[Archived] Feed the homeless in Ramadan

[K-Hod]

Dear me what an ignorant, uneducated knuckle dragger you are judging by your posts in this thread. No people have been persecuted more in history than Muslims.

You reckon???

Every race/religion has a minority that lets them down, trying to sweep the bad part of Islam under the carpet just because people don't like to hear it doesn't help anyone.

[somersetrover]

You reckon???

Yes otherwise I wouldn't have said it. Why do you not?

[K-Hod]

Yes otherwise I wouldn't have said it. Why do you not?

So, Jews haven't had it worse than Muslims over the years then??

[ABBEY]

So are you so ignorant that you think all Asian's are Muslims could it not be plausible that they are of another region because I don't know if you are aware but their are lots of other religions in Asia.

Also when you say Asian's do you know if they are actually from Asia, perhaps they born and raised in Britain but with immigrants from Asia further back down the family line. The truth here is I have unmasked you because when you say Asian what you are not really referring is not the fact that they are from Asia because you don't know that, you call them Asian for one reason because of the fact that they had brown skin.

Can you tell religion of every person who walks past you

[T.J.Newton]

I judge by what I see...

Last night for example I saw aprox 10 Asians walking up darwen st at 1am swigging a jack bottle and when they couldn't get in the illegal smoking den they tried booting doors in , Half hour later a car full aimed there car at a bloke crossing the road and almost and I mean inches almost him , he waved his fist and they reversed and swore and threatened him . If we hadn't been there I dread to think what they would of done.

All that last night.

However two weeks ago we were having a late night drink in a London hotel and got chatting to an Asian family . Their daughters came in dressed in Saris and went up stairs and came down and had a few drinks with us in their shorts and their pj's.

Like I say I make my own judgements.

To be honest, going of the amount of exaggerating you do on here I think the story above is probably a load of exaggerated baloney,

Keep digging anyway.

[Amo]

So, Jews haven't had it worse than Muslims over the years then??

That's the usual excuse used to justify Zionism, yes.

[somersetrover]

Can you tell religion of every person who walks past you

No but I don't presume to know anyone's religion like you did with "10 Asian's". Why don't you answer the part of my post or are you too embarrassed to?

So, Jews haven't had it worse than Muslims over the years then??

Of course there is no doubt that Jews have been persecuted throughout the years, but I believe that Islam is the most persecuted religion in history and I would say that Judaism is the second most. I am sure that you would place Islam second so there is little point arguing over one place as I am sure we could both write list of crimes against each religion throughout history. The most important point is that since WW2 there have been no crimes against Jews at national or international level. Sadly international crimes against Muslims are happening all over the world influenced by the US, UK and Israeli government, be it through, sanctions, bombing, torture, murder or starvation.

[ABBEY]

I apologise .. No idea if they were Muslims but I'd wager they were.

Embarrassed ? Ha don't do embarrassed .

Any how's as interesting as it is I've work to do.

[adopted scouser]

I don't do religion at all, I find the whole concept almost laughable. I'm with the late Christopher Hitchens on the whole farce.

Looking at all those silly veils shrouding lovely young ladies, like something from the last century and nothing to do with some thousand year old scripture written when humans didn't know any better.

Connolly hits the nail on the head

[K-Hod]

I don't do religion at all, I find the whole concept almost laughable. I'm with the late Christopher Hitchens on the whole farce.

Looking at all those silly veils shrouding lovely young ladies, like something from the last century and nothing to do with some thousand year old scripture written when humans didn't know any better.

Connolly hits the nail on the head

Indeed. Basing your life on what's written in some book just isn't for me.

I appreciate it can act as a good moral guide, but- you don't need religion to differentiate between right and wrong....

[thenodrog]

It's a shame that this thread has come to this. All that was necessary was to either spread the message or ignore the post, but for whatever reason we're now debating intentions.

Traditional scholars of Islam would tell you that zakat can't be spent to build masajid, the money belongs to the poor and it must be given to them. Whether a particular community adheres to that ruling or not is their lookout, but there are types of charity (lillah for masajid, sadaqah for other projects). Except when major construction is required, most masajid tend to fund maintenance of their premises through the collections they hold on Fridays.

Also, to be entirely accurate, zakat is paid on assets that have been held for the entire lunar year, not on annual income.

As for the amount of charity that goes to Muslims, what would you expect? Think of the countries that are suffering the worst calamities right now. I'd guess that Syria, Burma, Somalia, Sudan, Chad and Afghanistan come to mind. Add in Palestine, Jordan, Chechnya, Iraq, Malawi and Bangladesh. These are countries where serious help is needed. There are worthy causes in the UK, but they tend to be less urgent and better funded already.

Then let's examine the 'aid' that some of these countries receive from Western governments. Of the aid given to Pakistan, around half of the annual figure is always military aid which we provide for our own (perceived) security. Another example is the aid from the US to Egypt, which totals $1.5bn. $1.3bn of that is military aid, even though the only people the Egyptian army are aiming their guns at are their own citizens, $400m of that 'aid' will come in the form of 20 new F16s.

I wonder what we spend the aid that Pakistan sends us on?

[Tom]

Off topic and totally silly but I keep thinking of Band Aid when I glance at the title

Feeeeed the hooomeless - let them know its Ramadan!

[T.J.Newton]

Totally agree, I don't do religion at all either, belief systems shouldn't be indoctrinated into people(especially from a very young age) and in this country its the catholic church that are the biggest culprits with the strangle hold they have on the schooling system.

Its totally ignorant to single out islam for ridicule when all the big religions are as bad as each other, though there's nothing wrong with the regular followers of these religions(their just looking for a way to live a peaceful life), the problems lie with the religious leaders and the people that control the money and doctrines.

[Jeru tha Damaja]

I wonder what we spend the aid that Pakistan sends us on?

Ridiculous argument when you take even the most brief glance at the situations of the two countries. I'm sure you have enough common sense to know why Pakistan doesn't send aid to the UK without me breaking it down for you, and even if they did we'd probably just be offended.

The point I was making is that we're helping ourselves more than we're helping them anyway. A lot of what we give them is money that is already committed to buying weapons systems that they don't really need from BAE Systems, which benefits Britain way more than Pakistan. Then we tell them how to use those weapons too. And just to make ourselves feel good about it we call it aid.

Totally agree, I don't do religion at all either, belief systems shouldn't be indoctrinated into people(especially from a very young age) and in this country its the catholic church that are the biggest culprits with the strangle hold they have on the schooling system.

Its totally ignorant to single out islam for ridicule when all the big religions are as bad as each other, though there's nothing wrong with the regular followers of these religions(their just looking for a way to live a peaceful life), the problems lie with the religious leaders and the people that control the money and doctrines.

Better not let the kids turn on the TV, radio or internet then, if they don't find a religion they'll probably end up with the materialist values that popular culture pushes on everyone every second of the day. In fact, that one is more dangerous because you could always come to question what you're told directly, but when ideas are pushed on you more subtly they are harder to reject later.

[T.J.Newton]

Ridiculous argument when you take even the most brief glance at the situations of the two countries. I'm sure you have enough common sense to know why Pakistan doesn't send aid to the UK without me breaking it down for you, and even if they did we'd probably just be offended.

The point I was making is that we're helping ourselves more than we're helping them anyway. A lot of what we give them is money that is already committed to buying weapons systems that they don't really need from BAE Systems, which benefits Britain way more than Pakistan. Then we tell them how to use those weapons too. And just to make ourselves feel good about it we call it aid.

Better not let the kids turn on the TV, radio or internet then, if they don't find a religion they'll probably end up with the materialist values that popular culture pushes on everyone every second of the day. In fact, that one is more dangerous because you could always come to question what you're told directly, but when ideas are pushed on you more subtly they are harder to reject later.

No shizer!

but still, its not the same,

we have complete control over devices and can simply switch them off with no repercussions,

also its a parents responsibility to make sure their kids are not watching/viewing to much junk.

[Boner]

Just to clarify a few points:

Holy books are terrible things to base morality on, this should be obvious to anyone who's ever read one.

You're not a scholar if you've only read one book.

If it's compulsory to give money it's not charity, it's a tax. This doesn't count as a good deed.

[incy wincy little spider]

Sounds like a great jesture. Living abroad has really opened my eyes up to different customs and religions. I love eating in different resturants and experiencing different cultures. Makes me sad when I read through this topic . Money/time going from those who have lots to those who have little is always a good thing in society.

Also church tax in Germany. Must have paid over €1000 in the few years that I've been here. Technically not even my church, but I hope that it will be used well.

[thenodrog]

Ridiculous argument when you take even the most brief glance at the situations of the two countries. I'm sure you have enough common sense to know why Pakistan doesn't send aid to the UK without me breaking it down for you, and even if they did we'd probably just be offended.

The point I was making is that we're helping ourselves more than we're helping them anyway. A lot of what we give them is money that is already committed to buying weapons systems that they don't really need from BAE Systems, which benefits Britain way more than Pakistan. Then we tell them how to use those weapons too. And just to make ourselves feel good about it we call it aid.

Obviously Jeru you've completely missed the fact that because of our stupid generosity 99.5% of Pakistanis do not pay any income tax whatsoever! http://www.guardian.co.uk/global-development/2013/apr/04/pakistan-recoup-taxes-aid-mps

According to that Gruniad report no Pakistani has been prosecuted for tax fraud for over 25 years! That fact is unbelievable. I wonder if old Jimmk2 would like to comment on the statement that tax evasion is a national pastime amongst the Pakistani people?

Small wonder that 'cash is king' in Blackburn and that almost 50 Western Union agencies can be found in BB1 alone! Paying ones way through life and not depending on charity is most definitely not a popular concept amongst the peoples of the nation.

How many lame duck nations must we carry before the pin well and truly comes out?

[jim mk2]

Apparently only 1% of Pakistanis pay tax. Why haven't you moved there - it must be your idea of heaven ?

[Jeru tha Damaja]

Paying your way is a concept held in ever declining regard by the British public, too. Although it's hard to make the argument for it when young people are essentially being told that we have to pay for the generation that keeps lecturing us about personal responsibility as they find that they can't pay for themselves in retirement.

Then there's the growing list of European countries where nobody pays tax. Or maybe we could discuss the way that some of the largest countries in Britain have loopholes written into our tax laws to give them ways out of paying their dues.

However, turning to the example of Pakistan, it has been a political mess for a long time (and Britain has had its role), so that really needs to sort itself out before we can expect efficient taxation. Perhaps if the aid money we sent over there was used to build an effective education system and a bit of viable infrastructure then the nation would progress to a point where it doesn't need our money to function.

Alas, we insist on allowing the India-obsessed military to buy goodies from BAE, Raytheon and Lockheed Martin, making the whole exercise completely fruitless for the Pakistani public.

Once again, when you consider that the real goal of aid is usually to create a market for British products or to promote our influence over foreign governments, you may conclude that we're actually helping ourselves more than anyone.

[thenodrog]

However, turning to the example of Pakistan, it has been a political mess for a long time (and Britain has had its role), so that really needs to sort itself out before we can expect efficient taxation. Perhaps if the aid money we sent over there was used to build an effective education system and a bit of viable infrastructure then the nation would progress to a point where it doesn't need our money to function.

Well done. You have take naivety to a whole new level Jeru. Ask a wealthy and powerful Pakistani whether they should spend aid money on saving taxation for the ruling elite or educating the social underclasses and what answer do you think you will receive? Have you ever seen a tapeworm leave it's host of it's own volition?

You must have forgotten that they'd rather shoot schoolchildren in the head than educate them! Or at least educate them beyong than some ludicrously outdated and irrelevent passages in the Q'uran. Tell you what. Stop the aid completely and the Pakistan govt will either start levying income tax pdq ...... or more likely they'll transfer themselves to a Russian or Chinese nipple.

[thenodrog]

Paying your way is a concept held in ever declining regard by the British public, too. Although it's hard to make the argument for it when young people are essentially being told that we have to pay for the generation that keeps lecturing us about personal responsibility as they find that they can't pay for themselves in retirement.

Correct. The generation you are referring to is struggling to save for retirement cos they are unfortunately paying for the retirement of the previous generation..... and/or being bled by the next generation who go to 'uni' to complete some obscure and useless degree before p1ssing off around the globe for a year or two before returning to the original nest and leeching of their parents again.

Before you reply .... Yes I do know and accept that it is our generations own fault. Us baby boomers have screwed up big time through being way way too limp wristed and weak and following liberal doctrine. We have helped only those older who fought their way through the wars, we have not helped ourselves by doing so and neither have we helped the next generation who are going to hell in a handcart as far as I can see. Good luck.

[Jeru tha Damaja]

Well done. You have take naivety to a whole new level Jeru. Ask a wealthy and powerful Pakistani whether they should spend aid money on saving taxation for the ruling elite or educating the social underclasses and what answer do you think you will receive? Have you ever seen a tapeworm leave it's host of it's own volition?

You must have forgotten that they'd rather shoot schoolchildren in the head than educate them! Or at least educate them beyong than some ludicrously outdated and irrelevent passages in the Q'uran. Tell you what. Stop the aid completely and the Pakistan govt will either start levying income tax pdq ...... or more likely they'll transfer themselves to a Russian or Chinese nipple.

The Pakistani elite doesn't get the choice of what to spend the money on because they never actually take possession of the cash. They get a delivery of fighter jets and missiles every now and then, but very little cash. Meanwhile, a large portion of Nawaz Sharif's recent election campaign was built around his proposal to build infrastructure and improve relations with India. Imran Khan, the next favoured candidate, ran on scaling back military operations and spending on education.

Yes, the Taliban in Pakistan want to stop girls from attending school (although they don't advocate closing down schools completely) and there has been violence. However, US drones have also destroyed quite a few schools in the country since both sides use them as cover for other things. You could also point out that there's a fair chance of being shot in an American school too, but nobody seems to be worrying about why they spend so much more on weapons of death than they do on education.

Considering the state of the Pakistani economy, income tax wouldn't change a whole lot with average income standing at $255 a month.

[thenodrog]

Considering the state of the Pakistani economy, income tax wouldn't change a whole lot with average income standing at $255 a month.

Surely it's all relative as income tax is usually %age based.

However don't you see a link in the above sentence? Maybe if the govt had a few bob more (and barring any corruption which I'm sure is endemic over there) then it could invest in industry, commerce and services and give a kick start to increased employment and wealth?

[Jeru tha Damaja]

What percentage of $255 would they have to levy in taxes to raise enough cash to make meaningful investments?

Without outside investment there will be no great progress in the Pakistani economy and without significant upgrades to the infrastructure and some measure of stability there will be no outside investment.