[Archived] East Lancs Hospitals

[jim mk2]

'Bloody stupid response'? Why is that?

If we agree standards are dropping since the old days (pre MRSA / premature deaths etc) of Matron's, a Sister in charge of every ward, Staff nurses, SRN's, SEN's and Auxilleries then why tf are there any 'nightmarish' things going on? Moreover why do we need nursing to be a degree qualification? Surely degree level might be required for SRN and above status for a person giving out drugs and using some of the more advanced technology but is degree level really needed to change a dressing, a bed pan, give a bed wash or to help someone eat?

Nursing has been a bloody good and well paid job since the 80's but you'll never hear that from any nurse. I know loads and whilst they might be good or bad at their job give them a platform and they are all professional moaners, brainwashed for years through their peers, vapid politicians and a red top press into believing their lot is a poor lot .

And therein lies another part of the problem. Nurses because they have degrees sees themselves as above washing patients' bottoms, mopping ward floors and cleaning up sick.. That job is now done is now done by nursing "assistants", usually very low paid and often from abroad.. The right-wing press is another problem in that it is continually denigrating the NHS and lowering staff morale when the vast majority of the staff work very hard doing a good job often in difficult circumstances.

[T.J.Newton]

TJN care covers an enormous range of skills and is not just about medical attention but appreciating the patient's needs as a whole. A few minutes chat while helping someone with food, drink or perhaps just making them more comfortable can provide medical staff with important insight and the patient with a real feeling of being cared for.

Some argue the more traditional approach to medical training helped create the more rounded approach as nursing staff in particular learnt on the ward in a real-life situation rather than a classroom.

Quite how you can be sure those you criticise are idle wasters is beyond me. Perhaps it's just another example of the ill-informed conclusions people jump to these days when seeing something which doesn't fit their own, often incorrect, preconceived ideas.

no paul, it comes from spending time in hospital myself in the last 12 months, so i'm just speaking from my own experience and I come from a family full of nurses,

where exactly did I use the words "idle Wasters",

one thing that was very clear with the elderly patients is that there family members only visited sporadically(sometimes days a time without visiting even when they only lived locally) when it suited them and when they did visit they just sat around gossiping and took very little interest in trying to help the ill person or make them comfortable in any way during their visit.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

no paul, it comes from spending time in hospital myself in the last 12 months, so i'm just speaking from my own experience and I come from a family full of nurses,

where exactly did I use the words "idle Wasters",

one thing that was very clear with the elderly patients is that there family members only visited sporadically(sometimes days a time without visiting even when they only lived locally) when it suited them and when they did visit they just sat around gossiping and took very little interest in trying to help the ill person or make them comfortable in any way during their visit.

So thats the problem then? If patients families aren't gonna chip in with doing a job they've already paid someone else do through NI contributions, then they're the ones to blame if their relative receives poor treatment? We may as well start applying that elsewhere then, if people don't chuck a couple of bags of their rubbish into the waste collector then its their own fault if the binmen leave it on their drive. If parents don't help school groundsmen clear rubbish off the playing field then its their own fault if their child falls on a piece of glass. If you don't fix a couple of the ropes onto the AA van when your car breaks down then its your fault if it falls off when its being towed back.

Personally when I see relatives, or sometimes even random visitors, having to do a nurse's job in a hospital I'm very unimpressed. If people wanna help great, if they think they'd be intruding on nurses procedures or have just come to provide the patient with company rather than care then I don't see whats wrong with that. Blaming lack of family involvement for poor quality care is one step away from treating someone according to how much other people care about them, which isn't a million miles away from the attitude taken by the grooming gangs.

[T.J.Newton]

typical brcs icbinf post, manages to link nhs issues with 'grooming gangs', its just one extreme to the other around here and its likely all just bluff(ie. all talk no action) the posters probably aren't even that interested in the issue, they just want to have there precious "opinion" heard(even if it was only formed in seconds after reading a few other posts and maybe a few extremely ott tabloid articles)

[Mike E]

Tbf, apart from the pathetic 'grooming gangs' remark, I agreed fully with SKHT.

[ABBEY]

thank you TJ AKA

SERIUOUSLY IS THERE NOT ONE SUBJECT THAT YOU ARE NOT THE MOST KNOWLEDGEBLE AND EXPERT AT. EVERY SUBJECT YOU ARE TINA TURNER LIKE,SIMPLY THE BEST. YOU WIND PEOPLE UP AND THEN SLAG PEOPLE WHO QUESTION YOU.

YOU ARE LIKE THE ORACLE OFF BENIDORM

My dealing with the NHS have been fantastic, ive had 6 knee ops,3 wrist ops, Ive broken nearly every bone through my my wrestling and they sorted my gout. They have performed umpteen open heart ops on my wife and they miracussly stopped her from dying .The ncu at Burnley are the best . My only worry was when they nearly killedmy step daughter by not giving her the req scan she needed and sent her home and the dr was very rude and uncaring .

[T.J.Newton]

Abbey-learn to stop being a drama queen and shouting then I may actually read your posts someday(until then ill just assume its just another 't.j. newton bashing post' from you, move on princess)

my posts where just regarding my experience at Blackburn royal(no other hospital or even the nhs in general really, as hospitals can vary enormously from one to another,

as an earlier poster mentioned the main issue with the nhs is the money that's being wasted unnecessarily and poor management but id still take the nhs as it is now any day over having no nhs and having to go private(which I personally could never afford, nor the majority of people I know and work with)

one other thing I did notice during my stay in hospital was that there is always one sick old/oldish guy/gal that does their best to make the nurses jobs impossible to do efficiently - ie. things I witnessed, patients refusing to eat(either on there own or hand fed by nurse), patient refusing to let the nurse change his colostomy bag(which he minutes later removed himself and throw across the floor, literaly spilling excrement everywhere) patients refusing to let doctors inject them or take blood, I could go on, but my point is that just because a person is old or sick doesn't mean they stop being an idiot, if anything being ill and on medication brings the worst out in these troublesome individuals and nurses doctors can only do so much and spend so much time on 1 individual patient without it eating into the time they have to spend on every other patient on the ward.

[ABBEY]

Drama queen and you ain't read it. Your amazing you really are .

[T.J.Newton]

Drama queen and you ain't read it. Your amazing you really are .

well ive read this one and ermm well the entire paragraph from your last post that started with my screen name andwritten in block capitals kind of gave away that it wasn't worth reading.

p.s. I've just read the said paragraph to see if there's anything of substance in it, and.... no, just the usual ranting's and if you got your facts right before shouting off you'd find until now I've only made a handful of posts/gems(kidding!) across 2/3 threads in the last 5/6 days(unlike you who averages about 20+ repetitive rants(sorry, posts) a day across many threads(and you even start your own threads that begin with a rant/whinge)

but if it please you I will refrain from posting in this particular thread from now on.

[cn174]

Behave please.

Both of you are allowed an opinion on the NHS and just cos you don't agree with each other doesn't mean you're trying to wind each other up

[Paul]

'Bloody stupid response'? Why is that?

If we agree standards are dropping since the old days (pre MRSA / premature deaths etc) of Matron's, a Sister in charge of every ward, Staff nurses, SRN's, SEN's and Auxilleries then why tf are there any 'nightmarish' things going on?

My experience is from a range of hospital treatment over the last 6-7 years and it has been fantastic. Plus I'm married to an SRN and SRM who no longer works in hospital.

Nursing standards are not dropping but there is a serious issue with reducing numbers through retirement, cost savings and lack of newly qualified staff. This is exasperated by degree qualified staff lacking the practical skills acquired by an SRN. This results in dropping care standards - the two are different and it is the care element people complain about.

Moreover why do we need nursing to be a degree qualification? Surely degree level might be required for SRN and above status for a person giving out drugs and using some of the more advanced technology but is degree level really needed to change a dressing, a bed pan, give a bed wash or to help someone eat?

I think you answered your own question and to a large extent I would agree. Dressings do need, IMO, properly qualified staff. The issue around the bed pan etc. should / could be resolved by care assistants but this is now outsourced. The lowest bid usually wins and you know the saying, pay peanuts....Same issue surrounds outsourced cleaning.

Nursing has been a bloody good and well paid job since the 80's but you'll never hear that from any nurse. I know loads and whilst they might be good or bad at their job give them a platform and they are all professional moaners, brainwashed for years through their peers, vapid politicians and a red top press into believing their lot is a poor lot .

It is well paid, the only time I can recall my wife and her colleagues complain was when % rises were very small.

As regards professional moaners I've been around a vast range of health professionals for nearly 40 years. As front line workers they do complain as they see what really needs to be done but this is far from moaning.

The nightmarish stuff is the behind the scenes cutting of long term projects which could literally save billions over decades but short-term planning means these are constantly threatened or underfunded.

The unpublicised vitamin D issue is a time bomb.

[thenodrog]

The NHS trains nurses, midwives etc and then they go off to the private sector to earn more money.

If the private sector needs nurses and other medical staff there should be legisation for it to train its own and to the same high NHS standards or pay the NHS compensation for the training costs. .

Nowt to do with future employers having to pay and much more to do with the individual concerned paying training costs back.

BUT..... surely in that instance they will be paying more income tax and NHS contribution to the govt for the rest of their working lives? Providing they stay in this country then that is a good investment. If they leave the country before a certain time after training then it would make sense for them to pay some monies back wouldn't it?

[thenodrog]

typical brcs icbinf post, manages to link nhs issues with 'grooming gangs', its just one extreme to the other around here and its likely all just bluff(ie. all talk no action) the posters probably aren't even that interested in the issue, they just want to have there precious "opinion" heard(even if it was only formed in seconds after reading a few other posts and maybe a few extremely ott tabloid articles)

Are you typing whilst looking in a mirror?

[thenodrog]

The unpublicised vitamin D issue is a time bomb.

Well you haven't thrown any light on it yourself have you Paul? I might be barking up the wrong tree but 'is it because they is bleck?'

[old darwen blue]

Just read this on vitamin D issue

http://longevity.about.com/od/researchandmedicine/a/vitamin_d.htm

[Jock]

If the NHS was done away with what would the alternatives be? (every working person paying £100s a month in health insurance, as many large European countries and America do already, NO THANKS!)

sorry, but I don't think nurses should be having to hand feed patients, that's not what they trained and studied for years to do(they're not care workers), maybe the family members of those elderly people should get there lazy self centred butts down to the hospital at food time and do it themselves.

Thats what i had to do for my Grandmother. I also looked in on the lady in the next bed which got my in trouble. You cant toss a scone on a table thats out of reach and then come round 10 minutes later and take it away because they haven't touched it.

They also ticked boxes that she'd had her painkillers when she hasn't. It must be a nuisance when old people still have sharp minds, they cant get away with shoddy treatment then.

What about elderly people who dont have family? aren't they worth keeping alive?

Isnt very basic nursing about caring for their patient i.e- making sure they dont die of malnutritian or dehydration?

[Paul]

Well you haven't thrown any light on it yourself have you Paul? I might be barking up the wrong tree but 'is it because they is bleck?'

OK this is what I've gleaned from our household conversations.

Research is beginning to show the majority of the population north of Birmingham is/could be vitamin D deficient - perhaps as high as 90% of population. Between October and April a fair skinned, blue eyed person (the most efficient colouring for vitamin D production) needs 20-30 minutes exposure to outside sunlight 2-3 times on face and forearms a week. Darker skins of any background need much more. North of Birmingham the sun is only high enough between 11.00 - 15.00 from October to April to be effective. Similar findings are reported from the US.

Vitamin D is only stored for 3-4 weeks. Daily supplements work for those who are not deficient but more expensive treatments are needed to solve a deficiency.

GPs have to fund the cost of treatment and we can see where that leads.

A Google will show a whole range of issues increasingly associated with vitamin D deficiency. The range is wide though - MS, ricketts, heart disease, arthritis, Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, obesity, blood pressure, depression, SAD.

[thenodrog]

OK this is what I've gleaned from our household conversations.

Research is beginning to show the majority of the population north of Birmingham is/could be vitamin D deficient - perhaps as high as 90% of population. Between October and April a fair skinned, blue eyed person (the most efficient colouring for vitamin D production) needs 20-30 minutes exposure to outside sunlight 2-3 times on face and forearms a week. Darker skins of any background need much more. North of Birmingham the sun is only high enough between 11.00 - 15.00 from October to April to be effective. Similar findings are reported from the US.

Oh Joy! Get in!!! As most already know but won't admit Ginger / fair skin / blue eyes etc is a superior gene characteristic over the darker skinned ones. Old Adolph was no fool was he?

[Paul]

LOL.......knew that one was coming!

[gumboots]

There are always signs up at the physio dept aimed specifically at older Asian heritage women who are the most likely to rarely go out and when they do are covered head to foot and usually have long sleeves. Lack of sunlight is one of the main things contributing to osteoporosis. As a child I had very bad eczema and they used to make me have lots of evaporated milk because it's very high in vitamin D.

[thenodrog]

There are always signs up at the physio dept aimed specifically at older Asian heritage women who are the most likely to rarely go out and when they do are covered head to foot and usually have long sleeves. Lack of sunlight is one of the main things contributing to osteoporosis. As a child I had very bad eczema and they used to make me have lots of evaporated milk because it's very high in vitamin D.

I blame Jack Straw! If he hadn't gone off on one about burkha's they wouldn't have felt the need to display their defiance so openly and proverbially cock a snook at him over the burkha issue. They will not be dictated to and what some ancient fantasy character commonly referred to as Allah cannot be questioned or challenged.

No doubt a few asian lawyers will be preparing a case against old JakiJack for constructively denying muslim women their right to free Vit D.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

I blame Jack Straw! If he hadn't gone off on one about burkha's they wouldn't have felt the need to display their defiance so openly and proverbially cock a snook at him over the burkha issue.

Actually I wouldn't be surprised if most of the women agree with him, I certainly didn't see many at any of the subsequent protests. Its the blokes that most insist on burkhas.

[Stuart]

Bloke's parents, no?