[Archived] Rovers vs Forest Saturday 10th August 3pm Kick Off

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Not heard that for years Gordon

Baby line when I was playing.

[K-Hod]

Absolutely.

I think Rhodes would benefit from a coach / manager having played a similar role themselves.

You could imagine how much Kenny would have brought Rhodes on.

Think wee Dougie would make Rhodes some player.

You were doing alright until the last line. Then you just sounded like a Bolton fan/Nixon.

This trolling of yours is getting embarrassing.

[den]

Thanks.

There have been plenty of posts saying we should even try to sell him because we would be a better team without him. That's where my comments stem from.

Yeah, I have. Don't you think we could use £8m and be a better (I)team(/I)? Iwould have thought that was obvious - given the acceptance that most balls played forward might as well be passed straight to the oppositions back four. (Maybe a little exaggeration, but you get the gist)

[Mercer]

You were doing alright until the last line. Then you just sounded like a Bolton fan/Nixon.

This trolling of yours is getting embarrassing.

It's not trolling but an honest opinion.

I think Rhodes is not developing as he should - why ?

I think he needs to learn from coaches / managers who have played the same role at a decent level.

Personally, I think he needs another very good year under his belt at Championship level before moving to the PL. If I was advising him, I think a move to Bolton under wee Dougie would move Rhodes' game forward dramatically as DF himself was a very canny player in a similar role and all the indications are that he is a very astute coach who gets the very best out of individuals and develops their games even further (eg Zaha to name one of a number at Palace).

[RevidgeBlue]

Completely disagree! Of course he should! Best can provide an outlet by holding the ball up whilst it's obvious to a blind man on a galloping horse that Jordan Rhodes is just a push over for every centre half over 11 and a half stone wet through, not only that but Rhodes is too slow to chase a long ball out of defence down the channels and toward either corner flag. Quite simply Rhodes is not equipped to either play up top on his own or tart line. Common sense dictates that he should drop deep and Best must stay up.

You'd better saddle up that nag and get me a blindfold then Gordon because I completely disagree. Rhodes is best playing on the shoulders of the defenders and we need to be playing decent balls in front of him for him to run on to not aimless punts upfield with his back to goal. Rhodes made several excellent runs yesterday when he needed the ball playing fairly early but our midfield and wide men lacked the vision or ability to pick him out. That's why Rochina is such a big miss imo.

If Rhodes and Best are to play together effectively, imo they both need to be right on the toes of the two centre halves and ideally no more than 10 yards apart. When one or other drops deep to get the ball and there's 30 -40 yards separating them they're unable to link up properly and the one dropping deep puts himself out of play effectively.

Ideally Best should be laying balls off for Rhodes but doesn't get close enough to him.

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

It's not trolling but an honest opinion.

I think Rhodes is not developing as he should - why ?

I think he needs to learn from coaches / managers who have played the same role at a decent level.

Personally, I think he needs another very good year under his belt at Championship level before moving to the PL. If I was advising him, I think a move to Bolton under wee Dougie would move Rhodes' game forward dramatically as DF himself was a very canny player in a similar role and all the indications are that he is a very astute coach who gets the very best out of individuals and develops their games even further (eg Zaha to name one of a number at Palace).

Nicko - come clean, when did you manage to take over Mercerman's account ?

[chaddyrovers]

Absolutely.

I think Rhodes would benefit from a coach / manager having played a similar role themselves.

You could imagine how much Kenny would have brought Rhodes on.

Think wee Dougie would make Rhodes some player.

why don't you go and support Bolton and wee Dougie!!! bloody obsess with them.

and yet again don't see where Bolton are getting the money and staying within the FFP Rules that Bolton's chairman wanted in and was one of the main Architect of bring in these rules. would be double standards if they broken them after he wanted them in.

I don't see any bidding enough to tempt Rovers to sell him! will take more than 10 million pounds because of the terms of transfer deal when we signed him. I have posted these before. but just for the people who haven't seen them I will write them now. We are due to pay 2.5 mil of the fee at the end of the month but if we sell him then we have to pay the rest of the fee left which is 5.5 million pounds.

[den]

You'd better saddle up that nag and get me a blindfold then Gordon because I completely disagree. Rhodes is best playing on the shoulders of the defenders and we need to be playing decent balls in front of him for him to run on to not aimless punts upfield with his back to goal. Rhodes made several excellent runs yesterday when he needed the ball playing fairly early but our midfield and wide men lacked the vision or ability to pick him out. That's why Rochina is such a big miss imo.

If Rhodes and Best are to play together effectively, imo they both need to be right on the toes of the two centre halves and ideally no more than 10 yards apart. When one or other drops deep to get the ball and there's 30 -40 yards separating them they're unable to link up properly and the one dropping deep puts himself out of play effectively.

Ideally Best should be laying balls off for Rhodes but doesn't get close enough to him.

If we commit two men to standing up front, they'll spend the majority of their time watching the oppositions five man midfield passing the ball around. Also, when balls are played in front of Rhodes, invariably the centre half will mop it up. Rhodes doesn't have the pace or the power for that kind of game.

[tonyoz]

Baby line when I was playing.

I was a tart-liner in my day.

[watford-rover]

really disappointing about yesterday, what the hell was kean doing??? its a long season though, no need to get up in arms yet, the way im looking at it, watford were down in the lower mid table for a good while, even when we beat them in the last minute at ewood and look how they finished off once all there players gelled, they bought in alot of new players last year as we have this year so it all takes time

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

If we commit two men to standing up front, they'll spend the majority of their time watching the oppositions five man midfield passing the ball around. Also, when balls are played in front of Rhodes, invariably the centre half will mop it up. Rhodes doesn't have the pace or the power for that kind of game.

Correct Den, there in a nutshell is why we're struggling.

[RevidgeBlue]

If we commit two men to standing up front, they'll spend the majority of their time watching the oppositions five man midfield passing the ball around. Also, when balls are played in front of Rhodes, invariably the centre half will mop it up. Rhodes doesn't have the pace or the power for that kind of game.

Well it's a view, not one I subscribe to, but if you're of that opinion then obviously you can't play them both.

In my view we stand there watching the opposition pass the ball about in midfield anyway with Lowe and Marrow dropping off deep so I'm not sure what the objection is in that respect.

[Jamesw1982]

before the game i thought if we was short of options we could have played taylor or judge centrally alongside marrow/Lowe and putting possibly Olsson or King out wide but if he had done this how many would have then moaned he started king or olsson?

[Majiball]

Why is it bizarre to expect your centre-forward to be able to hold the ball up, bring others into the game and work the channels? Are we really saying that we only expect him to stay in the opposition area and do nothing more than that? I look back at the main goalscorers in my time watching the Rovers and Fred Pickering, Andy McEvoy, Tony Field, Simon Garner, Speedie, Newell, Shearer etc. could all do these things and more as second nature. McEvoy and Garner were poachers but on occasion could play in midfield. Rhodes is excellent at finishing if people supply him but the centre-forward has to be able to do more than that, particularly at a club like the Rovers were we just haven't got the squad that will create the chances for him. He needs to create more for himself. It's not a question of not rating him it's a question of him developing a better all round game than he has at present.

Do they know how to get the best out of him? Seems a bit like Torres's situation at Chelsea.

Absolutely.

I think Rhodes would benefit from a coach / manager having played a similar role themselves.

You could imagine how much Kenny would have brought Rhodes on.

Think wee Dougie would make Rhodes some player.

Think it's @#/? poor if a top coach can't train varied roles on the pitch.

[Mercer]

why don't you go and support Bolton and wee Dougie!!! bloody obsess with them.

and yet again don't see where Bolton are getting the money and staying within the FFP Rules that Bolton's chairman wanted in and was one of the main Architect of bring in these rules. would be double standards if they broken them after he wanted them in.

I don't see any bidding enough to tempt Rovers to sell him! will take more than 10 million pounds because of the terms of transfer deal when we signed him. I have posted these before. but just for the people who haven't seen them I will write them now. We are due to pay 2.5 mil of the fee at the end of the month but if we sell him then we have to pay the rest of the fee left which is 5.5 million pounds.

Chaddy, your unwavering support for anything blue and white is commendable but sometimes you just have to look at things objectively outside of a blue and white cocoon.

Firstly, I think it is clear that Rovers are financially hamstrung.

As you yourself have often said, they need to get rid of all the deadwood. However, unfortunately, this will be very expensive as it will cost substantial money to cut this deadwood adrift - for example, it allegedly cost Rovers £1.5million to pay Murphy off.

So you either spend £7millionish, because no other clubs seem to want them even for free given their wages, to 'free' the likes of Robinson, Orr, Givet, Etuhu, MGP, Formica or face up to the fact that they will cost you £14millionish if they stay attached to the club.

Next point is where will the money come from ?

It has to be from the sale of at least one from Dann, Hanley or Rhodes.

When you are between a rock and a hard place, other clubs know this and drive a hard bargain.

I think we are in one hell of a mess and it will be a long haul to get back to the level where the aspirational hopes of supporters lie.

[thenodrog]

You'd better saddle up that nag and get me a blindfold then Gordon because I completely disagree. Rhodes is best playing on the shoulders of the defenders and we need to be playing decent balls in front of him for him to run on to not aimless punts upfield with his back to goal. Rhodes made several excellent runs yesterday when he needed the ball playing fairly early but our midfield and wide men lacked the vision or ability to pick him out. That's why Rochina is such a big miss imo.

If Rhodes and Best are to play together effectively, imo they both need to be right on the toes of the two centre halves and ideally no more than 10 yards apart. When one or other drops deep to get the ball and there's 30 -40 yards separating them they're unable to link up properly and the one dropping deep puts himself out of play effectively.

Ideally Best should be laying balls off for Rhodes but doesn't get close enough to him.

Your scenario only applies when we are in possession of the ball Simon. When the opposition have it one of them must drop deep and that man imo has to be Rhodes. To allow two to stay up virtually holding hands would represent suicide tactics. Thats why 4-4-2 has virtually been consigned to the history books just as 4-2-4 was in the 60's.(btw I bet few can even grasp 4-2-4 or even 4-3-3 nowadays.)

Rhodes complete inability to play alone up top in a 4-5-1 is why no one in the Prem appears to want such an otherwise prolific striker.

Well it's a view, not one I subscribe to, but if you're of that opinion then obviously you can't play them both.

In my view we stand there watching the opposition pass the ball about in midfield anyway with Lowe and Marrow dropping off deep so I'm not sure what the objection is in that respect.

If there are 4 against 5 as yesterday they have to drop deep. It is imperative when you are outnumbered not to get 'wrong side' of the ball. You should subscribe to it Simon cos yesterday we hardly got out of our own half in the first 45.

[Steve Moss]

Mercerman were is it reported that the club is financially hamstrung? Every "problem" we have exists at every other club, perhaps more so.

There is a big difference between being broke and needing to offload excessively high earning players to comply with FFP.

[thenodrog]

Chaddy, your unwavering support for anything blue and white is commendable but sometimes you just have to look at things objectively outside of a blue and white cocoon.

Firstly, I think it is clear that Rovers are financially hamstrung.

As you yourself have often said, they need to get rid of all the deadwood. However, unfortunately, this will be very expensive as it will cost substantial money to cut this deadwood adrift - for example, it allegedly cost Rovers £1.5million to pay Murphy off.

So you either spend £7millionish, because no other clubs seem to want them even for free given their wages, to 'free' the likes of Robinson, Orr, Givet, Etuhu, MGP, Formica or face up to the fact that they will cost you £14millionish if they stay attached to the club.

Next point is where will the money come from ?

It has to be from the sale of at least one from Dann, Hanley or Rhodes.

When you are between a rock and a hard place, other clubs know this and drive a hard bargain.

I think we are in one hell of a mess and it will be a long haul to get back to the level where the aspirational hopes of supporters lie.

Should be clear to all. A financial plight is all down to the stupidity and naivety of the Venkymob. It's bloody criminal to see how the parachute payments have been squandered through a combination of sheer stupidity on one hand and base greed on the other. Tossers.

[yeti-dog]

I don't rate him as a footballer Stuart, - don't think anyone does. In front of goal he's in his own mould, but Slowly fans will/ are starting to see that his deficiencies do restrict the team every time he plays. That's just a simple fact.

Nonsense. If it wasn't for his 'deficiencies' last year we'd be in League 1 now. What is deficient is the scandalously one dimensional midfield which is incapable of supplying him with anything but dregs to feed off. Perhaps when we have a fully fit squad this might change for the better but until then Messi would look ordinary given the lack of creativity in our midfield, especially in the centre.

[thenodrog]

Mercerman were is it reported that the club is financially hamstrung? Every "problem" we have exists at every other club, perhaps more so.

There is a big difference between being broke and needing to offload excessively high earning players to comply with FFP.

Income and expenditure Steve. Surely you can see that these two are a million miles apart in the wrong direction?

[thenodrog]

Nonsense. If it wasn't for his 'deficiencies' last year we'd be in League 1 now. What is deficient is the scandalously one dimensional midfield which is incapable of supplying him with anything but dregs to feed off. Perhaps when we have a fully fit squad this might change for the better but until then Messi would look ordinary given the lack of creativity in our midfield, especially in the centre.

Take Rhodes goals away and what have you got? Sure he's a sniffer but in two matches he doesn't appear to be even bothered 'sniffing'. Early days in the season but he seems content imo to lounge about waiting for things to happen rather than make them happen to the extent that he did last season.

[Stuart]

Take Rhodes goals away and what have you got?

Relegation.

[roversR4ever]

I think we need we need to take a bit of a reality check.

Our first two games were going to be tough. Very easily we could have won at Derby and got a draw again Forest.

The simple fact is the we have had you could argue our best three cm unavailable for the games.

Cairney could have made a difference to yesterdays team, although he isn't the best defensively Lowe, Judge and Taylors hard working can help make up for that.

I have no doubt that Evans would be a massive improvement on Marrow in that team yesterday, better defensively and better on the ball as well.

With Evans and Cairney our midfield would be that much stronger. Then theres Willaimson as well.

It is just typical that we lost Rochina at the same time that we didn't have the three mids available. His creativity helps compensate from the lack of creativity from Marrow and Lowe.

I cant help but think we would have got a lot more out of both of the games.

Time will tell, but its a bit early to press the panic button.

I can understand why Evans wasn't used yesterday. I would only have used him if we had suffered injuries. Taylor wasn't as good but he is in my mind much better than King and 120 mins with his work rate must have taken its toll.

Id be far more concerned of we don't look stronger with Cairney, Evans and Williamson.

WHAT WORRIES MOST IS VENKYS PANICKING

[yeti-dog]

It must be hard to keep 'sniffing' when all your team- mates provide you with is the pungent smell of sweet FA. If a team has the wherewithal to create plenty of chances he'll do his bit...

[Stuart]

A very good post RoversR4ever.