Cricket

[Ewood Ace]

15 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

down to the umpire to make the correct decision there and if they don't make the right decision there then the fielding side can appeal to the 3rd Umpire. Also it complete different situation the Bairstow dismissal 

You are trying to mix in every type of dismissal here

As I said the spirit of cricket is a myth and usually always used by those on the wrong end of something and you perfectly show that here.

You think it is within the spirit of cricket to not walk even when you know that you are out (as an England player did) but you think its not it's not in the spirt of cricket to dismiss someone perfectly legitimately (as the Aussies did)?

 

Edited July 3, 2023 by Ewood Ace

[Silas]

13 minutes ago, Mellor Rover said:

We didn't take the 'unfair' run off in the World Cup that meant we beat New Zealand even though we could have, so we have no place to talk about 'spirit of the game'. It's not a knock around at Salesbury it's Ashes cricket. One man is to blame for the decision and that is Jonny Bairstow. 

By 'unfair' I read 'accidental', because that's what the ball bouncing off the bat was.

Not planned and premeditated like yesterday. 

If we want to go down that road how about we disallow every deflected goal in football. Ball bounces off the back of defenders head = "That's an unfortunate accident, we just chalk that off right?" 🤔

No, you get bad luck in sports sometimes. 

Totally different when judging a players purposeful actions. (I.e. Shane Duffy's two against Cardiff definitely count!! 🤬🤬)

[jim mk2]

19 minutes ago, Mellor Rover said:

 

I'm actually glad to see us developing more of an edge, it's been missing from British sport for far too long, and still missing from football. Look at the Argies, Spanish, French, Germans, Italians in football, the South Africans in rugby, you've got to have some bite about you to win in sport. Play hard but keep it within the rules.

EDIT: I also understand that cricket has always been seen as a separate way to conduct yourself, but even in the village levels, it's anything but friendly now.

Yes, I'm all in favour of a harder edge. As I've posted many times, a ruthless team doesn't give wickets away with poor shots, doesn't give the opposition a sniff by declaring early, doesn't make reckless decisions in the name of "entertainment" or "exciting cricket".

If the Bairstow incident wakes up the England team to what is required - and don't do daft things like wandering out of your crease when you're chasing runs for victory - then we might get somewhere at Headingley

 

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Silas said:

By 'unfair' I read 'accidental', because that's what the ball bouncing off the bat was.

Not planned and premeditated like yesterday. 

If we want to go down that road how about we disallow every deflected goal in football. Ball bounces off the back of defenders head = "That's an unfortunate accident, we just chalk that off right?" 🤔

No, you get bad luck in sports sometimes. 

Totally different when judging a players purposeful actions. (I.e. Shane Duffy's two against Cardiff definitely count!! 🤬🤬)

Can't disagree with any of your points at all, just pointing out going down the 'spirit' route leads to exactly those kinds of silly questions! 

[Ewood Ace]

6 minutes ago, Silas said:

By 'unfair' I read 'accidental', because that's what the ball bouncing off the bat was.

Not planned and premeditated like yesterday. 

If we want to go down that road how about we disallow every deflected goal in football. Ball bounces off the back of defenders head = "That's an unfortunate accident, we just chalk that off right?" 🤔

For those who talk about the spirit of cricket though would it not have been in the spirit for Stokes to block the next ball?

[chaddyrovers]

 

very sad news. True cricketer legend 

[Silas]

4 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

For those who talk about the spirit of cricket though would it not have been in the spirit for Stokes to block the next ball?

Went for 4 didn't it? Or is my memory letting me down.

He's not going to give 4 dot balls back. 🤷‍♂️

That golfer once had his ball picked up by a bird didn't he? And got penalised for it. Should everyone in the field have duffed a shot 1m to make it fair.

Sometimes freak occurrences happen.

I suppose the problem being ours happened in the last few balls of a World Cup final. That happens in an early group match it's probably never mentioned again. Was such a pivotal moment at a crucial time.

But we didn't engineer it. That's the key difference for me.

[Ewood Ace]

1 minute ago, Silas said:

Went for 4 didn't it? Or is my memory letting me down.

He's not going to give 4 dot balls back. 🤷‍♂️

That's not what I'm suggesting I have no problem with the game going on as normal if something like that happens accidentally but for those who believe in the mythical spirit of cricket (which I don't believe exists) I just wonder would the right thing not have been for Stokes to just block out the very next ball?

These are the sort of rabbit holes that you open up when you bring up the mythical spirit of cricket and what people view as within the spirit or not usually depends on who they want to win that particular game.

[oldjamfan1]

21 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

 

very sad news. True cricketer legend 

Ah that's very sad. A world class cricketer, inspirational leader, hard as fucking nails and above all a really really nice man. Fondly remembered at ELCC.

[chaddyrovers]

Former Australia international Brad Hogg has branded Jonny Bairstow's controversial stumping at Lord's a "cheap" move and insisted England were "hard done by".

Brad Hogg says England were ‘hard done by’ after ‘cheap’ Jonny Bairstow wicket (msn.com)

[Ianrally]

On my many trips to Australia I’ve never had a problem with any Aussie, but it seems that Australians over here continually go on about whinging poms. That should be turned round to whinging diggers after yesterdays debacle in the long room. If they thought that welcome was bad, wait for the one they’ll get from the west stand at Headingley. 
The MCC need to grow some as well, grovelling to the Aussies just like the did after the Adelaide test in 1933. Please don’t tell me it doesn’t matter because it was a long time ago, they bring it up all the time in Australia. 
 

[Ewood Ace]

8 minutes ago, Ianrally said:

On my many trips to Australia I’ve never had a problem with any Aussie, but it seems that Australians over here continually go on about whinging poms. That should be turned round to whinging diggers after yesterdays debacle in the long room. If they thought that welcome was bad, wait for the one they’ll get from the west stand at Headingley. 
The MCC need to grow some as well, grovelling to the Aussies just like the did after the Adelaide test in 1933. Please don’t tell me it doesn’t matter because it was a long time ago, they bring it up all the time in Australia. 
 

The scenes in the long room yesterday were truly shocking and it was good to see Guy Lavender deal with it swiftly. And they were the very scenes that English cricket did not need to end this week of all weeks.

Edited July 3, 2023 by Ewood Ace

[chaddyrovers]

The MCC need to grow a pair. Disgraceful action by them and grovelling to the Aussies. 

Aussies got the right treatment from the members. 

Edited July 3, 2023 by chaddyrovers

[wilsdenrover]

All the MCC has done is enforce their membership regulations.

They don’t need to grow a pair and they haven’t acted disgracefully.

 

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Silas said:

Went for 4 didn't it? Or is my memory letting me down.

He's not going to give 4 dot balls back. 🤷‍♂️

That golfer once had his ball picked up by a bird didn't he? And got penalised for it. Should everyone in the field have duffed a shot 1m to make it fair.

Sometimes freak occurrences happen.

I suppose the problem being ours happened in the last few balls of a World Cup final. That happens in an early group match it's probably never mentioned again. Was such a pivotal moment at a crucial time.

But we didn't engineer it. That's the key difference for me.

But the run was calculated incorrectly, the right thing to do, you know, ‘in the spirit of the game’ would’ve been to award New Zealand the World Cup… no?

[Ewood Ace]

26 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

The MCC need to grow a pair. Disgraceful action by them and grovelling to the Aussies. 

Aussies got the right treatment from the members. 

One post you are championing the spirit of cricket and the next you are championing people shouting abuse at players.

[wilsdenrover]

Is this one from our coach any different??

[Silas]

2 minutes ago, wilsdenrover said:

Is this one from our coach any different??

Well it was reversed and Collingwood brought back out if that helps any. 

That's what's so confusing about Aussies using it today as evidence that yesterday's dismissal should not have been withdrawn. 

"Here's a precendent that's the opposite of yesterday's outcome. What do have to say about that you whingeing pomms!"

Err..nothing...it stands for itself. 🤷‍♂️

[Ewood Ace]

1 minute ago, wilsdenrover said:

Is this one from our coach any different??

McCullum has a history of doing things similar to what Carey did yesterday, against Zimbabwe in 2005, against Sri Lanka in 2006 and this one here. Fair play to Vettori here he was a bigger man than I would have been after what Collingwood did to New Zealand a year earlier.

[wilsdenrover]

4 minutes ago, Silas said:

Well it was reversed and Collingwood brought back out if that helps any. 

That's what's so confusing about Aussies using it today as evidence that yesterday's dismissal should not have been withdrawn. 

"Here's a precendent that's the opposite of yesterday's outcome. What do have to say about that you whingeing pomms!"

Err..nothing...it stands for itself. 🤷‍♂️

I didn’t recall it being reversed - thanks for the reminder.

I don’t think the one by NZ against Sri Lanka was reversed though - or was it?*

* I know it was more obvious the ball wasn’t dead - but maybe similar regarding the ‘spirit’ of the game?

 

Edited July 3, 2023 by wilsdenrover

[Ewood Ace]

1 minute ago, Silas said:

Well it was reversed and Collingwood brought back out if that helps any. 

That's what's so confusing about Aussies using it today as evidence that yesterday's dismissal should not have been withdrawn. 

"Here's a precendent that's the opposite of yesterday's outcome. What do have to say about that you whingeing pomms!"

Err..nothing...it stands for itself. 🤷‍♂️

The appeal was withdrawn by Vettori not McCullum, McCullum threw the ball at the stumps and appealed. McCullum has a wrap sheet for doing things similar to what Carey did yesterday.

1 minute ago, wilsdenrover said:

I didn’t recall it being reversed - thanks for the reminder.

I don’t think the one by NZ against Sri Lanka was reversed though - or was it?

No it wasn't and nor was the one against Zimbabwe the year before.

[wilsdenrover]

1 minute ago, Ewood Ace said:

The appeal was withdrawn by Vettori not McCullum, McCullum threw the ball at the stumps and appealed. McCullum has a wrap sheet for doing things similar to what Carey did yesterday.

No it wasn't and nor was the one against Zimbabwe the year before.

I’m all for playing to the letter of the law rather than the spirit of the law.

But whichever view you take,  it needs, in my opinion, to be same one whether the action is done by your team or by the opposition.

[Silas]

2 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

The appeal was withdrawn by Vettori not McCullum, McCullum threw the ball at the stumps and appealed. McCullum has a wrap sheet for doing things similar to what Carey did yesterday.

Am I coming across as a McCullum defense team?

He's nothing to do with any of the points I've made in this thread.

Does seem a bit rich for him to Pearl clutching yesterday if this is his history. 

Tbh tho all I've heard on radio is him saying he won't be buying the Aussies a beer anytime soon. Sounds tongue in cheek to me. Did he say more? I only heard Stokes interview. 

[chaddyrovers]

Brendon McCullum: Australia will live to regret Jonny Bairstow decision

Brendon McCullum: Australia will live to regret Jonny Bairstow decision (msn.com)

1 hour ago, Ewood Ace said:

One post you are championing the spirit of cricket and the next you are championing people shouting abuse at players.

You are mixing the 2 situations up here whilst they are entirely different situations. 

Also the majority of the Lords crowd made their feelings know to the Australia and I think the MCC have been weak and given in the Australia here IMO. You don't

[Ewood Ace]

4 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

You are mixing the 2 situations up here whilst they are entirely different situations. 

No as usual your one eyedness is tying yourself up in knots. You can't talk about the spirit of cricket and then champion MCC members shouting abuse at the opposing team in the Lords long room and perhaps even more so at the end of the week that English cricket has just had.

Edited July 3, 2023 by Ewood Ace