Cricket

[chaddyrovers]

Those 3 overs cost England massively. 

That's over from Jordan was truly pathetic and Woakes's over was awful. No yorkers bowled or short balls 

Disappointed as after 16 overs the game was England 

[Gav]

16 minutes ago, AllRoverAsia said:

Look no further than Jordan. Monumentally crap over.

Good slogging by the Kiwis.

He's been brilliant for years for England, that over could happen to anyone in T20, Livingston should have taken the catch.

I guess NZ owed us one.....class acts not taking a run when blocking Rashid getting to the ball. 

Edited November 10, 2021 by Gav

[Silas]

33 minutes ago, Gav said:

.....class acts not taking a run when blocking Rashid getting to the ball. 

Fantastic sportsmanship. 👏

[AllRoverAsia]

15 hours ago, Gav said:

He's been brilliant for years for England, that over could happen to anyone in T20, Livingston should have taken the catch.

I guess NZ owed us one.....class acts not taking a run when blocking Rashid getting to the ball. 

He should have, He was the best positioned. I don't think he expected Bairstow to stop too. Neither did I.

[47er]

Hard to take that one. Going into the competition I really thought we would win it. 4 terrific performances in a row and I was sure we would!

That's 20-20 though, anything can happen in any given match.

Would be a farce if Australia won it after the way we mauled them. I suppose you have to get mauled at the right time, not a semi-final!

 

[Riversider28]

Very disappointing, but I don’t feel too bad that it was New Zealand that beat us. Let’s hope they go on to win it. Time to do a Peter Kay and put on a Pakistan shirt this afternoon. We don’t want those bloody cheaters going through.

[Riversider28]

Bloody Hell!!!!!

[Gav]

Plenty of high profile players and ex-players not coming out of this racism scandal well.

Bumble, Hoggard, Bresnan, Hales and Root all named today in the Azeem Rafiq hearing.

Listening to Azeems account was heartbreaking, the abuse this lad suffered. I thought this was a thing of the past, shocking and this won’t end here.

Edited November 16, 2021 by Gav

[den]

6 minutes ago, Gav said:

Plenty of high profile players and ex-players not coming out of this racism scandal well.

Bumble, Hoggard, Bresnan, Hales and Root all named today in the Azeem Rafiq hearing.

Listening to Azeems account was heartbreaking, the abuse this lad suffered. I thought this was a thing of the past, shocking and this won’t end here.

 

[oldjamfan1]

3 hours ago, Gav said:

Plenty of high profile players and ex-players not coming out of this racism scandal well.

Bumble, Hoggard, Bresnan, Hales and Root all named today in the Azeem Rafiq hearing.

Listening to Azeems account was heartbreaking, the abuse this lad suffered. I thought this was a thing of the past, shocking and this won’t end here.

Gav I think we need to be careful about bandying Joe Root’s name about in relation to this issue. The lad explicitly said that Root had not made any racist remarks and any speculation that “he must have turned a blind eye” must be tempered with Azeem’s own words “Even a good man like Joe didn’t challenge it”.

A massive ‘not guilty’ as far as the England captain is concerned. I’m not convinced the former England captain is quite so innocent though. 
 

Edit: And I don’t quite know what to make of Bumble’s comments. “Well, a clubhouse is the lifeblood of a club, and Asian players don't go in there" doesn’t sound particularly racist and in the East Lancs Cricket Club thread on this very forum a few of us have offered similar theories as to the demise of that club. It’s a simple fact and I would need to know the context within which he said it before lumping him in with the Gary Ballances of this world.

I guess what I’m saying is I don’t particularly care for the blunderbuss approach that seems to be being taken here. 

Edited November 16, 2021 by oldjamfan1

[Kamy100]

It is shocking to hear the level of what Azeem has suffered but not surprising, sport in many ways mirrors the society that we live in.  I would love to hear what Moeen Ali and Adil Rashid viewpoints, have they suffered similar abuse or have their experiences been different?

[oldjamfan1]

10 hours ago, Kamy100 said:

It is shocking to hear the level of what Azeem has suffered but not surprising, sport in many ways mirrors the society that we live in.  I would love to hear what Moeen Ali and Adil Rashid viewpoints, have they suffered similar abuse or have their experiences been different?

I think it’s really important that they speak up now, one way or another.

[Gav]

12 hours ago, oldjamfan1 said:

Gav I think we need to be careful about bandying Joe Root’s name about in relation to this issue. The lad explicitly said that Root had not made any racist remarks and any speculation that “he must have turned a blind eye” must be tempered with Azeem’s own words “Even a good man like Joe didn’t challenge it”.

A massive ‘not guilty’ as far as the England captain is concerned.

Joe Root issued a statement a few weeks ago saying he'd never heard anything racist, this despite sharing a house with Ballance and being in the dressing room throughout this time, smells of more Yorkshire CCC trying to cover up to me.

Azeem said yesterday he was hurt by those comments from Root, not only was he in the dressing room, he was present at the numerous social occasions where this kind of language was normalised.

In my opinion he doesn't come out of this well at all.

Edited November 17, 2021 by Gav

[oldjamfan1]

3 hours ago, Gav said:

Joe Root issued a statement a few weeks ago saying he'd never heard anything racist, this despite sharing a house with Ballance and being in the dressing room throughout this time, smells of more Yorkshire CCC trying to cover up to me.

Azeem said yesterday he was hurt by those comments from Root, not only was he in the dressing room, he was present at the numerous social occasions where this kind of language was normalised.

In my opinion he doesn't come out of this well at all.

Nobody can just assume that Root heard anything. If he says he didn’t then surely he deserves the benefit of the doubt? 
What Azeem said was along the lines of “that kind of language was so normalised that even a good man like Joe didn’t challenge it”. That doesn’t mean he heard anything. Only Joe Root would know that. 
An earlier poster (I think it was @AllRoverAsia) was prepared to give the same benefit of the doubt to Michael Vaughan, who has been directly  accused by three players of Asian descent of using racist language, so I think we do need to be careful in respect of Root. How often he would even have been in and around YCCC given his England career is questionable in itself. 

As another poster above has said, I would like to hear what the likes of Rashid and Ali have to say.  

[jim mk2]

Adil Rashid has already backed up Rafiq's claims about Vaughan

[oldjamfan1]

12 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

Adil Rashid has already backed up Rafiq's claims about Vaughan

I didn’t realise that. Nothing on Root from him then?

[Gav]

20 minutes ago, oldjamfan1 said:

Nobody can just assume that Root heard anything. If he says he didn’t then surely he deserves the benefit of the doubt? 
What Azeem said was along the lines of “that kind of language was so normalised that even a good man like Joe didn’t challenge it”. That doesn’t mean he heard anything. Only Joe Root would know that. 
An earlier poster (I think it was @AllRoverAsia) was prepared to give the same benefit of the doubt to Michael Vaughan, who has been directly  accused by three players of Asian descent of using racist language, so I think we do need to be careful in respect of Root. How often he would even have been in and around YCCC given his England career is questionable in itself. 

As another poster above has said, I would like to hear what the likes of Rashid and Ali have to say.  

Azeem Rafiq said he was hurt by Joe Roots statement, thats enough for me.

I found [his statement] hurtful, because Rooty was not only Gary's housemate but, before he started playing for England, he was involved in a lot of those socialising nights out where I'd been called a P**i.

In my opinion its naïve to believe Root never heard any of this, he's close mates with both Ballance and Hales and was in the Yorkshire dressing room for years where Moxon, Hoggard, Bresnan and the rest of them were using this language. 

Just my opinion of course. 

Edited November 17, 2021 by Gav

[jim mk2]

3 minutes ago, oldjamfan1 said:

I didn’t realise that. Nothing on Root from him then?

 

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/nov/15/england-spinner-adil-rashid-backs-azeem-rafiq-racism-claims-against-michael-vaughan-cricket

 

[oldjamfan1]

4 minutes ago, Gav said:

Azeem Rafiq said he was hurt by Joe Roots statement:

I found [his statement] hurtful, because Rooty was not only Gary's housemate but, before he started playing for England, he was involved in a lot of those socialising nights out where I'd been called a P**i.

In my opinion its naïve to believe Root never heard any of this, he's close mates with both Ballance and Hales and was in the Yorkshire dressing room for years where Moxon, Hoggard, Bresnan and the rest of them were using this language. 

Just my opinion of course. 

I believe a lot of this sort of language went on at Blackburn Council in the 80s Gav, including by many former colleagues (and friends) of mine. But I can 100% guarantee that I never heard one person use the ‘p’ word (which was much more prevalent back then as well). Sometimes when people know they shouldn’t talk or act in a certain way, they are careful about who they include in that sort of thing. I don’t think it’s all that naive to suggest that players were a bit more circumspect in the company of one of the superstars of the game, which Joe Root has been almost from the beginning of his career. 

Edited November 17, 2021 by oldjamfan1

[jim mk2]

Martyn Moxon is signed off with "stress" apparently but he is director of cricket and presumably in charge of the Yorkshire players so why is he still in post and not resigned?

Rafiq's testimony on Moxon after the death of the player's stillborn son was damning too. 

[Gav]

31 minutes ago, oldjamfan1 said:

I believe a lot of this sort of language went on at Blackburn Council in the 80s Gav, including by many former colleagues (and friends) of mine. But I can 100% guarantee that I never heard one person use the ‘p’ word (which was much more prevalent back then as well). Sometimes when people know they shouldn’t talk or act in a certain way, they are careful about who they include in that sort of thing. I don’t think it’s all that naive to suggest that players were a bit more circumspect in the company of one of the superstars of the game, which Joe Root has been almost from the beginning of his career. 

I hear you ojf, but….

I would refer you back to Azeems statement, which is far more relevant than 2 white middle aged duffers talking about the rights and wrongs of this case. 

[oldjamfan1]

3 hours ago, Gav said:

I hear you ojf, but….

I would refer you back to Azeems statement, which is far more relevant than 2 white middle aged duffers talking about the rights and wrongs of this case. 

True, but he’s not really pointing the finger at Root, he’s more suggesting that he must have been aware of some of the language being used at the time but at the risk of repeating myself only Joe Root himself can answer that.

Azeem didn’t - as far as I know - mention Joe Root at all in any previous statement or evidence (unlike the other names on the list), and was only responding to the statement that Root himself made.

The fact that he describes Root as a “good man” also puts him above the other names who have been directly accused of racism.

 
I’m certainly not suggesting there isn’t an awful problem here and the lad has clearly suffered, but it’s a bit of a leap to drag the current England captain and superstar into this and lump him in with all the players and ex players that have been cited as acting in a racist manner just because he plays very occasionally for Yorkshire and may or may not have heard things. 

 

[oldjamfan1]

What do they say about “let those without sin cast the first stone”?……

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/59338118

[den]

23 minutes ago, oldjamfan1 said:

What do they say about “let those without sin cast the first stone”?……

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/59338118

It makes no difference to what happened to him though.

[oldjamfan1]

3 minutes ago, den said:

It makes no difference to what happened to him though.

Nobody is saying it does, but he’s dragged a few names into the mix that on the face of it seem less guilty of racism than he is. He must have known about these historic Tweets in much the same way as he thinks Joe Root must have heard racist language: it also says something about the climate that existed back then, which it now appears he was a part of. 
Do you not think his credibility has been damaged a bit here?