[Archived] Clearout begins at Rovers

[blue_n_white99]

I should imagine that it is a constant source of irritation for them. They can't send a letter without being reminded of Blackburn.

Most of them can't write and the others can't read so it shouldn't be that much of an issue

[thenodrog]

The one that really irks is Judge and those who are raving about him. I think he was a scuffler when he left and he has barely improved. Deceptively busy but achieves very, very little.

I imagine people are praising him cos in the team I saw v Forest he did stand out. If as you say Judge has 'barely improved' then that must speak volumes for the rest of the team.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

I imagine people are praising him cos in the team I saw v Forest he did stand out. If as you say Judge has 'barely improved' then that must speak volumes for the rest of the team.

What stood out for me against Forest was the ball falling to him in space in a reasonably attacking position, and then him inexplicably dribbling it about 20 yards sideways and straight out of play. Was one of the oddest things I've seen on a pitch for quite a while.

[thenodrog]

What stood out for me against Forest was the ball falling to him in space in a reasonably attacking position, and then him inexplicably dribbling it about 20 yards sideways and straight out of play. Was one of the oddest things I've seen on a pitch for quite a while.

Wasn't that Kane?

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

Everyone wasn't so that's your first problem. People think this board is fickle and everyones changing their minds from one minute to the next. That's not the case in my opinion, what happens is there is always a minority that disagree with what the majority just assume is a universally accepted view. That minority keeps quiet until things start going wrong, and then feels its able to speak up.

I'd prefer the first midfield you listed because in my opinion the first midfield has the potential to promote us under the right manager. The second midfield isn't good enough full stop, I could never imagine that being a PL midfield and I can't imagine it would get us there either.

Well that's your opinion on Pedersen, personally I disagree. He's been worse than when he first came for years, but appalling compared to what? I might not have started him back when we had Hoilett and an in-form Olsson in our ranks. But he's more ability in his little toe than 90% of this league. Our set pieces have been appalling this season, a few corners have even gone straight out of play.

If its costing us money to clear players out and we're not going to spend any of it on anyone else, then what's the point in getting rid of them? May as well just let their contracts run out. Well the proof is in the pudding, these clever and astute signings just had 1 shot on target against a former league 1 team. Give it a month or 2 and see if you change your mind.

You would prefer MGP, Murphy, Etuhu and Bentley ? A midfield that was overrun by numerous teams in the Championship - no matter how good a manager you can't make up for the lack of pace and drive in that midfield. Not saying that the new midfield will be any better - but as we have yet to see them all play together it is far too early to say.

[TBTF]

It was £5m per window Abs and I think most of us probably believed that bit, even if we knew the rest was pie in the sky.

Well Mrs where is the money ?

are they not shoving in alot more than that to cover the mounting losses ie £2million a month??

[Waggy76]

You would prefer MGP, Murphy, Etuhu and Bentley ? A midfield that was overrun by numerous teams in the Championship - no matter how good a manager you can't make up for the lack of pace and drive in that midfield. Not saying that the new midfield will be any better - but as we have yet to see them all play together it is far too early to say.

I doubt that midfield ever took the field but I get your drift !

[Baz]

On MGP I do have some sympathy for JW and SA because under the Trust there was never any transfer funding available to replace underperforming players so to some extent their hands were tied and they had to keep dishing out new contracts to players who weren't good enough, not doing the business or past their best -MGP, Emerton, Nelsen post injury and 5 goal a season Roberts. That's where the Trust's business model was fatally flawed imo

Yeah that fatally flawed model that kept us in the PL for 10 years, and qualified regularly for Europe. I'm so much happier we sold our entire PL squad.

[Batman.]

are they not shoving in alot more than that to cover the mounting losses ie £2million a month??

Exactly. Whilst not defending them, I remember that £5m being thrown around by somebody (Nixon), but we all know they didn't know what they were letting themselves in for. I have no doubt they have spent more than the equivalent of this amount, but unfortunately to cover the daft contracts and agent fees they have handed out.

Whilst I have no doubt he has no chance of being, I really hope Mercerman is right, and they are on their way out.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

You would prefer MGP, Murphy, Etuhu and Bentley ? A midfield that was overrun by numerous teams in the Championship - no matter how good a manager you can't make up for the lack of pace and drive in that midfield. Not saying that the new midfield will be any better - but as we have yet to see them all play together it is far too early to say.

A few pages back I compared the Forest home result from last season to the one from this as an example of our decline in quality, and someone pointed out we were lucky in that game. Us being described as lucky was also a recurring theme in the 8 games under Kean at the start of the season. As much as it galled me defending Kean I remember making the argument then that you can't put 14 points in 8 games down to luck. If you get outplayed in 1 game and win, its down to luck. If you get outplayed in 10 and win 6, it aint lucky, it might appear to be but there's gotta be a proper reason for it. In my opinion being "outplayed" and winning doesn't necessarily come down to luck, its about what your players' strengths are in comparison to the opposition. A midfield of oldish ex-PL players would get beat in pace and stamina, and so would therefore they'd concede the majority of possession. What they'd win at is having far more idea of what to do with possession when they had it.

Better point out here that I'm talking about how those players would play under Bowyer, not the totally **** managers that were Berg and Appleton. So under Bowyer, Pedersen might get to the bye-line half as much as Judge, but his final delivery would be twice as good. He's also a far better finisher, scores the odd free kick, plonked numerous corners directly on Dann's head last season, and knows exactly how to cover defensively. Comparing Murphy and Etuhu to Lowe and Marrow, well (again under Bowyer), I'd expect better decision making in the final third. Lowe and Marrow know how to run around and pass it sideways, but get them in the opposition half and they're stumped. Bentley (under Bowyer) I'd expect to work his way back towards at least Pedersen's level, so its the same argument against Taylor as my argument for Pedersen against Judge.

What I'm trying to say is our current midfield could have 55 minutes of possession and create 1 good chance (like on Friday). That oldies midfield could have 35 minutes of possession and create 5 good chances (like under Kean last season). And I also think they'd look after our full-backs a bit better. Maybe Kane and Morris are just being found out, or maybe they're playing behind wingers who are so busy bombing forward on fruitless runs that they can't track back.

[West Yorks Rover]

are they not shoving in alot more than that to cover the mounting losses ie £2million a month??

Well, we will have to hope so, but if it had'nt been for their own stupidity, we would still be in the Prem with excellent administrators

and a top manager, madam had obviously already decided that was'nt to way to carry on when she made her statement about the

£5m per window, so if I happened to meet her I would still ask, where is the money ?

[Paul]

Simon Barker, central midfielder. Went to QPR for a club record 400k in the mid 80's. Would walk into this team.

Did you have to post that bob? Sold to pay the bills in the days when £400k solved a lot of problems!

When Barker got the ball you could rely on something happening. If we had just one player today who could offer the same Saturdays would be more fun.

[laughatthedingles]

I think many of us are missing the point on a couple of things:

Firstly Venkys are actively looking at how they can input more money into the coffers without breaching FFP, however it is, and has been pre Venkys, a reality that the wages the club were paying out, we're unsustainable.

The other point is regarding comparing the current team, midfield, system etc to last seasons and previous seasons is difficult to do. Bowyer is taking a long term approach, partly due to necessity (needing to reduce wages) but partly due to him seeing it as the best way forward.

With that in mind he is trying to create a core nucleus of young, hungry players who will buy into his methods. He wants the club to play football a certain way, that takes time. He himself would be the first to admit that the team are short of quality and would like better players. Until we see what impact FFP has, if we can spend more etc, we need to cut our cloth accordingly.

The side show is though that Bowyer sees this as a 3 year project, the first stage is shipping out overpaid players, not willing to do the required graft or were bad eggs. The second being to replace them with the opposite, cheap, young, hungry players willing to give their all with regards to work rate but also in terms of taking on what he wants the team to do and how he wants them to play.

He will add better players in time but he wanted to get the basic principles in first, then you can add more quality.

It will work, my only fear is supporters like to think they take a long term view but in reality, they witness 120 minutes of squad players against Carlisle and 90 minutes against Forest and doubt him and the direction.

A side note, does Rhodes fit into the style? Possibly not, however he scores goals from nothing, that is invaluable and for his development he needs to learn to play as a focal point striker as most teams in the PL only play with 1. If he can't adapt, he won't move up the ladder. If he can, we will benefit as a team and ultimately financially. Until then I believe he will stay. Other clubs will be happy to see if he can adapt and then make a move, whereas we won't want to sell him for less than we paid, we won't get that unless he can adapt to playing up front without a partner.

[patrickvalery]

I think many of us are missing the point on a couple of things:

Firstly Venkys are actively looking at how they can input more money into the coffers without breaching FFP, however it is, and has been pre Venkys, a reality that the wages the club were paying out, we're unsustainable.

The other point is regarding comparing the current team, midfield, system etc to last seasons and previous seasons is difficult to do. Bowyer is taking a long term approach, partly due to necessity (needing to reduce wages) but partly due to him seeing it as the best way forward.

With that in mind he is trying to create a core nucleus of young, hungry players who will buy into his methods. He wants the club to play football a certain way, that takes time. He himself would be the first to admit that the team are short of quality and would like better players. Until we see what impact FFP has, if we can spend more etc, we need to cut our cloth accordingly.

The side show is though that Bowyer sees this as a 3 year project, the first stage is shipping out overpaid players, not willing to do the required graft or were bad eggs. The second being to replace them with the opposite, cheap, young, hungry players willing to give their all with regards to work rate but also in terms of taking on what he wants the team to do and how he wants them to play.

He will add better players in time but he wanted to get the basic principles in first, then you can add more quality.

It will work, my only fear is supporters like to think they take a long term view but in reality, they witness 120 minutes of squad players against Carlisle and 90 minutes against Forest and doubt him and the direction.

A side note, does Rhodes fit into the style? Possibly not, however he scores goals from nothing, that is invaluable and for his development he needs to learn to play as a focal point striker as most teams in the PL only play with 1. If he can't adapt, he won't move up the ladder. If he can, we will benefit as a team and ultimately financially. Until then I believe he will stay. Other clubs will be happy to see if he can adapt and then make a move, whereas we won't want to sell him for less than we paid, we won't get that unless he can adapt to playing up front without a partner.

Whether this is right or wrong it will get shot to pieces by the usual suspects on here. I don't know if Bowyer is on the right tracks in terms of the squad he has assembled or not. But what i do know is if you rewind to when we got relegated under Kean and all the murky rumblings which went hand in hand with his tenure, then Rovers nowadays seem to be a on a more morally sound footing. Whether you agree with Bowyer's appointment and subsequent performance is another matter. But i'd take this Rovers over that one every day of the week.

[broadsword]

Did you have to post that bob? Sold to pay the bills in the days when £400k solved a lot of problems! When Barker got the ball you could rely on something happening. If we had just one player today who could offer the same Saturdays would be more fun.

Maybe I'm mad but I always thought he looked like Keith Chegwin.

[Paul]

Big fan of Cheggers

http://www.sportresolutions.co.uk/library-media/images/Simon_Barker_100.jpg

http://theothersideofparis.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/keith-chegwin-ontwitter.jpg

[Parsonblue]

In theory, Gary's three year plan may well be the right way to go but, unfortunately, no manager is going to be given three years by either owners or fans if the club is losing matches on a regular basis. The lack of quality in the squad was there for all to see at Doncaster on Friday. As we found in the late 60s through to the time when Jack took over, fans will not shell out money to watch poor quality football. It becomes a vicious circle - attendances and income drop, the quality of players becomes poorer and any gems that you unearth - Simon Barker being a good example - have to be sold to pay the bills. Relegation from the Premier League could not have come at a worse time for the Rovers for the new money being pumped into the Premier clubs will simply widen the gap between the Rovers and the elite of English football. Indeed, the only way to sustain a wage bill that would allow good quality players to be brought to the club was for Premier League status to be retained at all costs. It's just a pity that our owners couldn't grasp that simple concept.

[Gav]

Did you have to post that bob? Sold to pay the bills in the days when £400k solved a lot of problems! When Barker got the ball you could rely on something happening. If we had just one player today who could offer the same Saturdays would be more fun.

I was gutted when he left, but understood the reasoning, 400k saved the club from going under and helped pay the milkman.

We had nowt, happy days though...!

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

A few pages back I compared the Forest home result from last season to the one from this as an example of our decline in quality, and someone pointed out we were lucky in that game. Us being described as lucky was also a recurring theme in the 8 games under Kean at the start of the season. As much as it galled me defending Kean I remember making the argument then that you can't put 14 points in 8 games down to luck. If you get outplayed in 1 game and win, its down to luck. If you get outplayed in 10 and win 6, it aint lucky, it might appear to be but there's gotta be a proper reason for it. In my opinion being "outplayed" and winning doesn't necessarily come down to luck, its about what your players' strengths are in comparison to the opposition. A midfield of oldish ex-PL players would get beat in pace and stamina, and so would therefore they'd concede the majority of possession. What they'd win at is having far more idea of what to do with possession when they had it.

Better point out here that I'm talking about how those players would play under Bowyer, not the totally **** managers that were Berg and Appleton. So under Bowyer, Pedersen might get to the bye-line half as much as Judge, but his final delivery would be twice as good. He's also a far better finisher, scores the odd free kick, plonked numerous corners directly on Dann's head last season, and knows exactly how to cover defensively. Comparing Murphy and Etuhu to Lowe and Marrow, well (again under Bowyer), I'd expect better decision making in the final third. Lowe and Marrow know how to run around and pass it sideways, but get them in the opposition half and they're stumped. Bentley (under Bowyer) I'd expect to work his way back towards at least Pedersen's level, so its the same argument against Taylor as my argument for Pedersen against Judge.

What I'm trying to say is our current midfield could have 55 minutes of possession and create 1 good chance (like on Friday). That oldies midfield could have 35 minutes of possession and create 5 good chances (like under Kean last season). And I also think they'd look after our full-backs a bit better. Maybe Kane and Morris are just being found out, or maybe they're playing behind wingers who are so busy bombing forward on fruitless runs that they can't track back.

What happens re our opponents who will therefore be gifted 55 minutes of possession by your ' Oldies' team ? You'll be relying on them to waste most of it. Unfortunately that hasn't happened so far.

Parson, you keep mentioning that we had a bad team in the late sixties. We had Keith Newton, Wilson, Hunter, Stuart Metcalfe, Eamon Rogers, Ken Knighton, Barry Hole, John Connelly etc. All players who'd walk into this team. If they played each other the late 60's team would batter the current side. Only the early 1970's team before we got our act together again can be compared to our current side.

[rovers11]

Jan Aage Fjortoft ‏@JanAageFjortoft19m

Morten Gamst Pedersen very close at signing for FC Copenhagen.
#BRFC

[Parsonblue]

What happens re our opponents who will therefore be gifted 55 minutes of possession by your ' Oldies' team ? You'll be relying on them to waste most of it. Unfortunately that hasn't happened so far.

Parson, you keep mentioning that we had a bad team in the late sixties. We had Keith Newton, Wilson, Hunter, Stuart Metcalfe, Eamon Rogers, Ken Knighton, Barry Hole, John Connelly etc. All players who'd walk into this team. If they played each other the late 60's team would batter the current side. Only the early 1970's team before we got our act together again can be compared to our current side.

The late sixties is when the decline set. After England was sold we bought well in Barrie Hole and John Connelly in particular. However, gradually the standard of signing between 1968 and 1970 decline - remember Frank Lord, Jim Fryatt, John Coddington, Les Chappell, Frank Kopel, Laurie Calloway, Brian Hill etc. Hole and Fergie were sold fairly quickly after we failed to get back in 1966-67, Newton, and Knighton had both gone before our relegation to the Third Division and Hunter went soon after. The likes of Connelly, Blacklaw etc were released as they were coming to the end of their careers.

I agree that the team we had in 1966-67 was light years ahead of what we have now but the point I was making was that as good players were sold during the period from 1966 to 1970 they were replaced with inferior ones and when we did buy a decent player, Barrie Hole for example, they were soon sold on for profit. To my mind that is exactly what Venky's have done ever since they set foot in the club.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

What happens re our opponents who will therefore be gifted 55 minutes of possession by your ' Oldies' team ? You'll be relying on them to waste most of it. Unfortunately that hasn't happened so far.

Has it not? We've conceded 4 league goals and 2 of them were down to a stupid handball and a cross that accidentally went in. I'd say being wasteful in possession is one thing you can rely on the opposition to do in the Championship, for me its the biggest difference between that and the Premiership.

[yoda]

What happens re our opponents who will therefore be gifted 55 minutes of possession by your ' Oldies' team ? You'll be relying on them to waste most of it. Unfortunately that hasn't happened so far.

Parson, you keep mentioning that we had a bad team in the late sixties. We had Keith Newton, Wilson, Hunter, Stuart Metcalfe, Eamon Rogers, Ken Knighton, Barry Hole, John Connelly etc. All players who'd walk into this team. If they played each other the late 60's team would batter the current side. Only the early 1970's team before we got our act together again can be compared to our current side.

the 1975 team would not only batter the current one, the referee would stop the game for humane reasons

[thenodrog]

I was gutted when he left, but understood the reasoning, 400k saved the club from going under and helped pay the milkman.

We had nowt, happy days though...!

Hardly happy days gav but the previous 15-20 years had served to lower our expectations to realsitic levels... not like so many of the Under 30's have now.

[Mercer]

Don't know the credibility of this guy but would not be a surprise.

FootyAgentNorth ‏@FootyAgentNorth 18m

Just heard west brom have made a 7.75m bid for Rhodes.