Cricket

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

The wickets and climatic conditions in England aren't conducive to outright fast bowling unfortunately. Fast medium bowlers  using swing and seaming the ball off the wicket have traditionally been how fast bowlers have had success over here. Until that changes really quick English bowlers will be as rare as hens teeth.

Edited December 17, 2017 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[matt83]

http://kwese.espn.com/cricket/story/_/id/21781972/sense-inevitability-england-toil-trouble

Interesting article particularly on broad. 

[chaddyrovers]

3 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

The wickets and climatic conditions in England aren't conducive to outright fast bowling unfortunately. Fast medium bowlers  using swing and seaming the ball off the wicket have traditionally been how fast bowlers have had success over here. Until that changes really quick English bowlers will be as rare as hens teeth.

Well until Counties realised that their main job is to produce international quality players. 

Would like to see Tom Curran given a chance in the test team. Also Crane for Ali aswell if Stokes comes back in test. 

Pitches quality need to be improved quickly. 

 

3 hours ago, matt83 said:

http://kwese.espn.com/cricket/story/_/id/21781972/sense-inevitability-england-toil-trouble

Interesting article particularly on broad. 

Thanks for link. 

Can see Board being drop shortly. Not produce in 3 test in Australia. Look like 2 yards of his natural pace. 

[Norbert Rassragr]

Broad is one of those untouchables who will never be dropped. He should have gone quite a while ago as he only produces one or two insanely effective sessions every year (e.g. the 8/15 during the last Ashes). He can't bowl to the tail end, can't bat and has no bowling brain.

[chaddyrovers]

I expect changes after this ashes series by Bayliss, Root and Strauss. 

Think selectors will be change and any players who drink alot will be gone. 

I dont know who these players are but after Bayliss comments he fed up with it

[Baz]

2 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

I expect changes after this ashes series by Bayliss, Root and Strauss. 

Think selectors will be change and any players who drink alot will be gone. 

I dont know who these players are but after Bayliss comments he fed up with it

Nobody would care about the drinking, if we where winning.

I don' think the Aussies have particularly better players, they just want it more, that's the gutting thing for me. Yes the pitches suit their bowlers, but that works both ways when they come here. I've said for a long time, at test level you need a couple of players who will just stick to the task of staying in, and if it means scoring runs slowly so be it. We have a team of decent quality shot makers, but no-one capable of occupying a crease for hours on end. Every good day for England on the tour has been surrounded by a fight back by the Aussies- that's attitude and character. Some of the 'shots' played at 350-4 where pathetic as though the test was as good as won. 

[chaddyrovers]

Hameed need to come into the squad for New Zealand test series in place of Ballance who is not good enough for Test Cricket. 

@Baz I agree that Aussies have better players but their key players like Smith, Starc, Lyon, Cummins and Hazelwood have performed whilst our key players Root, Anderson, Broad and Cook haven't. 

Malan and Bairstow batted very good in the 1st innings and Vince played well in the second innings until the great ball from Starc. Vince has the game to be a success at test level but need to stop getting out to silly shots outside his off stump

If we do lose this test and the ashes then we hopefully will see Tom Curran, Mason Crane and Ben Foakes will come into the test side for last 2 matches. I wouldn't be bringing in Ballance tho.

Will Stokes be back for the New Zealand test series? we need back or see if they is another all rounder out there who can take his place.  

 

[philipl]

We didn't so much lose as shoot ourselves and surrendered.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Same as the football team. We're breeding nice guys who aren't winners. We can't deal with pressure, as soon as the going gets really tough we roll over. We've never white washed the Aussies because we lack that killer instinct. As soon as we win the Ashes it's game over let's all go out and get pissed. With the Ausses it's let's make it 5-0.

The bottom line is they wanted it more.

[chaddyrovers]

We dont have the fast bowlers to complete in Australia. 

Broad, Root and Cook havent performed because the Aussies bowlers are quicker and quality. 

Broad pace is down and isnt he was 2 years ago. Woakes hasnt played in Oz before. 

Do we need to drop some players? Yes I would be dropping Broad and Ali at least. Bringing in Curran and Crane. 

Our newer Batsmans have performed. Malan look good, Stoneman and Vince have tough it out in hard testing conditions which is why it called Test cricket. 

Cook looks not the player he once was. Has his time come to a end? 

Root hasnt got hundreds when he got in. Which is disappointing but still averaging 50+ as captain. 

David Lloyd yesterday name some fast bowlers with pace who England some be looking to bring in the future. Here the list:- Tom Helm , Olly Stone, George Garton, Josh Tongue ... and an older one , Ric Gleeson. Does anyone know alot about these?

I would like to see an overhaul of the selectors with ex players like David Lloyd and Mike Atherton who see alot of county cricket on the selectors committee. Sure other people will have other ideas. 

[Baz]

On 19/12/2017 at 14:54, chaddyrovers said:

We dont have the fast bowlers to complete in Australia. 

Broad, Root and Cook havent performed because the Aussies bowlers are quicker and quality. 

Broad pace is down and isnt he was 2 years ago. Woakes hasnt played in Oz before. 

Do we need to drop some players? Yes I would be dropping Broad and Ali at least. Bringing in Curran and Crane. 

Our newer Batsmans have performed. Malan look good, Stoneman and Vince have tough it out in hard testing conditions which is why it called Test cricket. 

Cook looks not the player he once was. Has his time come to a end? 

Root hasnt got hundreds when he got in. Which is disappointing but still averaging 50+ as captain. 

David Lloyd yesterday name some fast bowlers with pace who England some be looking to bring in the future. Here the list:- Tom Helm , Olly Stone, George Garton, Josh Tongue ... and an older one , Ric Gleeson. Does anyone know alot about these?

I would like to see an overhaul of the selectors with ex players like David Lloyd and Mike Atherton who see alot of county cricket on the selectors committee. Sure other people will have other ideas. 

Broad and Ali are top quality players, replacing them with a couple of novices will almost certainly ensure a 5-0. Want to try out new blood, try in the games vs New Zealand.

[chaddyrovers]

7 hours ago, Baz said:

Broad and Ali are top quality players, replacing them with a couple of novices will almost certainly ensure a 5-0. Want to try out new blood, try in the games vs New Zealand.

Broad pace isnt fast enough to make him effective on Aussies wickets. 

Ali isnt good enough to be England 1st choice spinner overseas. 

[Kamy100]

Broad and Moeen have had one really bad series no need to panic and completely drop them.  Ditto Cook.  

I am not excusing the performances in the Ashes as they have been pathetic but you cannot just drop everyone and start all over again.  We have struggled in Australian conditions previously so this is no major surprise.  

[Gav]

17 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Broad pace isnt fast enough to make him effective on Aussies wickets. 

Ali isnt good enough to be England 1st choice spinner overseas. 

You could well be right, but sadly we have nobody better Chaddy.

Moeen has had a fantastic year, deserved his place, and Broad who I've never liked to be honest has the stats and performances to justify his place.

In Auz you need pace in attack, we don't have it at the moment, simple as that.

From a batting perspective we've been awful, with a couple of exceptions, not good enough, but lets hope we win the next 2 to build a bit of confidence.

 

[chaddyrovers]

6 hours ago, Gav said:

You could well be right, but sadly we have nobody better Chaddy.

Moeen has had a fantastic year, deserved his place, and Broad who I've never liked to be honest has the stats and performances to justify his place.

In Auz you need pace in attack, we don't have it at the moment, simple as that.

From a batting perspective we've been awful, with a couple of exceptions, not good enough, but lets hope we win the next 2 to build a bit of confidence.

 

Gav here are Broad's stats for each year and this year record isnt good enough. 

http://www.howstat.com/cricket/Statistics/Players/PlayerProgressBowl.asp?PlayerId=3434&Year=2017

I have listened to an interview by Alec Stewart who said Tom Curran should come into the team. Glenn McGrath said yesterday Broad should be drop. He is one of the greatest fast bowler ever. 

Gav, like Ive said previously Ali isnt good enough to be England 1st choice spinner in overseas conditions. Doesnt spin it enough. Ali is a Batsman first spinner second. 

[Mattyblue]

We'll knock India over in the summer in seaming and swinging conditions and this will all be forgotten, just like four years ago.

We'll continue to shoehorn the County Championship into the early and late parts of the season when the pitches are doing plenty, meaning counties don't need 90mph fast bowlers, as a 75/80mph trundler can take plenty of wickets in those conditions, or to even play a spinner. 

Then we'll go to Aus in 2021 and lose 5-0 again.

[den]

38 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

We'll knock India over in the summer in seaming and swinging conditions and this will all be forgotten, just like four years ago.

We'll continue to shoehorn the County Championship into the early and late parts of the season when the pitches are doing plenty, meaning counties don't need 90mph fast bowlers, as a 75/80mph trundler can take plenty of wickets in those conditions, or to even play a spinner. 

Then we'll go to Aus in 2021 and lose 5-0 again.

We can only bring bowlers up to play in English conditions Matty. In England bowlers must move the ball. I can’t see how or why that should change to be honest. 

[Mattyblue]

You can swing a bowl at 90mph, you can hit the seam at 90mph. Watch Dale Steyn in his pomp. Or Wasim Akram or the classic Windies bowlers. Darren Gough and Flintoff had more bite than the current crop.

I've read that a lot of our young bowlers can move the ball at pace, however once the Engalnd set up gets hold of them, they are that worried about fine tuning their action to avoid injuries that they lose the 'real' pace they once had.

We are fine to carry on as we are and we'll win most of our home series, but we won't win on Oz pitches any time soon, but I could see them winning here.

 

Edited December 22, 2017 by Mattyblue

[den]

2 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

You can swing a bowl at 90mph, you can hit the seam at 90mph. Watch Dale Steyn in his pomp. Or Wasim Akram or the classic Windies bowlers. Darren Gough and Flintoff had more bite than the current crop.

I've read that a lot of our young bowlers can move the ball at pace, however once the Engalnd set up gets hold of them, they are that worried about fine tuning their action to avoid injuries that they lose the 'real' pace they once had.

We are fine to carry on as we are and we'll win most of our home series, but we won't win on Oz pitches any time soon, but I could see them winning here.

 

Yes, I agree with you. We’ve always struggled in Oz because the bowling conditions are completely different. I can also understand why the coaches slow them down a bit over here (if they do?). Movement of the ball has to be controlled movement. It’s no good swinging the ball around if it’s not in the right areas and that’s much easier to do if it’s done at a slightly lower pace. In Oz, bowlers just need to have pace. As we see all the time there’s little for the medium pacer out there. Oz gives bowlers all the encouragement to bowl as quickly as they can, while in England it’s exactly the opposite.

I don’t think we really differ very much Matty. That’s just the way it is.

 

[Mattyblue]

The problem I see is the difference between home and away conditions are getting bigger and bigger, or at least the away sides problems with dealing with said conditions, not good for Test cricket to see so many away sides rolling over.

Look at India over here a couple of years ago, and then England getting battered in India, think I read that the SCG hardly ever sees an in play Test series, usually a dead rubber by the time the last Test of the summer reaches Sydney.

The fact tours are crammed in these days, with no proper warm up matches won't help. Nowt we can do about it with the schedules as they are, but not good for the format.

Edited December 22, 2017 by Mattyblue

[den]

Getting back to pace, I agree that an English bowler with 90+ mph speed and control would be fantastic and I think we’ve had a few over the years. Trying to do that over here nowadays though for an entire career on the softer ground must be so difficult. I doubt that in today’s cricket, with so many games now, it’s possible. How do we encourage bowlers to bowl flat out over here for their entire career? You have to try to give them the wicket to bowl on. 

Sorry Matty, I’m going round in circles.

[jim mk2]

Finn, Wood and Plunkett are all faster bowlers than the players on tour, players who get bounce out of faster pitches, but Finn and Wood unfortunately are injured and Plunkett didn't play alot last summer because of fitness problems and is regarded as a ODI bowler these days. Roland-Jones is injured too and would almost certainly been on tour. Finn and Wood were big losses, and coupled with the loss of Stokes, it's little wonder England's attack has lacked variety and looked toothless. 

[Norbert Rassragr]

Finn is too unreliable. 60% of the time he's a buffet bowler.

Anyway, it has been bothering me that Steve Smith's face reminds me of someone. I've now realised he looks like a goomba from the Super Mario film with Bob Hoskins.

http://i67.tinypic.com/2j3ibdx.jpg

 

[chaddyrovers]

Very disappointed that Crane isnt playing on a pitch that will spin day 3, 4 and 5..

Broad should have been drop for this test. Been poor in 2017. 

 

[Gav]

Poor start once again by England, no chances at all, on a great batting wicket granted.

Think its TMS through the night and bit of shut eye, its going to be a long test match, AGAIN.