Cricket

[chaddyrovers]

Woakes out injured for 5th test. Crane will replace him. 

So the team will be

Cook Stoneman Vince Root Malan Bairstow Ali Curran Broad Crane Anderson. 

Bayliss has been talking about bringing through a couple of batsmen from Lions. Liam Livingstone, Joe Clarke, Dan Lawrence. Dan Lawrence looks a talent. 

http://dailym.ai/2Evy0xw

[chaddyrovers]

What did people think of Crane's bowling?

Thought it was very decent from what I watched. 

England need 3 or 4 wickets in the 1st session of play and we can win this test. 

[matt83]

All in all another shambles.

Apparently the last 5 times England have had 2 spinners vs the convicts the scores have been 632, 408, 674, 492 and 570 in the 1st innings. 

 

[matt83]

Also Conceded 400+ in the first innings in 8 of the last 10 away test matches.

On the small plus side so far mason crane has had better debut figures than Warne’s 1/150 from his debut at the scg and if he has a fraction of Warne’s career I will be impressed.

[chaddyrovers]

? Stokes
? Selections
? Senior players
? Steve Smith's form

Where did it all go wrong for England?

Must-watch #Ashes series review as @MichaelVaughan, @Swannyg66, @GeoffreyBoycott and Mike Hussey join @msmith850 ?
https://t.co/wk2xOQNH1C

[chaddyrovers]

21 hours ago, matt83 said:

Also Conceded 400+ in the first innings in 8 of the last 10 away test matches.

On the small plus side so far mason crane has had better debut figures than Warne’s 1/150 from his debut at the scg and if he has a fraction of Warne’s career I will be impressed.

Crane bowled well at times and looks like he will be playing at this level for years.

Matt, we havent had the bowlers for the conditions from day 1. We dont produce enough quick bowlers. 

I expect Vince and Ballance to be dropped from the New Zealand.

With Lawrence and Livingstone coming in the squad. 

I would pick 5 pace bowlers. Those would be Anderson, Broad, Curran, Overton and Garton. 

Rest Woakes and Wood get them fit for the summer.

Crane and Leach should be the 2 spinners. 

[matt83]

4 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Crane bowled well at times and looks like he will be playing at this level for years.

Matt, we havent had the bowlers for the conditions from day 1. We dont produce enough quick bowlers. 

I expect Vince and Ballance to be dropped from the New Zealand.

With Lawrence and Livingstone coming in the squad. 

I would pick 5 pace bowlers. Those would be Anderson, Broad, Curran, Overton and Garton. 

Rest Woakes and Wood get them fit for the summer.

Crane and Leach should be the 2 spinners. 

I think jimmy has shown pace isn't everything as the only bowler to come out with any credit. He has been on his own really he has bowled a lot more than anyone else and gone for about 2.5 an over. Also I’d wager likes of Philander would have taken a load or at least created pressure and made mistakes for others to take advantage of. And that was our problem the Australians only had to see off jimmy then filled their boots with the rest, creating no pressure. 

In truth, we never once looked like taking 20 wickets this series. Don’t have enough bowlers that can make things happen when conditions don’t suit us. And the reality is Englishmen predominantly bowling in England will rarely produce 90mph bowlers as you’re often better served taking pace off and letting the Ball do a bit.

We’ve definitely missed stokes. Broad has been useless and Ali has gone from hero to zero since summer. We’ll stick with our favoured 5 of jimmy, broad, stokes, woakes, Ali do ok in New Zealand and then against India/Pakistan in our conditions and all this will be forgotten about. Next time we travel anywhere decent though it’ll be more of the same....

Edited January 7, 2018 by matt83

[matt83]

As for the batting. We were shit in India last year, we were fairly inconsistent over summer and then this. Short of options and hoping not to return the dark days of new teams every series.

I think Malan did himself some favours here. Vince does the same thing every time he bats. Gets to 20, looks great then can’t resist a waft outside offstump. He must have been caught behind the wicket in 85% of his test innings. Still questions about 2 and 3. Cook has had one good innings and unless he’s milestone orientated might sack it all off. They’ll keep Stoneman I would think there is no one else but the whack on the head weighing on him. Ballance may get another change to bomb. 

Feels like there are more questions than answers at the moment. 

[chaddyrovers]

4 hours ago, matt83 said:

I think jimmy has shown pace isn't everything as the only bowler to come out with any credit. He has been on his own really he has bowled a lot more than anyone else and gone for about 2.5 an over. Also I’d wager likes of Philander would have taken a load or at least created pressure and made mistakes for others to take advantage of. And that was our problem the Australians only had to see off jimmy then filled their boots with the rest, creating no pressure. 

In truth, we never once looked like taking 20 wickets this series. Don’t have enough bowlers that can make things happen when conditions don’t suit us. And the reality is Englishmen predominantly bowling in England will rarely produce 90mph bowlers as you’re often better served taking pace off and letting the Ball do a bit.

We’ve definitely missed stokes. Broad has been useless and Ali has gone from hero to zero since summer. We’ll stick with our favoured 5 of jimmy, broad, stokes, woakes, Ali do ok in New Zealand and then against India/Pakistan in our conditions and all this will be forgotten about. Next time we travel anywhere decent though it’ll be more of the same....

Jimmy Anderson has been outstanding and show how to bowl. But I agree Australia batsmen see him off and attack our less experience bowlers 

Not been impressed by Broad or Woakes and I feel that at least one wont go to New Zealand. I would go for 3 bowlers I mention before in Overton, Curran and Garton. I was happy with the bowling with Overton and Curran and their talent there. Do you agree @matt83?

I agree we are missing Stokes and Ali hasn't look the player we watched last summer. I would be looking to drop him until the summer and challenge him to get his place back in the team 

Most international teams struggle overseas and Ive watched some of the South Africa and India test series and India batsmen reminded me of our batsmen. 

4 hours ago, matt83 said:

As for the batting. We were shit in India last year, we were fairly inconsistent over summer and then this. Short of options and hoping not to return the dark days of new teams every series.

I think Malan did himself some favours here. Vince does the same thing every time he bats. Gets to 20, looks great then can’t resist a waft outside offstump. He must have been caught behind the wicket in 85% of his test innings. Still questions about 2 and 3. Cook has had one good innings and unless he’s milestone orientated might sack it all off. They’ll keep Stoneman I would think there is no one else but the whack on the head weighing on him. Ballance may get another change to bomb. 

Feels like there are more questions than answers at the moment. 

Some of the batting dismissals have been poor but our batting line up hasn't been settled for a number of years apart from Cook, Root and Bairstow being in the team. 

we have to allow Root and Bayliss time now to change the team to what Root wants. I listened Michael Vaughan during the fourth test on BBC TMS and he support Root plans and the players he wants to be in his team and the way he wants his team to play. 

Malan has been a success and deserve credit. some talk of him going to bat 3 for the New Zealand series. 

agree on Vince and its getting very annoyed cos I can see the talent he got. Been disappointed by Stoneman this series. Ballance should be nowhere near the squad and I hope we don't go back to him again. 

I would like to see Hameed come back into the team and opening with Cook. Then I would be looking at players Bayliss named last week. The players were Liam Livingstone, Joe Clarke and Dan Lawrence. what do you think of these 3 batsmen @matt83? good enough

Liam Livingstone's 1st class record for 2017 is 1212 runs scoring 4 hundreds and 5 50's averaging 50.5 www.skysports.com/cricket/player/21948/liam-livingstone

Joe Clarke's 1st class record for is averaging 43 with the bat over his career. scored 920 runs with average of 43.81 scoring 2 centuries and 3 half centuries in 2017 season

Dan Lawrence's 1st class record for is averaging 43 with the bat over his career. scored 761 runs with average of 44.76 scoring 3 centuries and 3 half centuries in 2017 season. 

 

[matt83]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

I was happy with the bowling with Overton and Curran and their talent there. Do you agree @matt83?

From what I’ve seen I’ve neither been impressed nor unimpressed by either of them. Can’t honestly say I’ve felt Curran or Overton have posed much of a threat but that’s not to say they can’t be effective over here or elsewhere.

I think we have a core of players who are all much of a muchness. Finn/Roland-Jones/Wood weren't available or selected. So Ball played first game then got injured, Overton played next two then out and Curran has had the last 2 games. It’s a merry go round of equally average bowlers.

Over the last decade we have capped all sorts of players for a few games who don’t seem to do any better or worse than their predecessor then are never seen again. Currently giving Curran and Overton a go but in recent times we’ve experimented with Roland-jones (is he now done), Jake ball (is he now finished), Wood, and further back onions/Jordan/rankin all had a brief run. So are the current flavours of the week any different to the others, I’m not so sure.

Same with the batsmen mentioned there is a huge step up to test cricket as ballance knows. They’ll no doubt get chucked in for a bit then never seen again. Westley, robson, Jennings, ambrose, duckett, lyth, Compton, carberry. 

[chaddyrovers]

2 hours ago, matt83 said:

From what I’ve seen I’ve neither been impressed nor unimpressed by either of them. Can’t honestly say I’ve felt Curran or Overton have posed much of a threat but that’s not to say they can’t be effective over here or elsewhere.

I think we have a core of players who are all much of a muchness. Finn/Roland-Jones/Wood weren't available or selected. So Ball played first game then got injured, Overton played next two then out and Curran has had the last 2 games. It’s a merry go round of equally average bowlers.

Over the last decade we have capped all sorts of players for a few games who don’t seem to do any better or worse than their predecessor then are never seen again. Currently giving Curran and Overton a go but in recent times we’ve experimented with Roland-jones (is he now done), Jake ball (is he now finished), Wood, and further back onions/Jordan/rankin all had a brief run. So are the current flavours of the week any different to the others, I’m not so sure.

Same with the batsmen mentioned there is a huge step up to test cricket as ballance knows. They’ll no doubt get chucked in for a bit then never seen again. Westley, robson, Jennings, ambrose, duckett, lyth, Compton, carberry. 

Nobody has posed much of a threat include Anderson due to lack of pace in the squad picked or even in County cricket as some county coaches get pace bowlers to stop bowling so fast and focus on line and length and cut the pace down. same thing is happening in Local cricket. 

Finn, Roland-Jones and Wood were all injured before the Ashes series. All 3 need to performed in county cricket to get back into the squad. 

I've seen enough in Curran and Overton to be given games in the test squad and a proper chance in other conditions. 

on the Batsmen you mention all performed very well in County Cricket but struggled in the test side. 

Robson, Compton, Lyth, Carberry, Ambrose and Duckett have done with test cricket IMO. 

Jennings has been working on making corrections to his technique to help his future in Test Cricket. 

I would be tempted to just go with 4 Bowlers in New Zealand if Stokes isn't available.

 

[Baz]

2 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Nobody has posed much of a threat include Anderson due to lack of pace in the squad picked or even in County cricket as some county coaches get pace bowlers to stop bowling so fast and focus on line and length and cut the pace down. same thing is happening in Local cricket. 

Finn, Roland-Jones and Wood were all injured before the Ashes series. All 3 need to performed in county cricket to get back into the squad. 

I've seen enough in Curran and Overton to be given games in the test squad and a proper chance in other conditions. 

on the Batsmen you mention all performed very well in County Cricket but struggled in the test side. 

Robson, Compton, Lyth, Carberry, Ambrose and Duckett have done with test cricket IMO. 

Jennings has been working on making corrections to his technique to help his future in Test Cricket. 

I would be tempted to just go with 4 Bowlers in New Zealand if Stokes isn't available.

 

I think it's too naive to think it's down to lack of pace. Yes it's  a factor, but its far from everything. I'd say it's as much to do with attitude too. I saw Steve Smith get dismissed in the first innings, on a series average of well over a hundred, and he was gutted, really mad with himself. I don't see that from England. I remember England in difficulty being able to give the ball to Flintoff, and no matter where, on what pitch etc he just did everything he could to get that man out, there's no one able to do that. Most of our batsmen look terrified of the same flat wickets the Aussies are struggling to get out on.

Allowing the Aussies to go along at over 5 an over when Jimmy is down one end on less than 3 an over demonstrates all this too.

There's no shame in losing to Australia, but there's shame in not competing.

Regarding selection, IF the selectors think a player is good enough, then they need to be given their head, and backed for a test series. This constant revolving door of batsmen and bowlers isn't fair on them, there' a few in the list above who I think are plenty good enough if backed, but 2 or 3 matches aren' enough to prove anything in my opinion.

[Baz]

Hearing Joe Root hospitalised with dehydration. 

[chaddyrovers]

13 minutes ago, Baz said:

I think it's too naive to think it's down to lack of pace. Yes it's  a factor, but its far from everything. I'd say it's as much to do with attitude too. I saw Steve Smith get dismissed in the first innings, on a series average of well over a hundred, and he was gutted, really mad with himself. I don't see that from England. I remember England in difficulty being able to give the ball to Flintoff, and no matter where, on what pitch etc he just did everything he could to get that man out, there's no one able to do that. Most of our batsmen look terrified of the same flat wickets the Aussies are struggling to get out on.

Allowing the Aussies to go along at over 5 an over when Jimmy is down one end on less than 3 an over demonstrates all this too.

There's no shame in losing to Australia, but there's shame in not competing.

Regarding selection, IF the selectors think a player is good enough, then they need to be given their head, and backed for a test series. This constant revolving door of batsmen and bowlers isn't fair on them, there' a few in the list above who I think are plenty good enough if backed, but 2 or 3 matches aren' enough to prove anything in my opinion.

No player has been given 2 or 3 games unless its injuries apart from Westley..

Flintoff had the pace but the line and length. But not at the start of his international career. 

Pace is needed in Australia. Vaughan, Botham, Willis and Warne all said this before the series started. 

 

[Baz]

13 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

No player has been given 2 or 3 games unless its injuries apart from Westley..

Flintoff had the pace but the line and length. But not at the start of his international career. 

Pace is needed in Australia. Vaughan, Botham, Willis and Warne all said this before the series started. 

 

When we won in 2011 in Australia, our squad included the likes of Bresnan, and our leading wicket takers where Anderson and Swann.

[chaddyrovers]

4 minutes ago, Baz said:

When we won in 2011 in Australia, our squad included the likes of Bresnan, and our leading wicket takers where Anderson and Swann.

True but we had pace and bounce in Tremlett and Finn. 

But Anderson was younger and quicker..wasnt he bowling around 90mph back then?

@Baz and @matt83 can I asked what you squad or starting line up would be for the New Zealand test series?

[Baz]

39 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

True but we had pace and bounce in Tremlett and Finn. 

But Anderson was younger and quicker..wasnt he bowling around 90mph back then?

@Baz and @matt83 can I asked what you squad or starting line up would be for the New Zealand test series?

Yes we had quickies in as well, but the main bowlers where Anderson and Swann, and Tremlett was dropped as he was expensive - despite taking wickets.

Against NZ, I'd say try some new blood. We desperately need a first change bowler who can come in, not leak runs, and pick up wickets. If the selectors think that's Curran, then give him the series. Batsmen, honestly don't know, but give them a few innings to prove themselves. 

NZ are a decent test side, but nothing really to fear as far as I can see, so its a definite opportunity to bring in players now. I'd look at possibly resting Jimmy if / once the series is won, on the basis of giving opportunity to others.

[Gav]

3 hours ago, Baz said:

Hearing Joe Root hospitalised with dehydration. 

Gastroenteritis by all accounts, now batting after Moeens pathetic attempt at holding up an end. 

Joe Playing a real captains innings, but he looks rough, really rough.

 

[matt83]

7 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

True but we had pace and bounce in Tremlett and Finn. 

But Anderson was younger and quicker..wasnt he bowling around 90mph back then?

@Baz and @matt83 can I asked what you squad or starting line up would be for the New Zealand test series?

Since this summer alone we’ve had 7 debutants non of whom have played 10 games and some of whom will never play again. So In spite the shambles of this series I would still be reluctant to chuck more new names in and wholesale changes just yet. I’d just drop Vince who I think has technical issues to work on and would struggle more on green nz pitches.

So pending injuries, illnesses, nightclub brawls I’d go with:

1 Cook 2 Stoneman 3 Hales 4 Root 5 Malan 6 Bairstow 7 Stokes 8 Ali 9 Woakes 10 Broad 11 Jimmy

I always thought we pulled the chain on hales too early but I appreciate he hardly set the world alight last time and will 100% not be selected. 

I would also make it clear to the senior players cook, broad, Ali that they are not undroppable and are on report so to speak. New Zealand is a different kettle of fish and probably won’t learn a great deal over a 2 match series one of which is a pink ball at a tiny test ground. I would also not be writing off the likes of crane etc by any means.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

It's been really depressing waking up every morning to hear the constant stream of bad news. This could be the worst side we've ever sent to Australia. I've no answers but I suspect Cricket is on the way to becoming a minority sport in this country. The Ashes mania the swept the country in 2005 has been squandered on the altar of financial short termism.

I heard Stokes has been selected for the one day team. How does that work ?

Edited January 8, 2018 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[chaddyrovers]

On 08/01/2018 at 06:52, matt83 said:

Since this summer alone we’ve had 7 debutants non of whom have played 10 games and some of whom will never play again. So In spite the shambles of this series I would still be reluctant to chuck more new names in and wholesale changes just yet. I’d just drop Vince who I think has technical issues to work on and would struggle more on green nz pitches.

So pending injuries, illnesses, nightclub brawls I’d go with:

1 Cook 2 Stoneman 3 Hales 4 Root 5 Malan 6 Bairstow 7 Stokes 8 Ali 9 Woakes 10 Broad 11 Jimmy

I always thought we pulled the chain on hales too early but I appreciate he hardly set the world alight last time and will 100% not be selected. 

I would also make it clear to the senior players cook, broad, Ali that they are not undroppable and are on report so to speak. New Zealand is a different kettle of fish and probably won’t learn a great deal over a 2 match series one of which is a pink ball at a tiny test ground. I would also not be writing off the likes of crane etc by any means.

Thanks Matt for the reply. 

I agree on far too many debuts but IMO that's down to lack of batsmen in form. 

I don't know how Ballance got picked again last summer cos he so very poor. 

My squad for New Zealand trip would be

6 batsmen:- Cook, Stoneman, Malan, Root, Livingstone, Hameed

2 keepers:- Bairstow, Foakes

Allrounders:- Stokes

Pace Bowlers:- Anderson, Overton, Garton, Curran and Broad

2 spinners:- Crane, Leach

 

On 08/01/2018 at 09:02, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

It's been really depressing waking up every morning to hear the constant stream of bad news. This could be the worst side we've ever sent to Australia. I've no answers but I suspect Cricket is on the way to becoming a minority sport in this country. The Ashes mania the swept the country in 2005 has been squandered on the altar of financial short termism.

I heard Stokes has been selected for the one day team. How does that work ?

ECB selectors have been told they can pick Stokes in the squad cos they hoping the CPS and Police will either charge him or not. why it is taking so long I don't know. Lets not forget Stokes will defending 2 people who were getting attacked for being Gay by a group of people. 

Edited January 9, 2018 by chaddyrovers

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

Thanks Matt for the reply. 

I agree on far too many debuts but IMO that's down to lack of batsmen in form. 

I don't know how Ballance got picked again last summer cos he so very poor. 

My squad for New Zealand trip would be

6 batsmen:- Cook, Stoneman, Malan, Root, Lawrence, Hameed

2 keepers:- Bairstow, Foakes

Allrounders:- Stokes

Pace Bowlers:- Anderson, Overton, Garton, Curran and Broad

2 spinners:- Crane, Leach

 

ECB selectors have been told they can pick Stokes in the squad cos they hoping the CPS and Police will either charge him or not. why it is taking so long I don't know. Lets not forget Stokes will defending 2 people who were getting attacked for being Gay by a group of people. 

Why couldn't he be out there from the start then ? The ECB is a joke.

[chaddyrovers]

36 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Why couldn't he be out there from the start then ? The ECB is a joke.

The ECB isn't the problem but why is taking the Police and CPS taking so long. either charge him or not. 

[Baz]

1 hour ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Why couldn't he be out there from the start then ? The ECB is a joke.

We should have taken him anyway, theres no way he wouldnt have travelled if he was an Aussie. 

[den]

3 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Thanks Matt for the reply. 

I agree on far too many debuts but IMO that's down to lack of batsmen in form. 

I don't know how Ballance got picked again last summer cos he so very poor. 

My squad for New Zealand trip would be

6 batsmen:- Cook, Stoneman, Malan, Root, Lawrence, Hameed

2 keepers:- Bairstow, Foakes

Allrounders:- Stokes

Pace Bowlers:- Anderson, Overton, Garton, Curran and Broad

2 spinners:- Crane, Leach

 

ECB selectors have been told they can pick Stokes in the squad cos they hoping the CPS and Police will either charge him or not. why it is taking so long I don't know. Lets not forget Stokes will defending 2 people who were getting attacked for being Gay by a group of people. 

Stokes got what he deserved Chaddy. This can’t be defended.

https://youtu.be/RvXDg4IcYiw

Edited January 8, 2018 by den