agree with them.

So a question? Who would you replace Rhodes with?? Especially in todays market

Billy Sharp from Southampton. proven at this level and is available. think the fee being talk about is around 1.5 million.

Connor Wickham from Sunderland. he's available.

Paddy Madden from Yeovil.

Matty Fryatt from Hull. can't see him starting for Hull and with Hull signing 2 strikers plus having Gedo there aswell.

Personally would like to see Rhodes stays and Bowyer helps him improve his game all round

I thought he worked his socks off on Saturday, never stopped running, although there were times when we failed to pick him out

All strikers experience a mini drought at some stage, Rhodes hasn't really had one in the last 2 seasons. Not saying this is his time for one after just 2 games but even if it does come to that in a few more games time it's no real reason for alarm imo.

If he was more or less ever present and he'd only scored 2-3 goals by Christmas that might be a different matter.

Great points and couldn't agree more with Him. thought his work rate was very good.

[SoldierMo]

None of the ones u mentioned would get as many goals as Rhodes

Rhodes is a Natural finisher which is very very rare to find nowadays and if you have one in your team in the championship you have always got a chance for promotion wether its through playoffs or top 2

[Salgado Is A Hero]

No way of knowing that.

[chaddyrovers]

None of the ones u mentioned would get as many goals as Rhodes

Rhodes is a Natural finisher which is very very rare to find nowadays and if you have one in your team in the championship you have always got a chance for promotion wether its through playoffs or top 2

you are never going to replace the goals Rhodes get with one player

But you get a striker like Sharp or Fryatt who will score around 15 goals a season plus you have Best, DJ and Rochina who will score goals at this level. DJ and Best will/should get you between 10 to 15 goals at this level.