[Archived] Rochdale away - 20th July

[JAL]

http://www.rovers.co.uk/news/article/plenty-to-work-on-933835.aspx

Take the postives

Get rid of Dann and bring in a new quality midfield centre pretty easy really for Rovers to progress.

Whats the bleeding delay ?

[CAPT KAYOS]

Did Morris get played at LB again?

If so its beyond me if so - the guy is no defender - he has potential going forward and can put in a decent cross but would appear we are trying to do what they did with Olsson who was never a left back either.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Did Morris get played at LB again?

If so its beyond me if so - the guy is no defender - he has potential going forward and can put in a decent cross but would appear we are trying to do what they did with Olsson who was never a left back either.

He looked like a fish riding a bike yesterday. He got subbed at half time.

[Baz]

Dont read too much in pre-season results, as quite often the sides are in different stages of gaining fitness, loads of subs etc...However, im a little worried that the reports from people attending are that we show no real patterns of play or creativity.

[West Yorks Rover]

http://www.rovers.co.uk/news/article/plenty-to-work-on-933835.aspx

Take the postives

I think we need a good performance and a win at Preston or this MB might start getting a bit gloomy, what do you think ?

[gumboots]

I think I'm off on my hols and won't have time to worry. If I'm not around on here for a while, I haven't given up in disgust however many rubbish players we sign. I've just got little or no Internet access for a few weeks.

[Stuart]

Have fun!

[gumboots]

I shall! 3 weeks relaxation in Brittany then 2 weeks in South Korea culminating in the wedding of my elder son, known on here as ultra blue, then 5 days back in Brittany travelling back on our ruby wedding anniversary in a luxury cabin. What more could one ask?

[roverandout]

lucky bugger

[gumboots]

Worked hard for it but yes, I am very, very lucky.

[Mike E]

I shall! 3 weeks relaxation in Brittany then 2 weeks in South Korea culminating in the wedding of my elder son, known on here as ultra blue, then 5 days back in Brittany travelling back on our ruby wedding anniversary in a luxury cabin. What more could one ask?

You could ask for it to be free?

[JBiz]

Back to the subject..

I enjoyed a trip to Rochdale - 464 bus crew.

I expect big things from nunes and king next season. Think they are both very talented players if a little inconsistent. They are both match winners and can produce a little bit of magic.

Woefully short in central midfield still. Need a solid midfielder who puts himself about (spearing) and a technically gifted player who can pick a pass (UAE player). If we can get those 2 players in then I think we'll be very strong.

Surprising that Rhodes hasn't scored in pre-season yet.

I think we have two in this category - Lowe and Marrow. I don't think they will feature together in a two, but the question is who will fill the creative berth - Dunn, Rochina, Rosado, Formica or Pedersen? etc

Rhodes doesnt need many chances to score, and we didn't create much from open play for him - however I believe that our free kicks and corners will be excellent this season and lead to goals - A real strong point of Judge. His freekick off the post was agonisingly close.

I'm cautiously optimistic. A lot of players looked in good shape. We saw a number of players, some cameos admitiddley, who looked like they wanted to put their mark on the game. Of the starting line up - Kean, Grant, Kane, Judge, Marrow, and Taylor looked solid to me. Lowe and Best struggled at times. Of the subs, Raheem Hanley had some nice tackles, runs, touches and looks decent - he also played left back (a position he could make his own). Kilgallon looked solid other than the goal which was admittedly a team cock up. He looked a decent centreback when Raheem went to the left. King, Nunes and Campbell made instant impacts on the game, whilst Formica and Rosado showed one or two decent touches. Pedersen - bit slow at one end, the floats in a free kick at the other. Rhodes is not quite full strength yet but we don't need to read to much into this in my opinion, because he is proven, so no worries yet. Only one or two players looked off the pace against a hard working Rochdale team who ran out of steam in the 25th minute. Again, Leon Best needs time - and I'm afraid the fans didn't give that to him today.

Which is one of the things I didn't like about yesterday - The fans had fun but one or two made us look like absolute morons. Someone needed to define the words "Friendly" and "pre-season fitness" to an overreactive fan(s?)

To summarise - Rochdale may do well in League two if they can keep up their first half display - good feeling for Rovers next season because we have a large and talented squad. With hunger, direction and some luck we may have a good season.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

That's you and Chaddy then.

[Lytham]

And me, too, I'm cautiously optimistic.

Or at least looking for the positives rather than the easy option of constantly looking for the negatives and posting in that mode on an hourly basis, which seems to account for a few on here.

Bowyer did a good job last season, the signings made this summer follow a sensible logic in the present climate. Venkys have been a nightmare for the last two and a half years, but the last few months have seen the first signs of lessons being learnt. Shebby Singh sidelined thank goodness, Agnew gone, non-contributing players taken off the wage bill.

I'd rather Venkys weren't here, but in the meanwhile just bleating endlessly about the impending end of the world doesn't seem terribly constructive to me.

[roverandout]

gotta love blind optimists, there could could be grey clouds in the sky and they would still say at least its not snowing!!!

[JBiz]

Blind optimism? Blind would be not seeing what is before our very eyes and taking faith - the faith is created by slight changes in the way the show is being run. As Lytham says, No Shebby Singh is worth some optimism - I am optimistic we might not be ridiculed as much this season.

Everybody knows we have fallen a long way - I may have only been a season ticket holder since 1991, but from the stories I have been told we have a long way to go before its anywhere near as bad as it was in the 70s and early 80s - and even then we had 2 promotions (albeit from the third tier)

Constant non-analysis with negative context is so fooking childish and boring. If what I am saying is "Blind optimism" tell me why? What do you know or what can you inform me on to tell me that I am in cloud cuckoo land to expect a better season than last?

I hope your other 4000 odd posts add more discussion to the site

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

What does " non analysis with negative context " mean exactly. I know what I saw with my own eyes on Saturday and take it from me it wasn't pretty, the first half especially.

[Parsonblue]

Having watched the games at Crewe and Rochdale I can't say that I'm surprised by the reactions. Both were fairly indifferent performances and Saturday only improved during the second half after a host of substitutions. With little or no money to play with in the transfer market, Gary is having to go down the road of bringing in honest grafters who will put in a shift. I think Saturday showed why it's important to keep hold of the likes of Pedersen, Campbell and Nunes to come off the bench and add a little bit of quality. Indeed, all three could easily be in starting eleven after watching these two games. Although it is far too early to pass a view on the new signings, a season of mid-table football is what I've felt we are in store for and on the evidence of these two games I haven't witnessed anything to change that view. The rebuilding of the club is going to be a long process and Gary is going to need time. FFP is hardly going to help a club like the Rovers with low gates and low ticket prices which is going to mean limited income and a limited budget for new players. If you add up all the senior players and combine them with the Under-21 and Under-18 squads, the club still has a huge wage bill. Coming back from Rochdale we were discussing if selling Rhodes would enable us to fund two or three players for other areas of the team. Whilst there are pros and cons to both sides of the debate there is no doubt that, as last season proved, a goalscorer on their own, no matter how prolific, is not going to bring success if there are major weaknesses in other areas of the team. The situation we are in at the moment reminds me very much of the late 60s when we had sold the cream of our squad and replaced them with the likes of Bryan Conlon, Alex Russell, Laurie Calloway and one or two others who were solid pros in lower league football but nowhere near the quality of the players we had sold. Fortunately, I still believe that Gary will keep us clear of the relegation zone.

[JBiz]

What does " non analysis with negative context " mean exactly. I know what I saw with my own eyes on Saturday and take it from me it wasn't pretty, the first half especially.

It means what it says. An example of what I would interpret as such; "I know what I saw with my own eyes on Saturday and take it from me it wasn't pretty, the first half especially."

Give reasons for your negative sweeping statements. For example you described the first half as "wasn't pretty" - Why? Did the struggling midfield two outweigh the positives? Where does Judge's excellent set piece taking throughout get mentioned by you TJ?

I would agree that aspects of the game weren't pretty - and I appreciate people who can give examples based on insight rather than just "thats just you and chaddy then"

Its @#/? boring TJ. Not just for me either.

Having watched the games at Crewe and Rochdale I can't say that I'm surprised by the reactions. Both were fairly indifferent performances and Saturday only improved during the second half after a host of substitutions. With little or no money to play with in the transfer market, Gary is having to go down the road of bringing in honest grafters who will put in a shift. I think Saturday showed why it's important to keep hold of the likes of Pedersen, Campbell and Nunes to come off the bench and add a little bit of quality. Indeed, all three could easily be in starting eleven after watching these two games. Although it is far too early to pass a view on the new signings, a season of mid-table football is what I've felt we are in store for and on the evidence of these two games I haven't witnessed anything to change that view. The rebuilding of the club is going to be a long process and Gary is going to need time. FFP is hardly going to help a club like the Rovers with low gates and low ticket prices which is going to mean limited income and a limited budget for new players. If you add up all the senior players and combine them with the Under-21 and Under-18 squads, the club still has a huge wage bill. Coming back from Rochdale we were discussing if selling Rhodes would enable us to fund two or three players for other areas of the team. Whilst there are pros and cons to both sides of the debate there is no doubt that, as last season proved, a goalscorer on their own, no matter how prolific, is not going to bring success if there are major weaknesses in other areas of the team. The situation we are in at the moment reminds me very much of the late 60s when we had sold the cream of our squad and replaced them with the likes of Bryan Conlon, Alex Russell, Laurie Calloway and one or two others who were solid pros in lower league football but nowhere near the quality of the players we had sold. Fortunately, I still believe that Gary will keep us clear of the relegation zone.

That seems the target to me Parson. If we can steady the ship, turn the squad over a bit, get fans and sponsors back on side we may have a chance of getting up down the line. Unfortunately people seem to be forgetting that we have 10+ players who are swallowing up cash quite simply because of idiocy over the past 24 months - with no reason to play for the club. Selling Rhodes wouldn't be worth it because we will not recoup 8m for him.

Paying players off due to dodgy decisions, and unscrupulous global advisors has set us back - and I think we have fallen on our feet to an extent in terms of Gary knowing these lads. Alex Marrow for example - He looked hungry, fit and lively. Couple of awry passes etc - but definitely no worse than Jason Lowe. Alex (regardless of the relationship with Gary) is an example of what you can get for cheap at this level.

The last 30 years has compacted league football in terms of quality. Foreign imports have made the lower divisions stronger in terms of the availability of british players trying to fight their way up the leagues. We can benefit from this. Much akin to Swansea, Norwich, Southampton etc....

[roversfan99]

I personally don't think the balance of the teams that have been used is anywhere near right at the moment.

For me, we have 3 flair players in Nunes, King and Rochina, who are all inconsistent in their own ways, yet give us the dimension of running at players and creating space. Dunny is a bit different in that he links play together, and is important when fit, but performs more consistently.

We were in my opinion ok v Crewe and poor v Rochdale, I think Judge in particular and also Taylor are good additions to the squad, but a midfield of them 2, Lowe and Marrow lacks width, pace and an offensive threat. When we brought on a second team for half an hour v Rochdale, we looked much more of a threat, but it was clear that a midfield as disjointed as that would be a massive liability normally, and it was only because we went for it in a pre season game v lower league opponents that we looked so much of a threat.

I think Rosado and Formica are poor, in that they require an important attacking role, yet lack the ability and pace to really hurt teams. I would like to see us play one of King and Nunes down the left, with one of Judge and Taylor on the right this season. Especially considering the fact that Kane likes to get forward and overlap, that would compensate for Judge (who i would make first choice on that right hand side) float inside slightly, knowing that on the opposite side, we have a quick winger who could stretch teams. Then play either Rochina or Dunn off Rhodes if we want someone to link midfield and the striker, or Campbell/Best alongside Rhodes. Then play Williamson alongside hopefully a new CM such as Spearing or Leadbitter who can glue it all together.

I hope Bowyer doesn't continue to simply stack the team with players who work hard but don't always provide the quality, the teams he has played v Crewe and Rochdale have been a bit one paced, and even if King/Nunes down the wing aren't 100% consistent, we need to become a bit less rigid and predictable.

[Rover_Shaun]

from the stories I have been told we have a long way to go before its anywhere near as bad as it was in

the 70s and early 80s

You have been talking to the wrong people . The 80's were pretty halcyonic in comparison. We had just 4 seaons were we were not in promotion contention. Only 1986 came close to matching the current playing standard and that's with a team that possesses a 25 goal a season striker.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Jbizzie, did you read my initial post. At the risk of going over old ground and especially for you I'll try again. I explained that the full backs don't look like defenders to me. Rochdale obviously thought the same thing because they kept trying to slide balls inside Kane and Morris all the time they were out there. I thought that tactic worked well for Rochdale. They were also beaten too often in the air for my liking.

The two centre halves aren't a partnership, they're too alike in their style of play and neither are truly dominant in the air. I'd like to see a Berg/ Short style combination, one guy first up for headed balls and a quicker player dropping behind picking up any knockdowns that may arise. Maybe Kilgallon will solve this problem, he looked to have a bit of pace about him. Having said that Rochdale completely opened us up twice for their goals. We never opened them up once in the same manner.

I was sat behind the goal Pedersen scored in and from that viewpoint our play was extremely narrow with hardly any moves in wide positions that lead to crosses coming in. I can recall Morris getting in one good cross that Rhodes headed wide and that's about it. In spite of the narrowness of our midfield a team two leagues below us seemed to have very little trouble playing through and around our midfield, we made the little baldy guy in their midfield look like Tugay , he ran the show for them at the back. Lowe and Marrow are just spear carriers, they can run a bit, tackle a bit, head it a bit but they're totally lacking in guile or imagination

Both our two wide players keep getting channelled inside into a congested midfield and seemed loathe to take on the Rochdale full backs most of time. At least they seemed to have some skill on the ball occasionally but when they came inside but it didn't lead anywhere? The subs that came on tried to get out wide with more success.

As for the guys up front, Best was truly awful, his control of the ball is non-existent, he just runs until he gets dispossessed. The Rochdale centre backs were content to let him have the ball because they knew he'd soon mis control the ball and they'd just take it off him, easy peasy. He made that striker we had whose only claim to fame was that he kicked a Norwich player up the arse look like Marco Van Basten. Rhodes never stopped working and looking for openings but was off the pace most of the game, he seemed to be a yard behind the ball all the game.

Some of the subs did better, Peds put a great ball through that somebody squandered. The lad who came on at left back and the other guy out on the left wing looked like they wanted to be there and made good runs. The rest looked deeply average.

Imagine you were a scout for the Rovers team two years ago and you went forward in time to watch Saturdays game. How many of those players would you have recommended ?

Are the above enough reasons for my concern ?

[Blue Cabbage]

I hope the Marrow/Lowe "experiment" was exactly that, or we just didn't/don't have an alternative for either of them, Bowyer surely doesn't want to pair them 2 against Derby.

That said, I'd be in favour of an attacking 3 in front of them with the obvious as no.9

[Brfcrule1]

I thought you might all like to know you can now watch the full 90 minutes of rovers games vs Rochdale & Crewe now available on rovers player.

[Blue Cabbage]

Edit - puerile, should know better