[Archived] Has this community lost its community spirit?

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

I can only look on this from a newcomer's perspective but 2 reasons I'd guess at it being down to are:

1. The state of the club in general - in good times fans are happy and creative, in bad times angry and looking for someone to blame. This is evident in other aspects of the club as well as this board. The Darwen End lot for example under Allardyce brought flags to games, introduced many new songs, raised money for things, and were generally regarded as a breath of fresh air and great contributors to the atmosphere. Now they're as stagnant and miserable as everyone else at Ewood and are regarded as a bunch of juvenile chavs.

2. The growing membership of the board - the bigger something gets, the less close a community it feels. It seems to me as the club has declined most of the once 5-6 other Rovers boards have died off and all their members have migrated to this one, swelling its size. I don't actually know whether this is the case but I'd guess that there were less members who each posted more often back in the old days.

[darrenrover]

I've got to say hands up, I've been guilty of letting emotions run away with themselves, engaging keypad before brain is in gear, in the past.

I would much prefer a forum where you can post your opinions or factual knowledge without automatically being on the defensive because someone wants to have a pop or snipe at you.

I guess to some extent we've all had a lot to contend with over the past thirty odd months and because we care, say things that you wouldn't normally.

Sad if Mercer leaves the MB, I enjoy reading his posts although don't always agree with them but c'est la vie n'est pas?

Perhaps a MB accepted code of conduct may help, apologies if there already is one. Ultimately I guess it's about mutual respect.

[des]

having been a member for more them 10 years I like a lot of older members have seem a slight dowmward curve. This could be a sign of the times and the downturn in our club.

Its great that people have differement views that ok, but its how there are both said and replyed to, it just take a bit though first

[thenodrog]

No great mystery is it? Supporter's interest has simply waned in all things BRFC. ST's and attendances have halved cos of the unpopularity of Venky's inept and stubbornly intransigent tenure. We have fought and lost and as a result many supporters have succumbed to the futility of the situation and have simply turned away from the club. The downturn in posting on here is just a by-product imo.

[Proudtobeblue&white]

No great mystery is it? Supporter's interest has simply waned in all things BRFC. ST's and attendances have halved cos of the unpopularity of Venky's inept and stubbornly intransigent tenure. We have fought and lost and as a result many supporters have succumbed to the futility of the situation and have simply turned away from the club. The downturn in posting on here is just a by-product imo.

Bob on, sorry, Gor don yep, still undecided whether to renew, probably won't, and will pick the odd game as a result. I accept the FFP rules, but get the impression the baby is a toddler now, and they tried disastrously to make it walk too soon. Now they will let it toddle off into the distance. Let the caretaker take over, and see what happens with a few bob to spend?

As for our spirit, the above is a symptom yet again of the greater ill. Few militant posters, so what, we know their like, ignore, carry on. Our club is still in the balance. We all have a view. Debate is healthy, division not so.

[Majiball]

[Paul]

This is a topic that keeps getting raised on other threads, maybe it's something we need to resolve and get on top of before it's too late.

This messageboard used to be a great community. I've travelled abroad and roomed with members of this site, I've sat on a bus in lithuania for 8 hours with members of this site, I've been to the player of the year awards as a guest of a member of this site, I've played football in Salzburg with members of this site, I've had many a drunken curry in Darwen with members of this site, I've walked through Cologne at 4am eating cakes with members of this site, got smashed on Jaegar pre Man City away with members of this site, arranged for a fellow member's son to be a mascot at a game...... they've put me up for nights when I've been stranded, they've bought me beers when I've ran out of cash, they've just basicaly been friends, very good friends indeed.

Now I see less and less of them posting on here, is it becasue we're all getting older, is it because the football's not so good anymore, or is it because the whole atmosphere on here has changed?

.

I'm with you Ricky. I've met and made friends with great people I would never have met without BRFCS. That epitomises the spirit of the board and the club. Hell I even had Charlie's girlfriend holding my hand when I was in bits at Wolves!!!

There's a lot of reasons the board has changed and many good posters have been lost.

For me the biggest change is the, in my view overly, strict adherence to a thread topic. Time was when the threads flowed and meandered like a pub conversation. Doesn't happen these days and I feel it's to the detriment of the conversation.

[Leonard Venkhater]

No great mystery is it? Supporter's interest has simply waned in all things BRFC. ST's and attendances have halved cos of the unpopularity of Venky's inept and stubbornly intransigent tenure. We have fought and lost and as a result many supporters have succumbed to the futility of the situation and have simply turned away from the club. The downturn in posting on here is just a by-product imo.

Yes...but these things can and do change .Do you remember how the mood suddenly changed without warning, when Furphy came in...around November 1971, when we were 3rd bottom of the old Div 3.

Right now I sense a subtle shift from the previous despair/apathy...something about Agnew's departure..the sidlining of Singh...(well hopefully,) Gary Bowyers more authentic presence, some seemingly sensible stuff in player movement...there is a sense that things are on the up...green shoots etc...I scarcely dare hope..

.As a new member of this site, all I can say is I wish I had discovered it earlier. It might have helped nurse me through the first two stages of loss..denial/isolation...anger...I think I am somewhere in between the anger and depression stage now,

,I have watched this and other sites, as little battles erupt between people who are basically of the same Rovers religion. I always want to remind them to think who the enemies really are...i.e. not fellow supporters....

[Gally]

I don't know how it was in years gone by, but it seems to me that a lot of the sniping comes from the total dearth of information.

Plenty come on here simply to talk about Rovers, but in recent years (for all clubs) message boards have become a better, more up to date way to get news about a team than through bbc, sky et al.

The last few years have been traumatic for the football club, and we don't know enough about our situation to agree about the most basic of things. We all know that Kean was a bad manager, we know that the squad is weaker than it was, we know that our owners are basically unhelpful, but that's as far as it goes.

An example of what I'm talking about is the way that arguments about the protests were conducted on here. On the face of it was simply those who were for the protests against those who more cautious. But really, it was probably more people who thought (possibly correctly) they had a better idea of what was going on behind the scenes, arguing with those who still thought we were operating as a normal football club.

There may well be some who have sussed our plight out completely, and have made as good an attempt at explaining it as possible. Nevertheless, as a community of fans, we're pretty oblivious about our financial future, about whether our owners are just intensely thick or more sinister, or which posters are well informed/sincere and those who aren't.

All of this is just my opinion, but if as a group of fans we're not all singing from the same hymnsheet when it comes to these basic and important things, then it's little wonder there has been so much backbiting when discussing them.

[Leonard Venkhater]

I don't know how it was in years gone by, but it seems to me that a lot of the sniping comes from the total dearth of information.

Plenty come on here simply to talk about Rovers, but in recent years (for all clubs) message boards have become a better, more up to date way to get news about a team than through bbc, sky et al.

The last few years have been traumatic for the football club, and we don't know enough about our situation to agree about the most basic of things. We all know that Kean was a bad manager, we know that the squad is weaker than it was, we know that our owners are basically unhelpful, but that's as far as it goes.

An example of what I'm talking about is the way that arguments about the protests were conducted on here. On the face of it was simply those who were for the protests against those who more cautious. But really, it was probably more people who thought (possibly correctly) they had a better idea of what was going on behind the scenes, arguing with those who still thought we were operating as a normal football club.

There may well be some who have sussed our plight out completely, and have made as good an attempt at explaining it as possible. Nevertheless, as a community of fans, we're pretty oblivious about our financial future, about whether our owners are just intensely thick or more sinister, or which posters are well informed/sincere and those who aren't.

All of this is just my opinion, but if as a group of fans we're not all singing from the same hymnsheet when it comes to these basic and important things, then it's little wonder there has been so much backbiting when discussing them.

[ABBEY]

I'm with you Ricky. I've met and made friends with great people I would never have met without BRFCS. That epitomises the spirit of the board and the club. Hell I even had Charlie's girlfriend holding my hand when I was in bits at Wolves!!!

There's a lot of reasons the board has changed and many good posters have been lost.

For me the biggest change is the, in my view overly, strict adherence to a thread topic. Time was when the threads flowed and meandered like a pub conversation. Doesn't happen these days and I feel it's to the detriment of the conversation.

best post off you in ages ha..kiddding.

[Tom]

Stay on topic please Paul

[Leonard Venkhater]

A very good analysis.

Although not on any site, I did argue with fellow supporters and, as you say, it was partly based on lack of knowledge.

My arguments were during actual matches in the last premiership season. I was arguing with fans who booed Kean, when I thought the team needed the supporters on side. That was when I was still behaving in the mode of an ordinary football supporter in what was an abnormal context. I was so conscious of not wasting any semblance of home advantage. I don't know how I would have handled those games if I had have known what I found out later.

Since then, everybody is grieving but people have chosen different ways to deal with it. Last year I couldn't buy a season ticket, but who was I to condemn someone else who did?

Yes, the disagreements do stem from lack of knowledge. The problem is that the knowledge gap arises from the very lack of openness that signals the abusive culture that has been Rovers..

Sometimes, I feel our club has been stolen from us.

Fans may disagree about how to respond but they all want the same end result.

I am concerned that focusing anger on fellow fans is merely to take the spotlight of the real abusers...In this way, we actually mirror Talksport and the sh*t press in pathologising the victims.

[ABBEY]

In this way, we actually mirror Talksport and the sh*t press in pathologising the victims.

Alan Brazil .....Ste B

Collymore....... Chaddy

Moose ...........Mercerman

on a side note ,someone (not me Im off to bed,Early start) should start an ex member thread in icbinf with alist and see if we can get comment off them.

[patrickvalery]

I don't think there have been too many victims on here to be honest. Those who get the abuse generally either seek or deserve it. There have been some instances where that hasn't been the case I'll admit. But in the whole I think most people adhere to the unwritten rule that if someone post respectfully they get treated as such. But I guess those who deserve or seek it actually receiving the abuse does make for dull reading for everyone else.

From my own point of view this messageboard has proven to have some extremely generous members. On the admittedly rare occasions that I manage to make the trip up from Southampton I have spent time with posters on here who have offered up great company and hospitality. I suspect they gave up saturday evenings with their nearest and dearest by showing me about and having a good drink in the process. Something they didn't need to do. Some good good people on here and I'd rather focus on them than waste time on the disrespectful ones.

[Uddersfelt Blue]

It's pretty obvious that there has been a decline in interest (and not just on this site) due to lack of success on the pitch and the circus that has been masquerading as Blackburn Rovers Football Club for the past 3 years.

However, we have to consider that there are now a multitude of other social media avenues and websites that fans can access e.g Twitter, Facebook, That is an inevitable result of progress in communication technology.

But we must bear in mind that we are still a community of Rovers fans and any issues will be quickly forgotten once the Club get back on an even keel. Nothing that a bit of success won't cure

[Glenn]

For those of you that have helped out behind the scenes, you'll probably know I've asked the same question myself of the mods/backroomers pretty much every year for over a decade. I really really miss how it used to be, but over time (and to be fair, day job that means I have to scrutinize lots of different forums) I've come to realise it's both inevitable and nearly impossible to fix, however that doesn't mean we shouldn't try. I live for community and whilst the site is now successful (by most traditional yardsticks) that it's ever been, I'd swap it all for the community feel we used to have in a heartbeat. Like many of the "old school" who have posted on here, some of my best times as a Rovers fan have been through this community and I'd do anything to get it back.

The first thing to work out is who the forum is for. We're actually attracting more visitors than ever before, even though even I feel the quality of the discussion in general has plummeted. So, is our membership the 1% of people who you see posts from? A very large number of the old posters are actually still visiting very very regularly, they just seem to have lost the desire to posting. The reasons for this are many, but I think have mostly already been mentioned

1. The fact the posting on forums (not just ours, forums in general) has developed into a combat sport, where you people feel the need to be able to defend themselves against a barrage of abuse for stating an opinion

2. Mobiles. We now get way more traffic from mobiles that we do PCs. Reading is easy on a mobile, but posting is much harder

3. We the fans are down, nobody feels like posting ..... and lets face it we've been down for a long time now, though I am detecting the initial signs of a silver lining and a raise in spirits.

4. The internet is a different place these days. Back when the site started it was a much more limited demographic that found us. Our moderation policy has helped with this a lot (and if you disagree, got read the Rovers facebook group, or the comments on the LT) but not enough.

5. News has changed. We simply can't compete with the likes of twitter for breaking news, which means there is now much more focus on discussion and debate.

6. We just got too big. Over the last few nights I've been sorting trips to Doncaster, Bournemouth and Yoevile and it just hit me that every single person involved I know through BRFCS (bar my wife). Likewise I'm sorting a ski trip for next year and quite a number of the first people said they were up for it were people I know through BRFCS. But we're just to big to organise that now, hell, if you knew the hassle Dawn went through to organise the coffin ceremony, you'd never organise a public event in your life, it's much easier to be small and unofficial.

Our fan base has changed a lot too. We used to organise fan meet ups, both as games and other events, I used to live for these, but sadly as our readership increased, we started to attract more numpties in real life. We started sharing which pubs we were drinking in a games privately instead of public and it was brought to a head when for the Sportsman's dinner we genuinely discussed the need to hire security (thankfully we didn't and the night went off brilliantly)!

People have also got used to the internet being free and don't get that we do this in our free time for fellow fans, not any other reason. The number of complaints we get now is massive compare to a few years ago, and some pretty nasty complaints at that. This week alone I've felt compelled to answer currently banned members, who have taken objection to our "obviously biased" and "agenda driven" moderation. Ironically one was complaining we were pandering to those with an anti-Venky's agenda, whilst the other was claiming we were obviously banning anything or anyone that spoke out against the club or the owners.

Over the years we've discussed a large number of options to address things, we've even experimented with some. It's interesting some people have suggested we limit the number of posts people make per day, well, we actually already do this for a number of users that were high volume/low quality.

Other ideas we've discussed (but not tried yet)

• A "bear pit" section of the forum where "robust debate" is welcome, and making it far less acceptable elsewhere
• Having a members-only section or possibly even an entire other site. Though oddly, we never once discussed monetizing it, I really wouldn't like that, but we did discuss a country-club style membership where every member needed a proposer and seconder and their conduct would impact their sponsor's membership. I genuinely think this could have revolutionised forums in general, but selling the idea that "cliques are a good things" is a tough sell.
• Setting up private areas for like minded individual (we even wrote some very very clever software based on the old "like" system we had that gave people access to groups based on who liked their content).
• Zero moderation to Zero tolerance moderation
• Closing the forum part of the site altogether and replacing it with a Facebook page.

I'm particularly wanting to hear your feedback on which of those idea would work and which wouldn't (for a while we were a little bit hamstrung on what and how we could moderate due to the stupid laws in this country, but thankfully they've recently changed, which means we can now pretty much moderate how we want to again.

The truth is, if you want things to got back to how they were, the old posters need to stop lurking, start posting again and show everyone how it's done. As somebody nailed earlier, people were scared to post because they felt they had to be sure they could keep up with the quality.

Additionally, that's a bloody long post, but if you've made it that far, then you may be able to help us out (you certainly have the time and thoroughness to). We're massively short handed, those of us that have been around since Lee's days have gone from been beer-swilling hedonistic students now have demanding jobs and families and we simply don't have time like we used to, I know in the past I've asked for help and then been so over run with work I've completely failed to get back to people (sorry!), but I'm asking again. It's not just mods, we have all kinds of projects planned we simply don't have the time to implement. If you want to help, just email [email protected]

[West Yorks Rover]

For those of you that have helped out behind the scenes, you'll probably know I've asked the same question myself of the mods/backroomers pretty much every year for over a decade. I really really miss how it used to be, but over time (and to be fair, day job that means I have to scrutinize lots of different forums) I've come to realise it's both inevitable and nearly impossible to fix, however that doesn't mean we shouldn't try. I live for community and whilst the site is now successful (by most traditional yardsticks) that it's ever been, I'd swap it all for the community feel we used to have in a heartbeat. Like many of the "old school" who have posted on here, some of my best times as a Rovers fan have been through this community and I'd do anything to get it back.

The first thing to work out is who the forum is for. We're actually attracting more visitors than ever before, even though even I feel the quality of the discussion in general has plummeted. So, is our membership the 1% of people who you see posts from? A very large number of the old posters are actually still visiting very very regularly, they just seem to have lost the desire to posting. The reasons for this are many, but I think have mostly already been mentioned

1. The fact the posting on forums (not just ours, forums in general) has developed into a combat sport, where you people feel the need to be able to defend themselves against a barrage of abuse for stating an opinion

2. Mobiles. We now get way more traffic from mobiles that we do PCs. Reading is easy on a mobile, but posting is much harder

3. We the fans are down, nobody feels like posting ..... and lets face it we've been down for a long time now, though I am detecting the initial signs of a silver lining and a raise in spirits.

4. The internet is a different place these days. Back when the site started it was a much more limited demographic that found us. Our moderation policy has helped with this a lot (and if you disagree, got read the Rovers facebook group, or the comments on the LT) but not enough.

5. News has changed. We simply can't compete with the likes of twitter for breaking news, which means there is now much more focus on discussion and debate.

6. We just got too big. Over the last few nights I've been sorting trips to Doncaster, Bournemouth and Yoevile and it just hit me that every single person involved I know through BRFCS (bar my wife). Likewise I'm sorting a ski trip for next year and quite a number of the first people said they were up for it were people I know through BRFCS. But we're just to big to organise that now, hell, if you knew the hassle Dawn went through to organise the coffin ceremony, you'd never organise a public event in your life, it's much easier to be small and unofficial.

Our fan base has changed a lot too. We used to organise fan meet ups, both as games and other events, I used to live for these, but sadly as our readership increased, we started to attract more numpties in real life. We started sharing which pubs we were drinking in a games privately instead of public and it was brought to a head when for the Sportsman's dinner we genuinely discussed the need to hire security (thankfully we didn't and the night went off brilliantly)!

People have also got used to the internet being free and don't get that we do this in our free time for fellow fans, not any other reason. The number of complaints we get now is massive compare to a few years ago, and some pretty nasty complaints at that. This week alone I've felt compelled to answer currently banned members, who have taken objection to our "obviously biased" and "agenda driven" moderation. Ironically one was complaining we were pandering to those with an anti-Venky's agenda, whilst the other was claiming we were obviously banning anything or anyone that spoke out against the club or the owners.

Over the years we've discussed a large number of options to address things, we've even experimented with some. It's interesting some people have suggested we limit the number of posts people make per day, well, we actually already do this for a number of users that were high volume/low quality.

Other ideas we've discussed (but not tried yet)

• A "bear pit" section of the forum where "robust debate" is welcome, and making it far less acceptable elsewhere
• Having a members-only section or possibly even an entire other site. Though oddly, we never once discussed monetizing it, I really wouldn't like that, but we did discuss a country-club style membership where every member needed a proposer and seconder and their conduct would impact their sponsor's membership. I genuinely think this could have revolutionised forums in general, but selling the idea that "cliques are a good things" is a tough sell.
• Setting up private areas for like minded individual (we even wrote some very very clever software based on the old "like" system we had that gave people access to groups based on who liked their content).
• Zero moderation to Zero tolerance moderation
• Closing the forum part of the site altogether and replacing it with a Facebook page.

I'm particularly wanting to hear your feedback on which of those idea would work and which wouldn't (for a while we were a little bit hamstrung on what and how we could moderate due to the stupid laws in this country, but thankfully they've recently changed, which means we can now pretty much moderate how we want to again.

The truth is, if you want things to got back to how they were, the old posters need to stop lurking, start posting again and show everyone how it's done. As somebody nailed earlier, people were scared to post because they felt they had to be sure they could keep up with the quality.

Additionally, that's a bloody long post, but if you've made it that far, then you may be able to help us out (you certainly have the time and thoroughness to). We're massively short handed, those of us that have been around since Lee's days have gone from been beer-swilling hedonistic students now have demanding jobs and families and we simply don't have time like we used to, I know in the past I've asked for help and then been so over run with work I've completely failed to get back to people (sorry!), but I'm asking again. It's not just mods, we have all kinds of projects planned we simply don't have the time to implement. If you want to help, just email [email protected]

Personally I don't have a problem with the site it seems to work pretty damn well, compared to most other sites i visit.

I just think Rovers fans have been pretty fed up with their lot and tend to take it out on each other sometimes, this is just human nature.

I remember a couple of years ago when Man City thrashed us at Ewood, I visited one of their main boards afterwards, the posts were hilariously funny

and not a bad word between the posters,hardly surprising you may think, as they were on the crest of a wave at the time.then one of the mods

pointed out how well everyone seemed to be getting along recently and postings were at an all time high. then he highlighted a day from a few years back

the difference was unbelievable, I've certainly never seen anything quite so nasty on here, they were all but arranging punch-ups amongst themselves.

[American]

Too much point-scoring and back-biting going on.

Not nice.

It's been years since I posted or even visited for more than just a few minutes for just the reason above (came on because I saw this on FB).

[Drakefyre]

It's been years since I posted or even visited for more than just a few minutes for just the reason above (came on because I saw this on FB).

Exactly. I've never been a prolific poster but it just doesn't seem worth spending the time to create a thoughtful well-intentioned post when it's likely to get either sniped at or buried in-between two other members' long-running spats. And while there was plenty of sniping before, it was (mostly) playful banter - and funny at that.

[Miker]

I've been part of the messageboard for almost 6 years now I think, but I stopped posting over a year ago although I read the board virtually every day.

There's a couple of reasons I've stopped posting.

1. I've stopped seeing the point in posting because it just frustrates me and puts me in a bad mood. At the time when I decided to stop, there was no point in having discussions because there was just too much negativity surrounding every aspect of the club. Maybe negativity is the wrong word here actually, it was more of a hopelessness and a sense of futility.

2. Since dropping down to The Championship I can no longer watch games on TV, so I have even less to comment on and don't feel I can put forward a valid opinion during match days.

3. Being a younger Rovers fan living abroad I began feeling devalued as a poster because I was consistently told that my opinion is not as valid or important as that of a local's or someone who has been supporting Rovers for decades. I'm not actually complaining about this, I've actually accepted that this is mainly true and this has contributed to my lack of desire to post.

That said, I met up with Trevor (Wen Y Hu) and mattyc in Melbourne last year for a drink or two and a chat about Rovers and had a great time. My real life interactions with Rovers fans have generally been more pleasant than on the messageboard. However I commented to Trevor at the time that I thought this was by far the best Rovers fan forum and even football can forum online because the people posting on here tended to have very interesting backgrounds and despite discussions often descending into petty arguments, most posts were generally quite intelligent and reasoned. Ultimately online forums bring out the worst in all of us at times.

I think if things improve both on and off the field (as it seems to be currently) and there's less uncertainty around the club, things might improve on here as well. I'm sure more people would post as well if they were able to actually watch the games.

[dave birch]

I couldn't resist the urge to check out saxo1man on Roversmad and found this:

"re: brfcs

'saxo1man30' wrote at 19:23 on 02 Jul:

are you going to hound me on here now too?

I thought that's what had been happening for years now anyway.



You just seem to be a particularly tough skid mark to remove. BRFCS must
have some special new washing powder that removes all stains. Perhaps
we should knock on their door and ask to borrow a cupful."

Anyway, things change, they can't always be the way they used to be. If you do that, you get left behind.

All I would ask is, treat every post as someone's opinion, respond (if you must) in a polite manner.

Try to reduce the amount of quotes you use, If it's the post above you are replying to don't quote it unless it's a heavily responded to. That way others that have that person on ignore don't get so P'd off

I've been around since 1996, this site is just about rusted on, let's keep it entertaining, informative, and all about the Rovers fans enjoying each other's company.

[bob fleming]

My real life interactions with Rovers fans have generally been more pleasant than on the messageboard.

I think just by virtue of the fact we are having this discussion is a warning / reminder of how we should conduct ourselves on BRFCS. It should be pinned. Some points:

1. I know this isn't about individuals but the latest spout of silliness was bizarre to say the least. However, the general point here is that I find it a tad difficult to suffer fools, in fact as mentioned earlier in this thread by another poster I believe that some of the moderation has been a little easy going. Why should we suffer people who, after a very short space of time, reveal that their only intention is to be disruptive and antagonistic?

2. The Pub. Ah yes. The Pub. Remember them? That's exactly how it should be treated and this analogy has been around as long as I have been posting on here. This is why I've quoted Miker. I too have met many a BRFCS member in the pub and got along with all of them just fine. Funny that isn't it? It's about showing respect and indeed earning respect from your fellow messageboard members, just as you would if you went into a pub you don't normally frequent (there's a song in there somewhere) for the first time. You wouldn't go in all guns blazing shouting your opinions off, well you might, but it's unlikely you would receive the warm welcome you'd prefer.

That's not me coming on all "I've been on here for years blah blah blah" - it's pretty much a fact IMO. If I look back I'm sure I didn't quite "get it" when I first joined the forum but after a while you get to understand the culture a little better. Don't get me wrong I still need to pull myself up and maybe recently I let my standards slip (calling poster "x" an arse, although possibly warranted definitely isn't the way to go if we want to maintain standards) that's why I think that Ricky starting this thread will do a lot of good just by itself.

3. It's the summer. There's no footy. We have the same discussion nigh on every year about "standards" along with Accy having Nike as a kit sponsor. Also, I agree with many others in this thread, we've been put through the wringer over the last couple of years or so. This regime has been nothing but divisive but maybe, just maybe, things are improving. Some sensible decisions have been made recently (as sensible as they can get anyway).

4. Like any pub, it is what you make it. If you don't go in you can hardly affect the atmosphere. It would be great if those long time posters who have stopped posting would come back.

[Alex Rover]

I think one or two just need to reflect that we are now a different club we were a few years ago. Lose some of the anger and bitterness. Times have changed in many ways and perhaps a few just need to try and accept it. Good times rarely last in football and boy did we do well out our good times. Ups and downs are all part of it. They will come again but perhaps not any time soon.

We were punching above our weight so have we now found our level in terms of league, money we can spend and signings we can attract? Maybe but we are here now so lets be realistic in expectations. If anyone posts along these lines they very often get shot at for being accepting or even supporters of Venky's. Most of the time they have just come to accept reality better than others.

[dave birch]

I'll tell you what will improve things.......

get everyone who posts to use their real name.