Cricket

[jim mk2]

In no short order it's been described as being  "England's best-ever team", and "given time could prove to be the best side ever"

And this is a team that could be about to lose an Ashes series at home for the first time in 20 plus years

As Michael Gove said, we've had enough of experts

 

Edited July 30, 2023 by jim mk2

[Gav]

17 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Fair enough, must have misread it.

But to be remotely a hall of fame England Test team let’s see them win a home ashes series first, never mind an away one. And of course ‘they’ won’t, as by the next home one there will be no Anderson, Broad, Woakes, Wood, Ali, Bairstow or Stokes for starters. And Baz himself is a quintessential gun for hire and could be anywhere by then.

 

(Oh and I’ve posted on this thread for years, not like those that just come out the woodwork for the Ashes).

It’s still a work in progress, no doubt about that, but the game has been shook to its core, by an English side breaking records and bucking convention. 

(Everyone is welcome on this thread Matty, stick around, India next)

Edited July 30, 2023 by Gav

[Mattyblue]

It isn’t a ‘work in progress’ as this side will be broken up over the next two years, a lot of players are obviously enjoying this environment, but it is at the tail end of their careers - Broad a prime example.

Now the principles of BazBall could well be here to stay and this team could well be seen in the future as the founders of a brave new world. 

But it will be a new captain, pretty much a whole new team (and probably coach) by the next time the Ashes is being here, so this team will never be the best ever.
 

Oh thanks for the invitation. 

Edited July 30, 2023 by Mattyblue

[Gav]

9 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

It isn’t a ‘work in progress’ as this side will be broken up over the next two years, a lot of players are obviously enjoying this environment, but it is at the tail end of their careers - Broad a prime example.

Now the principles of BazBall could well be here to stay and this team could well be seen in the future as the founders of a brave new world. 

You’ve just described a work in progress as far as I’m concerned, but do stick around to see how this plays out. 

[Ewood Ace]

Just now, Gav said:

You’ve just described a work in progress as far as I’m concerned, but do stick around to see how this plays out. 

How can you call a team that have a bowling attacking made up of 41, 37, 36, 34 & 33 year olds work in progress. One of those in Broad is already retiring, Moeen will most likely re-retire, Anderson's time is all but up, Wood at 33 won't have many years left with his injury record and Woakes might have a few years left but can't bowl overseas.

[Mattyblue]

Well I haven’t, have I. This team aren’t a work in progress as they’ll mostly be retired in two years, never mind four. Ergo they’ll never be an all time great side as this was the only Ashes series they could ever win, and they won’t even win that.

Now a different style of play as a legacy of Stokes and McCullum with a new generation of players and coaches is a different matter entirely. But we’ve no idea if they’ll be champion players like Broad, Anderson, Stokes.

(Oh and the attempted patronising sign off wasn’t cute first time).

Edited July 30, 2023 by Mattyblue

[jim mk2]

"Game shaken to its core". The gems keep on coming, and I  was lucky enough to "read it here first".  I wonder if the convicts have been shaken to the core as they contemplate an Ashes series win?

Bazball is likely to be a passing fad and certainly has a short sell-by date. It's very much identified with Stokes and McCullum and there are doubts over the futures of both

Stokes needs an operation on his troublesome knee that has stopped him bowling and will likely keep him out for the next 6 months or so  while McCullum is like any coach or manager - here today and gone tomorrow, and will live or die by results. At the moment he's failing.

 

 

Edited July 30, 2023 by jim mk2

[47er]

I very much admire the spirit and enterprise England have brought to Test Cricket.

However, it needs world class players and we haven't got enough of them

It also needs some common sense as I keep saying.

Don't declare on the first day when you have the enemy on the run.

Pick your best keeper. Doesn't matter how many runs Bairstow gets if he drops 3 or fumbles a run-out.

Root saved his blushes this time, Bairstow didn't even move.

So, much to look forward to but lessons must be learned.

[Gav]

17 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

How can you call a team that have a bowling attacking made up of 41, 37, 36, 34 & 33 year olds work in progress. One of those in Broad is already retiring, Moeen will most likely re-retire, Anderson's time is all but up, Wood at 33 won't have many years left with his injury record and Woakes might have a few years left but can't bowl overseas.

Manchester City are the finished article right now, they need very little tinkering, Pep provides the philosophy, the tactics and style play, the finished article.

English cricket is very much a work in progress, we have Crawley, Brook, Ducket, Pope and Archer, with Stokes, Key and Brendon providing the philosophy, tactics and style of play. Plenty of places up for grabs, a work in progress. 

Edited July 30, 2023 by Gav

[Ewood Ace]

8 minutes ago, Gav said:

Manchester City are the finished article right now, they need very little tinkering, Pep provides the philosophy, the tactics and style play, the finished article.

English cricket is very much a work in progress, we have Crawley, Brook, Ducket, Pope and Archer, with Stokes, Key and Brendon providing the philosophy, tactics and style of play.

You can forget about Archer he hasn't played a test in 2.5 years and probably won't be playing many more going forward. All the other's you have named are batsmen so is it only the batting side of the game that you think is work in progress? Because with the age of the England's bowling attacking it is hard to see any of them progressing greatly.

Edited July 30, 2023 by Ewood Ace

[den]

The term “Bazball” is a bit poisonous when it comes to messageboard discussions. Bazball isn’t a thing, it doesn’t exist. 
 

McCullum and Stokes approach to test cricket is, if I understand it correctly allowing players the freedom to go out and express themselves freely and positively, to take the game to the opposition at all times, with no reproach for failure. They’re all professionals and will have to, Will want to, tailor their game to a winning approach.

So forget the term Bazball and tell me why anybody would oppose that.

 

[Ewood Ace]

7 minutes ago, den said:

So forget the term Bazball and tell me why anybody would oppose that.

Because it absolves players of any responsibility.

Edited July 30, 2023 by Ewood Ace

[Mattyblue]

I don’t oppose it. As the series has gone on they have started to get the balance right after being overly reckless and getting carried away early on .

But it will need a new generation to take it on as they will shortly lose a host of quality players. The bowling looks worryingly weak going forward.

Edited July 30, 2023 by Mattyblue

[47er]

11 minutes ago, Gav said:

Manchester City are the finished article right now, they need very little tinkering, Pep provides the philosophy, the tactics and style play, the finished article.

English cricket is very much a work in progress, we have Crawley, Brook, Ducket, Pope and Archer, with Stokes, Key and Brendon providing the philosophy, tactics and style of play. Plenty of places up for grabs, a work in progress. 

Archer? How long will the Battle of Archer's Elbow last?

You've listed batters there (Root still got a few years left in him at this level I hope), I think most feel quite confident in that area but bowling looks thin, especially outside England.

Saying that, we have loads of West Indians (no such country I know), Pakistanis and Indians etc living here--why doesn't the Test team reflect that? We'd have a better chance then. Take players of colour out of the England football squad and we'd look weak wouldn't we?

[47er]

13 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

You can forget about Archer he hasn't played a test in 2.5 years and probably won't be playing many more going forward. All the other's you have named are batsmen so is it only the batting side of the game that you think is work in progress? Because with the age of the England's bowling attacking it is hard to see any of them progressing greatly.

Sorry EA, just noticed your post. Great minds think alike!

[Mattyblue]

2 minutes ago, 47er said:

Archer? How long will the Battle of Archer's Elbow last?

You've listed batters there (Root still got a few years left in him at this level I hope), I think most feel quite confident in that area but bowling looks thin, especially outside England.

Saying that, we have loads of West Indians (no such country I know), Pakistanis and Indians etc living here--why doesn't the Test team reflect that? We'd have a better chance then. Take players of colour out of the England football squad and we'd look weak wouldn't we?

Unfortunately those of British-Caribbean descent have largely drifted away from the game.

[47er]

6 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Unfortunately those of British-Caribbean descent have largely drifted away from the game.

Sad.

[jim mk2]

Lads of West Indian origin turned to football rather cricket years ago. The likes of Butcher, Small and Malcom broke through years ago but very few have followed in their footsteps. Archer was an outlier and I wouldn't be surprised if he has to retire.

Bazball philosophy has failed its biggest test this summer and boasting about it being a "winning approach" nothing more than hot air when you don't even get the basics right

The Australian media is having alot of fun at the moment at our expense because they've retained the Ashes and look likely to win the series by playing sensible, pragmatic, winning cricket. 

If only it were the other way round

[oldjamfan1]

19 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

Lads of West Indian origin turned to football rather cricket years ago. The likes of Butcher, Small and Malcom broke through years ago but very few have followed in their footsteps. Archer was an outlier and I wouldn't be surprised if he has to retire.

Bazball philosophy has failed its biggest test this summer and boasting about it being a "winning approach" nothing more than hot air when you don't even get the basics right

The Australian media is having alot of fun at the moment at our expense because they've retained the Ashes and look likely to win the series by playing sensible, pragmatic, winning cricket. 

If only it were the other way round

I think Archer was brought up outside the UK was he not? Barbados? So he’s a bit more of an outlier than ever.

[Gav]

Mike Atherton in the press over night talking about Ben Stokes going down as one of Englands best captains, given time.

Praise indeed from a former England captain who knows his onions. 

Rain falling in London right now, but it looks like we may get some play today 🤞

[jim mk2]

The best England captains in my lifetime have been Mike Brearley and Ray Illingworth - the first a brilliant leader and man of  intellect who inspired Botham to greatness, the second a tough-as-nails Yorkshireman who wouldn't give an inch to anyone - least of all Australians. My sort of captain.

Stokes looks like he's going to lose an Ashes series in large part because of his daft decisions. Not fit to lace their boots by comparison 

[Gav]

I'm saying nothing.......OjF 👍

[AllRoverAsia]

Did anyone yawn when Travis Head did?

He got me.

[AllRoverAsia]

9 minutes ago, Gav said:

I'm saying nothing.......OjF 👍

Me too 😀

[RoverDom]

However this finishes, I'm really going to miss this series I think it's been fascinating from start to finish.