[Archived] Have we got our Rovers back?

[Parsonblue]

Sadly Parson that isn't Bowyers fault entirely. He didn't bring that dross in, and now that it's here and he can't shift it, he has to utilise it in some form. Bloody Olsson shouldnt be playing football, Givet's head is elsewhere, King is useless imo, and Dunn is just about finished. And through all that, we probably should have won the game if that prune hadn't decided to dolly a penalty along the floor. Bowyer is doing what he can in a sh*t situation - I certainly did not class that as a weak side and I expected them to beat Carlisle. The fact that they didn't is a damming vindication of the decimation that has taken place in the last three years.

A win tomorrow and all will be forgotten, you know that as well as I do

I'm in no way blaming Gary, Jimmy. The point I was making is that he used his squad in the same way that Kean did. When Kean did it everyone was up in arms because we were knocked out of the cup. Now, suddenly, being knocked out of the cup is unimportant. It's the double standards I find objectionable. I still maintain that losing matches is never a good thing. In 50 odd years of watching the Rovers I don't think I've come away from a game that we have lost and thought "oh well, that doesn't matter." Surely every game matters as success breeds convinces which in turn breeds more success. When Sam put out weaker teams because he wanted to save players for 'winnable' games there was uproar. Gary tried to save the legs of players for Saturday so what's the difference? For a club in financial difficulties the League Cup offers a way of progressing and getting additional income - look at what it did for Bradford City last season. Indeed, the Cup run actually sparked their run for the play-offs and eventual promotion.

As I say, Gary gambled on the squad players being good enough to see us through and on the day they weren't but, ultimately, these are the same players we will be relying upon during the course of the season to provide us with mid-table security. Being knocked out of the Cup means many of those players will now have very little opportunity for senior action and that is not a good thing. But, as you say, onwards and upwards - hopefully.

[Jimmy612]

I'm in no way blaming Gary, Jimmy. The point I was making is that he used his squad in the same way that Kean did. When Kean did it everyone was up in arms because we were knocked out of the cup. Now, suddenly, being knocked out of the cup is unimportant. It's the double standards I find objectionable. I still maintain that losing matches is never a good thing. In 50 odd years of watching the Rovers I don't think I've come away from a game that we have lost and thought "oh well, that doesn't matter." Surely every game matters as success breeds convinces which in turn breeds more success. When Sam put out weaker teams because he wanted to save players for 'winnable' games there was uproar. Gary tried to save the legs of players for Saturday so what's the difference? For a club in financial difficulties the League Cup offers a way of progressing and getting additional income - look at what it did for Bradford City last season. Indeed, the Cup run actually sparked their run for the play-offs and eventual promotion.

As I say, Gary gambled on the squad players being good enough to see us through and on the day they weren't but, ultimately, these are the same players we will be relying upon during the course of the season to provide us with mid-table security. Being knocked out of the Cup means many of those players will now have very little opportunity for senior action and that is not a good thing. But, as you say, onwards and upwards - hopefully.

Little bit different, certainly on the Cardiff front. If we'd won that game we would have been playing... CPFC? for a shot at getting to the final of the league cup. Is that accurate? Post-match Kean came out and used the term 'forfeited.' Which of course had us all furious, particularly after the completely inept performance against Bolton for which we had sacrificed a good chance of getting to Wembley.

The MK Dons match? was that last year? I'm not sure how people reacted to it. I think rather than an anger that he had not played full strength, it was more just a rsignation of ''we're sh*t'', despite our incredibly fortunate start to the season. I would also point out that the fans were justifiably angry at that time - very different to now where I personally feel the club is at its most stable for 3 years (yes that's not saying much i know).

GB didn't want to be knocked out, he selected a side that should have beaten Carlisle, and let's face it, really should have done. Yes, I agree with you that the peripheral players could have done with staying in the cup for minutesw on the pitch, but wouldnt that mean playing a weakened side every round? Thus playing the players that GB picked?

In reflection, I just think getting beaten was one of those things. GB picked a squad he (and I) thought would be good enough to beat Carlisle. Unfortunately it hasn't paid off and we pick ourselves up and dust ourselves down. Arsenal got knocked out by Bradford last year, so too did Villa. Cup football is unpredictable. It can be great fun and theres nothing better than a feeling that Wembley is in your sights, but balls to it. Let's just hope it pays off tomorrow. If you'd asked me on wednesday which game would I have rather won, I know which one i'd be picking.

[Al]

Playing a weakened team is never acceptable. Rest a player or two yes but not practically the whole first 11. Fans were charged £19 each to watch this game plus the expenses of getting there so the least they should expect is the first team. Dross like King, Morris and Eastwood should be nowhere near the team. It's just not worth travelling away in a cup match to watch the reserves. If young fit players cannot recover from Wednesday to Saturday there is something wrong with their fitness.

[Mike E]

Was that whilst he was busting every blood vessel in his body to win the European Cup.........TWICE ???

Oh, I didn't realise the European Cup was a domestic competition

Re: the Kean thing. It's been said already. Gary Bowyer (and us fans) most likely expected a win from the squad that was put out on Weds night. We reached a draw and lost on penalties (were Chelsea equally fuming when we beat them a couple years ago?), which is an unlucky result. Kean, on the other hand, feilded a bunch or youth and ressies and openly admitted to forfeiting the tie!

Re: Carlisle: @#/? happens in cup competitions. They are a series of one-off games. Simple as that. We cudda/wudda/shudda won but didn't. Nevermind, can't be helped now, concentrate on the league until the FA Cup comes round.

[Parsonblue]

Oh, I didn't realise the European Cup was a domestic competition

Re: the Kean thing. It's been said already. Gary Bowyer (and us fans) most likely expected a win from the squad that was put out on Weds night. We reached a draw and lost on penalties (were Chelsea equally fuming when we beat them a couple years ago?), which is an unlucky result. Kean, on the other hand, feilded a bunch or youth and ressies and openly admitted to forfeiting the tie!

Re: Carlisle: kean happens in cup competitions. They are a series of one-off games. Simple as that. We cudda/wudda/shudda won but didn't. Nevermind, can't be helped now, concentrate on the league until the FA Cup comes round.

Not at MK Dons he didn't. He fielded a team made of players who were members of the first team squad just as Gary did on Wednesday. I'm sure Kean expected to win at MK Dons and, indeed, on paper the team should have done. Having been at both games I don't see the difference but somehow we seem to be asked the view them differently. Both managers put out teams that they thought would win and both were wrong.

[Jimmy612]

Playing a weakened team is never acceptable. Rest a player or two yes but not practically the whole first 11. Fans were charged £19 each to watch this game plus the expenses of getting there so the least they should expect is the first team. Dross like King, Morris and Eastwood should be nowhere near the team. It's just not worth travelling away in a cup match to watch the reserves. If young fit players cannot recover from Wednesday to Saturday there is something wrong with their fitness.

Why's that then? Isn't it the home team that decides on ticket prices (correct me if i'm wrong)... Also, it's a first round Capital Cup tie? Anyone going with an impression that we would play a full 11 must have been nuts. I could see from a mile off we wouldn't do that. Imo a very strange choice of game to attend if you were hoping to see our first 11.

As much as I hate to say it, King is in our 18 man squad that we would expect to see week in week out and Morris is currently our secon choice left back whilst Kilgallon is injured, and played a number of games at the end of last season. Hardly reserves with no hope of playing are they. Re: Eastwood, he too is our 2nd choice keeper so why should he not be given 90minutes? I don't think there were any 'reserves' in that squad. Just crap players that unfortunately could all play a big part in the season, due to our shocking squad.

[Tom]

My issue and its only a small one is you either go out to win the game with the best team available or you put no importance on the game and protect your players, what we did was neither.

I said at the time and still think that if we went down the line of not worrying about it then the likes of Taylor and Cairney should have been brought off after 90 minutes at most, as it happens the reason Cairney is out now can't have been predicted but an injury to a vital player was

I actually wanted Rhodes and Best to start just because those two striking up a partnership could be vital, in his time with us we haven't seen Rhodes have a partnership at all and survive as a lone wolf up front but to push on this season that will be needed

[Al]

Why's that then? Isn't it the home team that decides on ticket prices (correct me if i'm wrong)... Also, it's a first round Capital Cup tie? Anyone going with an impression that we would play a full 11 must have been nuts. I could see from a mile off we wouldn't do that. Imo a very strange choice of game to attend if you were hoping to see our first 11.

As much as I hate to say it, King is in our 18 man squad that we would expect to see week in week out and Morris is currently our secon choice left back whilst Kilgallon is injured, and played a number of games at the end of last season. Hardly reserves with no hope of playing are they. Re: Eastwood, he too is our 2nd choice keeper so why should he not be given 90minutes? I don't think there were any 'reserves' in that squad. Just crap players that unfortunately could all play a big part in the season, due to our shocking squad.

B/S from start to finish. Teams have to agree prices between them for a start. There were 8 changes from the previous game. It was a reserve team and if the manager has still not twigged that King and Morris are not fit to be in the squad then it's time he did. As I said by all means rest a couple of players but this was equivalent to advertising Elvis and substituting PJ Proby.

[Sparky Marky]

My issue and its only a small one is you either go out to win the game with the best team available or you put no importance on the game and protect your players, what we did was neither.

I said at the time and still think that if we went down the line of not worrying about it then the likes of Taylor and Cairney should have been brought off after 90 minutes at most, as it happens the reason Cairney is out now can't have been predicted but an injury to a vital player was

I actually wanted Rhodes and Best to start just because those two striking up a partnership could be vital, in his time with us we haven't seen Rhodes have a partnership at all and survive as a lone wolf up front but to push on this season that will be needed

Sounds like criticism of the manager and his management experience. imagine if we go 5 without a win on saturday..........

[Tom]

Sounds like criticism of the manager and his management experience. imagine if we go 5 without a win on saturday..........

Maybe, I'm fully behind the manager and hope he is just what we need but he isn't immune to criticism nor should he be or I imagine want to be

[Jimmy612]

B/S from start to finish. Teams have to agree prices between them for a start. There were 8 changes from the previous game. It was a reserve team and if the manager has still not twigged that King and Morris are not fit to be in the squad then it's time he did. As I said by all means rest a couple of players but this was equivalent to advertising Elvis and substituting PJ Proby.

As I mentioned, I actually didn't know what the system was there. Fair enough £19 - does anyone find that an excessive price for a good game of football?

8 changes from the previous game - one was a new signing, one was Dunn (surely not a reserve), one was Givet (our next choice defender, who if there were injuries to either of Dannley would walk in the team), one was Cairney, a new loan player who is considered first team. One was our second choice keeper (whats wrong with playing him?), Bullshit that Morris started games at the back end of last season was it, perhaps you should check that info? Taylor, our new signing and MoM on the evening. I'll give you Olsson as I don't rate him at all. Both Judge and Rhodes were brought on, nailed on starters. And Lowe is a first teamer. Marrow is first team, so too is Kane.

That is not a reserve team. Infact lets see how many are in the squad tomorrow shall we? discounting Cairney who is suspended. I would count Givet, Eastwood, King, Taylor, Morris, Judge (S), Rhodes(S), Lowe(S), Marrow, Kane, Dunn -I count 11 there who i fully expect to be in the 18 tomorrow. How the Kean is that a reserve team?

As I say - first round of the capital cup - if fans want to make the trip good on them, but don't expect to see our full strength side. In fact it might have been an idea to have done a poll on the day to gather people perceptions of which side would play.

Oh and with regard to advertising Elvis etc etc - I think the only thing they advertised was Carlisle vs BRFC, Capital Cup first round - past that you make your own judgement on whether you want to go - fully understanding the cost implications. But, as the old saying goes, fools and their money....

Just as reference here is the squad vs Derby.. Jake Kean, Todd Kane, Scott Dann, Grant Hanley, Tommy Spurr, Josh King, Jason Lowe, Alex Marrow, Alan Judge, Ruben Rochina, Jordan Rhodes. Subs: Simon Eastwood, Gael Givet, Markus Olsson, Tom Cairney, Chris Taylor, David Dunn, Leon Best.

So nine of your starting reserve side were in the squad for our opening league fixture - Songo'o was not signed by then - and Morris travelled but didn't make the first 18 - the three subs from wenesday all started the derby game.

[Al]

As I mentioned, I actually didn't know what the system was there. Fair enough £19 - does anyone find that an excessive price for a good game of football?

8 changes from the previous game - one was a new signing, one was Dunn (surely not a reserve), one was Givet (our next choice defender, who if there were injuries to either of Dannley would walk in the team), one was Cairney, a new loan player who is considered first team. One was our second choice keeper (whats wrong with playing him?), Bullshit that Morris started games at the back end of last season was it, perhaps you should check that info? Taylor, our new signing and MoM on the evening. I'll give you Olsson as I don't rate him at all. Both Judge and Rhodes were brought on, nailed on starters. And Lowe is a first teamer. Marrow is first team, so too is Kane.

That is not a reserve team. Infact lets see how many are in the squad tomorrow shall we? discounting Cairney who is suspended. I would count Givet, Eastwood, King, Taylor, Morris, Judge (S), Rhodes(S), Lowe(S), Marrow, Kane, Dunn -I count 11 there who i fully expect to be in the 18 tomorrow. How the Kean is that a reserve team?

As I say - first round of the capital cup - if fans want to make the trip good on them, but don't expect to see our full strength side. In fact it might have been an idea to have done a poll on the day to gather people perceptions of which side would play.

Oh and with regard to advertising Elvis etc etc - I think the only thing they advertised was Carlisle vs BRFC, Capital Cup first round - past that you make your own judgement on whether you want to go - fully understanding the cost implications. But, as the old saying goes, fools and their money....

Just as reference here is the squad vs Derby.. Jake Kean, Todd Kane, Scott Dann, Grant Hanley, Tommy Spurr, Josh King, Jason Lowe, Alex Marrow, Alan Judge, Ruben Rochina, Jordan Rhodes. Subs: Simon Eastwood, Gael Givet, Markus Olsson, Tom Cairney, Chris Taylor, David Dunn, Leon Best.

So nine of your starting reserve side were in the squad for our opening league fixture - Songo'o was not signed by then - and Morris travelled but didn't make the first 18 - the three subs from wenesday all started the derby game.

If it is 8 changes from what the manager considered his first team then how the hell is it not a reserve team? In the 18 man squad is not in the first team.

[Jimmy612]

If it is 8 changes from what the manager considered his first team then how the hell is it not a reserve team? In the 18 man squad is not in the first team.

So you consider only 11 players to be 'first team' out of the whole of the squad, and anyone else is a reserve? Looks like we're going to have to get used to seeing a lot of reserves this season then...

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

My issue and its only a small one is you either go out to win the game with the best team available or you put no importance on the game and protect your players, what we did was neither.

I said at the time and still think that if we went down the line of not worrying about it then the likes of Taylor and Cairney should have been brought off after 90 minutes at most, as it happens the reason Cairney is out now can't have been predicted but an injury to a vital player was

I actually wanted Rhodes and Best to start just because those two striking up a partnership could be vital, in his time with us we haven't seen Rhodes have a partnership at all and survive as a lone wolf up front but to push on this season that will be needed

I'd love to be proved wrong Tom but I can't see Best and Rhodes forming a partnership.

[OJRovers]

Not at MK Dons he didn't. He fielded a team made of players who were members of the first team squad just as Gary did on Wednesday. I'm sure Kean expected to win at MK Dons and, indeed, on paper the team should have done. Having been at both games I don't see the difference but somehow we seem to be asked the view them differently. Both managers put out teams that they thought would win and both were wrong.

Mean picking Edihno to play upfront on his own was criminal. One of the worst, if not the worst player ever to play for Rovers. Him and Jorge weren't picked because Kean thought they were good enough to win, I think it was she boy's influence.

Edit

Ha ha iPhone spelling corrector! I've left it as it was!

[Parsonblue]

Mean picking Edihno to play upfront on his own was criminal. One of the worst, if not the worst player ever to play for Rovers. Him and Jorge weren't picked because Kean thought they were good enough to win, I think it was she boy's influence.

Edit

Ha ha iPhone spelling corrector! I've left it as it was!

Both the players you have mentioned are youth internationals for Portugal and had been signed as first team players. The fact that neither performed on the night is only like Carlisle where one or two were found wanting. My point is still valid in that Kean and Bowyer both picked squad players who they thought would be good enough to win the game but the results suggested otherwise. Returning to the thread I'm still not sure what "Our Rovers" is. Over the 50 plus years I have watched the Rovers I've seen many different players and managers - some good, some bad and some awful. I've seen good times and I've seen bad times. But at the end of the day I've only seen one Blackburn Rovers. The club has never been away it has always been playing in 'Blue & white' at Ewood Park.

[Doug]

Both the players you have mentioned are youth internationals for Portugal and had been signed as first team players. The fact that neither performed on the night is only like Carlisle where one or two were found wanting. My point is still valid in that Kean and Bowyer both picked squad players who they thought would be good enough to win the game but the results suggested otherwise. Returning to the thread I'm still not sure what "Our Rovers" is. Over the 50 plus years I have watched the Rovers I've seen many different players and managers - some good, some bad and some awful. I've seen good times and I've seen bad times. But at the end of the day I've only seen one Blackburn Rovers. The club has never been away it has always been playing in 'Blue & white' at Ewood Park.

I agree with a lot of what you say Parson. I would only add that my feelings for Rovers did seem to change a couple of months into Venkys ownership. It wasn't that I lost my love of Rovers, just that I couldn't relate to what was happening to us, I felt alienated. We have both grown up watching Rovers from the 60's and seen so many changes. The Kean era did feel different to anything I had experienced with Rovers. This season I have bought a ST for the first time in 3 years. I do feel that something has changed. The rubbish that the owners initialy spouted has stopped, coupled with the lack of Shebby/Kean and the introduction of Bowyer and a team that shows spirit and passion has given me the passion to return. Our Rovers means to me exactly what it says, I'm slowly beginning to feel the way I did many years ago, when the 8-10,000 used to attend, the feeling that Rovers want and need us to turn up every week!

[Paul]

Can't decide where to post this. I haven't seen any PL football since relegation. Watched 30 minutes of the England game in a bar tonight - we have fallen a very, very long way.

[K-Hod]

England really aren't very good at all.

We've a few decent players, Hart always looks capable of a howler, Gerrard has looked shaky for a while for me, and I don't see where all the expectation comes from!

[Guest Norbert]

Danny Welbeck is hopeless. First touch like Jimmy Savile, can't pass or shoot. Mind you, his header was pretty good. Hanley looked good from what I saw.

[ABBEY]

Can't decide where to post this. I haven't seen any PL football since relegation. Watched 30 minutes of the England game in a bar tonight - we have fallen a very, very long way.

We won though and that was alls that mattered last night.

[Paul]

That wasn't my point Abbey. The ability of the players on show, even in what is said to be a poor side, shows how far Rovers have fallen.

[broadsword]

"Have We Got Our Rovers Back?" in my opinion has nothing to do with the quality (or otherwise ...) of the team.

It's more to do with the integrity of the management, passion of the players and empathy of the owners with the fan on the terrace.

Over the last few years, Rovers have, from the standpoint of most reasonable fans, failed emphatically on all of those criteria. As a fan, I can forgive poor results, technical limitations of players, confidence problems etc. But, in my view, unless the above criteria are met, I can't feel as if there's a club to support. A football club is about spirit, unity, "us and them", shared experiences, aims and dreams between those on the terraces, on the pitch, on the sidelines and in the boardroom. Without that, I don't feel as if there's a club to support.

In Gary Bowyer, we now have a manager who cares, and who understands the club. He's getting closer to developing a group of players who want to wear the shirt and understand what it means. So, there has been some progress in getting the club back.

But there's still a long way to go, and the owners simply have to go. They're intolerable, and either they will go or the club will.

What they've done to the club should never be forgiven, or forgotten. The modern-day fan may be skilled in quickly re-adjusting their outlook and covering a bad situation in sugar-coated frosty flakes of optimistic spin. But just a quick look back at the last three years tells its own story that no amount of agit-prop could ever obscure.

No forgiveness, no forgetting. The heartbeat of a community's taking an absolute kicking, and it will take one hell of a lot more than a pie and pint voucher to make good the damage.

[roverstdt]

Do we have our Rovers back? Well there is no denying I am a young Rovers fan, (was 5 when we won the league back then) and while I will remember that day forever, the biggest part of my Rovers memory began when we got relegated in the late 90's. The Rovers I remember seeing since then, was a Rovers team that never gave up. A team where the players fought for the whole 90 minutes, and weren't intimidated by the big teams. In fact in typical fashion I tend to remember us losing against teams in the relegation zone one week, and then spanking Arsenal, Man Utd, or whoever the following week.

Since Venky's came in my biggest criticism since day on in regards to the players was very much that they didn't seem to care. They had a manager with no personality, no charisma and offered nothing to the cause. This is the first time in those 3 years that we have a team that is fit, that is hungry, and willing to fight. Bowyer has a massive job to do, but if the Derby game, and Forest game is anything to go by then we will be fine this year. We need to be realistic I don't believe play off's is realistic expectation, as the club is fractured. Mid table to top half would already be a massive achievement after the hell we have gone through. We need to shed the weight of the large squad and dare I say should Rhodes, and Dann leave I wouldn't be overly worried as I am happy with Best, and DJ Campbell both who are proven strikers at this level. While if Dann leaves we would still have Killgalon who could slot in perfectly at the back.

Over time we will recover, and over time we will have our Rovers back as owners come and go, but right now I will be enjoying the present, and right now I like the manager, i like the effort I have seen on the pitch, and the football we have been playing, which is not what I would of been saying this time last year.

[riverside returns]

The feeling seems to be slowly coming back.I would compare it to the feeling as the blood rushes into a leg after you have sat on it for too long andhave got pins and needles. A familiar feeling but somehow still not sure how to work it.