Cricket

[dave birch]

2 hours ago, gumboots said:

For what it's worth, I do feel sorry for Smith in the sense that it must be hard when, from being a kid, everyone has fawned over you and basically let you get away with whatever you've done. Then suddenly you expect to get away with yet another thing and you get caught out. Suddenly you're(sic) career as captain goes, your adulation dries up and what have you left. It must be hard being a superstar.

Do I feel the punishment is too harsh? Do I heck! He cheated, admitted to cheating, and thought he'd get away with a rap on the knuckles as usual. His arrogance beggars belief. 

As for Warner, just par for the course. 

The one I do feel a twinge of actual sympathy for is Bancroft. He's obviously been singled out as the weak fall guy by Warner and whoever. Younger guy who probably looks up to others and does as asked. No excuses still though. Bans all about right

OK "boots, give me details on the highlighted sections please.

He lives in my local government area, plays (when he can) for my local club.

He certainly hasn't been "fawned over", hasn't "got away with whatever he's done", (presumably in the past).

Finally, based on past history of ball tampering, players have got away with cheating. Atherton and Trescothick (and others) come to mind.

However Smith got to be Australian Captain he did through hard work. I'd suggest you find out what he did, and it was in the realms of Bradman's way of learning.

What he did was wrong, yes he cheated, and yes, he should be punished, but should he be punished more than those who did exactly the same premeditated actions?

I think that what he got as a punishment was correct, the others got off relatively cheaply, but don't put things about that are wrong.

 

ps, I know you were a teacher, but I'll let you off with a typo with you're

[jim mk2]

14 minutes ago, dave birch said:

 

Finally, based on past history of ball tampering, players have got away with cheating. Atherton and Trescothick (and others) come to mind.

 

Irrelevant. Different time, different era. Smith's cheating was more blatant, and pre-meditated. Atheron admitted he had been a "fool" but not a deliberate cheat. Trescothick used saliva from boiled sweet to rub the ball, which I don't see any different to the saliva from chewing gum that most players have in their mouths, so hardly in the class of Smith who used sanctioned the use of sandpaper to rough up the ball.

Smith, Warner and Bancroft's cheating has taken the offence to a new level. They've all got off lightly. 

[matt83]

Yeah I think the big difference with this latest chapter in ball tampering is the top to bottom collusion and premeditated nature of it. Yes Atherton rubbing dirt into the ball in the heat of the moment was a poor show but he didn’t have to go to b&q to make it happen then hold a team meeting to enforce it. 

For years and year unfathomably the Australians have held themselves up as moral bastions of the sport. Despite continually going against the spirit of the game if not until now the rules. They invented not walking and pretty much invented sledging as we know it. Across various eras they had infamous sledgers Rod marsh, merv Hughes, Dennis lillee, Shane warne, waugh bros, McGrath, Ian Healy, the list is endless. Obviously none of those overstepped their definition of the line just the players who gave it back. 

In hindsight with their win at all costs, gamesmanship it wasn’t too much of a stretch to full blown cheating. That said, perhaps naively, I never suspected they cheated in this ashes but I did wonder why jimmy, one of the games finest swing bowlers, couldn’t get the ball to move whereas Starc was making it dance. I put it down to the different ball, home conditions, jimmy on the wane but now I’m questioning every result they’ve had under Lehmann and smith. 

Arguably the best thing to come out of this is the Australians will never live it down, they will never put themselves on a moral pedestal or chip in their two penny’s worth on every issue under the sun that doesn’t suit their agenda. At least I bloody hope they won’t. 

[matt83]

It will be interesting to see how South Africa get on today the Australians might find this game is tougher than they thought playing within the rules.

SA 131/1...

[dave birch]

14 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

Irrelevant. Different time, different era. Smith's cheating was more blatant, and pre-meditated. Atheron admitted he had been a "fool" but not a deliberate cheat. Trescothick used saliva from boiled sweet to rub the ball, which I don't see any different to the saliva from chewing gum that most players have in their mouths, so hardly in the class of Smith who used sanctioned the use of sandpaper to rough up the ball.

Smith, Warner and Bancroft's cheating has taken the offence to a new level. They've all got off lightly. 

 

You obviously haven't read what Trescothick has said on the issue. Basically that different sweets have different "attributes".

It could be said that Smith has been a "fool", and therefore should be penalised less.

6 minutes ago, matt83 said:

Yeah I think the big difference with this latest chapter in ball tampering is the top to bottom collusion and premeditated nature of it. Yes Atherton rubbing dirt into the ball in the heat of the moment was a poor show but he didn’t have to go to b&q to make it happen then hold a team meeting to enforce it. 

For years and year unfathomably the Australians have held themselves up as moral bastions of the sport. Despite continually going against the spirit of the game if not until now the rules. They invented not walking and pretty much invented sledging as we know it. Across various eras they had infamous sledgers Rod marsh, merv Hughes, Dennis lillee, Shane warne, waugh bros, McGrath, Ian Healy, the list is endless. Obviously none of those overstepped their definition of the line just the players who gave it back. 

In hindsight with their win at all costs, gamesmanship it wasn’t too much of a stretch to full blown cheating. That said, perhaps naively, I never suspected they cheated in this ashes but I did wonder why jimmy, one of the games finest swing bowlers, couldn’t get the ball to move whereas Starc was making it dance. I put it down to the different ball, home conditions, jimmy on the wane but now I’m questioning every result they’ve had under Lehmann and smith. 

Arguably the best thing to come out of this is the Australians will never live it down, they will never put themselves on a moral pedestal or chip in their two penny’s worth on every issue under the sun that doesn’t suit their agenda. At least I bloody hope they won’t. 

Atherton didn't do it in "the heat of the moment" though, he put soil in his pockets before going on the field. How is that not premeditated?

Where did this team meeting "to enforce" it come from? Not making things up are you?

 

Don't get me wrong, These guys got what they deserved, but the others that preceded them got off lightly, very lightly.

If you don't believe me google Ball tampering, and see what players have done to the ball and their subsequent penalties.

[Silas]

2 hours ago, dave birch said:

 

It could be said that Smith has been a "fool", and therefore should be penalised less.

 

Don't get me wrong, These guys got what they deserved, 

You're making me dizzy. How about picking a standpoint and sticking to it. 

If you want to try and defend the indefensible,  then grow some balls and crack on. 

Cos at the moment your mealy mouthed fence sitting, and dragging up mainly irrelevant anecdotes from years/decades ago is appearing very weak and contributing nothing to further the debate. 

[chaddyrovers]

Can I ask people what their England team would be 1st test of the summer?

[matt83]

2 hours ago, dave birch said:

 

Where did this team meeting "to enforce" it come from? Not making things up are you?

 

 

In smiths post match press confrence where he said he: “Actions were planned by a core group the payers during the lunch break we thought it would give us an advantage.”

That’s the meeting I’m referring to. But I take your point with the word enforce. They were probably all willing participants. 

Cheating holier than thou convicts and all.

Edited March 30, 2018 by matt83

[jim mk2]

3 hours ago, dave birch said:

 

You obviously haven't read what Trescothick has said on the issue. Basically that different sweets have different "attributes".

It could be said that Smith has been a "fool", and therefore should be penalised less.

 

Smith's cheating,  to plan and take sandpaper on to the field of play with the intent purpose of altering the surface of the ball, is an entirely different level to those two. And Atherton and Trescothick's is nothing compared to the systemic cheating in Asian cricket, which you've failed to mention.

The whole truth has still not come out to my mind. There's no way the Australian bowlers would not have known about this. As a former bowler, I'd have been fuming if my team-makes had been tampering with the ball without my knowledge.  

The Australians have been known for their lack of sportsmanship for decades, which is why there's generally a feeling of schadenfreude around the world at this furore. Basically, the cheats have been found out and the low esteem in which they were held has sunk even lower..  

[Silas]

The spring Aussie sponsored blubathon is really gathering speed now with Warners press conference.  

It shed a lot of light on the situation and I'm impressed with their forthrightness and honesty now they've been found out. 

Who's idea was it? No answer

Was anyone else involved? No answer

Has it happened before? No answer

Repeats "I'm here to take responsibility for my part in what happened on day three of the Capetown Test" about 35 times. 

Then scurries out the room like a rat deserting a sinking ship. 

 

Bravo. Really nailed that PR exercise David. 

You know what would actually be taking "full responsibility" for their actions, is for one of these clowns to stop balling for 5 mins and tell everyone the truth. Novel idea I know, but I'm very progressionilist me. 

 

[matt83]

[den]

A lot of people are saying they’ve never seen so many Aussies crying since Scott and Charlene got married in  neighbours. ?

Edited March 31, 2018 by den

[Gav]

I'm now sick of seeing crying Aussie cheats on my Tv.

Man the uck up, show some bloody backbone.

Jesus wept 

[AllRoverAsia]

It took me a while to build up the will to watch Warner but I was amazed that the 'tough' guy allowed himself to be part of the coverup and Smith rehabilitation programme.

Cringeworthy but at least his kids were not used in the video, just his wife.

How the hell did 'they' make him cry? I can only suggest that it must have been expensive.

He is finished at International level as the fall-guy in this debacle. Once that sinks in he'll do the talk show bare it all book promotion tour.

Not for a single moment do I suggest that other teams do not push the 'line' but the Aussies are the masters and have been for decades.

Lillee obstructing and then kicking Miandad and then blaming Miandad, Chappel and underarm, Ponting refushing to accept umpire and video decision, McGrath v West Indies, constant chirping when Lyon bowls ..... the list goes on and on.

This time blatant ball tampering or cheating in the common tongue, then continuing to lie when caught and then crying for the sympathy vote, Pathetic.

They should just play the game of Cricket, at which they are very very good.

[matt83]

1 hour ago, AllRoverAsia said:

Lillee obstructing and then kicking Miandad and then blaming Miandad

Not forgetting he also came out with a metal bat when England had them on the ropes.

This Australian demise has been 50+ years in the making. I hope people enjoy it for the next 50+ years. 

[jim mk2]

When are the Australian bowlers going to confess that they knew about the cheating plot too ?  There's no way that a captain would make an arbitrary decision to rough up the ball without consulting his bowlers. 

[Husky]

On 31/03/2018 at 08:44, matt83 said:

The shielas will never live this one down.

[den]

Lancs ccc profits doubled. The future looks red.?

 

http://www.lccc.co.uk/cricket/news/2018-news/lancashire-cricket-announce-92-increase-in-operating-profit-to-2-347-000/

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

On 1 April 2018 at 16:05, jim mk2 said:

When are the Australian bowlers going to confess that they knew about the cheating plot too ?  There's no way that a captain would make an arbitrary decision to rough up the ball without consulting his bowlers. 

Exactly. The whole idea of roughing up one side of the ball is to aid the quick bowlers. So you rough the ball up and don't tell them what you're doing ? Or the bowlers don't notice and can't believe their luck when the ball starts swinging all over the place ? Pull the other one.

[matt83]

Well it’s been a pretty awful start to the county championship for Lancs. 

After our efforts in the first game vs Notts we somehow managed to walk away with less point than Yorkshire and Essex who didn’t bowl a ball.

Today chasing 320. But so far this season we’ve scored a total of 375 runs for 30 wickets so chances are slim to none. Could be a long old season...

[Mattyblue]

Like last season it looks as if we are going to be prone to collapses - but at least we had a good start last time.

[den]

10 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

Like last season it looks as if we are going to be prone to collapses - but at least we had a good start last time.

It could well be that the pitches are out and out bowling pitches at this time of year Matty. They’re bound to be holding at least a bit of moisture in April. All the innings in lancs games have been low scoring so far. I’m hoping that’s the case ?

Edited April 23, 2018 by den

[Norbert Rassragr]

Has Jimmy Anderson suddenly admitted he's like Phillip Schofield/Tom Jones, or has he actually dyed his hair that colour?

[matt83]

[matt83]

Probably gone grey watching us batting vs Notts and Essex.