[Archived] Rovers vs Forest Saturday 10th August 3pm Kick Off

[davulsukur]

so we need to sign sombody similar to rochina then...

By all account we have a fair few players who are natural number 10's. I don't think we would need to sign another player.

[SoldierMo]

I think we need to buy that something called TIME

[GanG2245]

By all account we have a fair few players who are natural number 10's. I don't think we would need to sign another player.

formica is going to leave..

rosado and sullivan are inexperienced...

only guy left is cairney ..but he is not attacking mid is he ? more like a normal mid..

any player i missed?

[davulsukur]

Dunn? Judge?

[West Yorks Rover]

so we need to sign sombody similar to rochina then...

These type of players are very hard to come by, if they're any good, would be very expensive.

[tkturner]

My first game back yesterday as a season ticket holder and I enjoyed it, it felt like the team were playing with more effort and thats more than can be said for the last few years performances!

We lost because of a goalkeeping error very late on which left us no time to come back but overall I reckon we did ok.

2 games in, no need to press the panic button just yet, 2 winnable games coming up and a long season ahead of us!

Keep the faith!

I was impressed with Spurr, looks decent...

[sharpysharps]

I'm another one who isn't pressing the panic button just yet.

Yes 1 point from the first two isn't ideal, but I'm more than willing to give GB and the players some much needed time to gel. This is a work in progress, personally don't think we will challenge the top 6 but I would be happy with a top 10 finish. Rhodes is a worry at the moment with his apparent lack of confidence, but i'm hoping that Cairney and Evans in the middle will help provide more service for him. Fact is playing Marrow and Lowe together doesn't allow for much service to the striker(s) because they are both flat holding midfielders, they aren't the best at those positions either.

Losing Rochina is a real blow as having him, Cairney and Evans play together could be great.

I feel like Judge could be a bit of a Brett Emerton for us, who I found sometimes would just go on an aimless run with the ball just to do something with it, but I do think he will b an asset, along with Taylor.

The key is definitely central midfield. I feel we have the forwards, we have the wide players, we have a couple of decent centre halves, a great new left back so far and a couple of young energetic right backs. Kane has been a bit dodgy so far but I feel he will improve. Kean despite his mistake yesterday is more good than bad. The way I see it Cairney, Evans and Williamson are all ahead of Lowe and Marrow in the middle, we just need them to be fit and ready / free from suspension.

Rovers are a young side and those young players are bound to make the odd mistake.

Finally, the other reason I am not worried is because several of the teams that finished up at the top last season had bad starts. Palace, Hull, Bolton, Brighton all had indifferent starts last season. Rovers had a good start last time, but played badly and fluked a few wins. Sometimes a bad start can galvanize the team and bring them closer together.

I don't expect Rovers to be a revelation this season, but after the last 3 years of one shambles after the other I am just happy if the players give it there all and play with some passion. It's a very long season, and you really can't predict what will happen in this league. Take Blackpool for instance. They have had a great start with two wins, but I'll be amazed if they aren't in the bottom half by Christmas.

[Gav]

Silly talk surrounding Rhodes, the lads a natural goalscorer who almost singlehandedly kept us up last season, it's the managers job get the most out of him.

[Steve Moss]

Income and expenditure Steve. Surely you can see that these two are a million miles apart in the wrong direction?

The club's income and expense are out of whack, I agree. And addressing it to cope with FFP is necessary. Hence the need to move some of the higher earners.

But that doesn't mean we're broke. There is more to finances than an income and expense report. If my income and expense results in a net million loss but I have a 100 million in the bank, I'm not broke and I'm not desperate as my assets are more than enough to cover the difference. I have a problem that I need to deal with but don't have to carry on like the house is on fire.

I'm not privy to Venkys financial arrangement with the club. But it does appear the club is not burdened by debt, despite spending massively more than it took in for no good result. It does appear that Venkys covered the substantial operating losses last year, either out of their own pocket or from loans secured by Venkys' Indian assets. A post from a day or two back opined that the Rao brothers were distressed that GB hadn't brought in more quality. There are rumors that 1-2 players are coming in, and GB has held on to Rochina and Rhodes (so far). This implies the financial tap has not been turned off. I see no need to panic and, despite some posters' doom and gloom predictions, there are indications that Venkys is keeping at least one of their promises in regard to the club.

The only players that have left the club so far, such as Murphy, have been problems or, at least, have not weakened the club. GB is strengthening, despite FFP, so I'm somewhat confident that he'll continue to do so and we'll do very well this season.

[RevidgeBlue]

Your scenario only applies when we are in possession of the ball Simon. When the opposition have it one of them must drop deep and that man imo has to be Rhodes. To allow two to stay up virtually holding hands would represent suicide tactics. Thats why 4-4-2 has virtually been consigned to the history books just as 4-2-4 was in the 60's..

No-one would deny Gordon that your forwards need to work hard and defend from the front as much as possible. Incidentally I thought Rhodes worked tremendously hard and never stopped running yesterday contrary to your view.

My understanding was it was being argued that n he should be expected to drop deep to pick up the ball to start attacks and then presumably be on hand to finish them at the other end as well

On the formation issue I fail to see why Best and Rhodes couldn't work as a partnership with the correct combination of personnel in midfield. Playing two out and out wingers with them like King and Nunes might leave us stretched but I don't see why two competent central midfielders with two wide midfielders tucked in a bit like Dunn/ Judge/ Taylor shouldn't work.

I'd rather have Rochina behind Rhodes but in the meantime we've got to wee with the willy we've got as Souness said. Unless he's prepared to be very brave and take a plunge on someone like Rosado, that means trying to get the best out of the Rhodes/Best combination imo.

[rossyrover]

After being at the Forest game yesterday I think that Jordan Rhodes needs to play up front on his own but needs a better midfield capable of linking up with him as the gap between midfield and the forwards was way to big.

[saxo1man30]

given the players we currently have had on the sidelines up til now, i don`t think our start has been that bad.

[thenodrog]

The cash would come from his sale wouldn't it? No-one's suggesting we give him away. If we don't get a decent offer, we wouldn't be selling anyway. I don't particularly (I)want(/I) to sell Rhodes, but I don't see how we can progress otherwise.

A miserable thought but wont we need the JR money just to pay the bills? I'd have thought so given the stupid outgoings that horrible little bald @#/? and his bumchum on the make saddled us with tbh.

[chaddyrovers]

Chaddy, your unwavering support for anything blue and white is commendable but sometimes you just have to look at things objectively outside of a blue and white cocoon.

Firstly, I think it is clear that Rovers are financially hamstrung.

As you yourself have often said, they need to get rid of all the deadwood. However, unfortunately, this will be very expensive as it will cost substantial money to cut this deadwood adrift - for example, it allegedly cost Rovers £1.5million to pay Murphy off.

So you either spend £7millionish, because no other clubs seem to want them even for free given their wages, to 'free' the likes of Robinson, Orr, Givet, Etuhu, MGP, Formica or face up to the fact that they will cost you £14millionish if they stay attached to the club.

Next point is where will the money come from ?

It has to be from the sale of at least one from Dann, Hanley or Rhodes.

When you are between a rock and a hard place, other clubs know this and drive a hard bargain.

I think we are in one hell of a mess and it will be a long haul to get back to the level where the aspirational hopes of supporters lie.

Murphy payoff was roughly 1 million pounds. But Murphy and Gomes payoffs are on last season's accounts not this coming season's accounts. and didn't the owners used their own money pay this off for Murphy and Gomes?

Formica is leaving to go to club in Mexico and Pedersen is leaving this month on free transfer. probably going to a club in Turkey.

You have no idea what Rovers accounts look like till they are release in December. I don't think they are massive bad but far from perfect tho.

Mercerman were is it reported that the club is financially hamstrung? Every "problem" we have exists at every other club, perhaps more so.

There is a big difference between being broke and needing to offload excessively high earning players to comply with FFP.

totally agree Steve.

A miserable thought but wont we need the JR money just to pay the bills?

its will go to pay off the rest of transfer fee still owned to Huddersfield for Rhodes transfer to us. We still owned 5.5 million pounds of that. but if we sell him then we have to the fee owned off first. if we don't sell Rhodes then we ONLY need 2.5 million pounds to them as part of the terms of the transfer with the rest we owned being pay next season. we have got the 2.5 million pounds for the next Rhodes payment installment from selling Olsson to Norwich.

so if we sold Rhodes for 10 million pounds then we would have 4.5 mill left for example.

[rovers11]

The club's income and expense are out of whack, I agree. And addressing it to cope with FFP is necessary. Hence the need to move some of the higher earners.

But that doesn't mean we're broke. There is more to finances than an income and expense report. If my income and expense results in a net million loss but I have a 100 million in the bank, I'm not broke and I'm not desperate as my assets are more than enough to cover the difference. I have a problem that I need to deal with but don't have to carry on like the house is on fire.

I'm not privy to Venkys financial arrangement with the club. But it does appear the club is not burdened by debt, despite spending massively more than it took in for no good result. It does appear that Venkys covered the substantial operating losses last year, either out of their own pocket or from loans secured by Venkys' Indian assets. A post from a day or two back opined that the Rao brothers were distressed that GB hadn't brought in more quality. There are rumors that 1-2 players are coming in, and GB has held on to Rochina and Rhodes (so far). This implies the financial tap has not been turned off. I see no need to panic and, despite some posters' doom and gloom predictions, there are indications that Venkys is keeping at least one of their promises in regard to the club.

The only players that have left the club so far, such as Murphy, have been problems or, at least, have not weakened the club. GB is strengthening, despite FFP, so I'm somewhat confident that he'll continue to do so and we'll do very well this season.

I think that's a very important distinction to make, Steve. Our outgoings far outweigh are income but we are certainly not skint. We have very wealthy (and crazy) owners who seem willing to finance the club. We are paying big wages to players who offer the club nothing so it makes sense to get rid of them. We are also trying to comply with FFP.

However, FFP may well be thrown out of court next month and may not be an issue next season. It's being contested by the same guy who won the bosman ruling.

[Mercer]

Murphy payoff was roughly 1 million pounds. But Murphy and Gomes payoffs are on last season's accounts not this coming season's accounts. and didn't the owners used their own money pay this off for Murphy and Gomes?

Formica is leaving to go to club in Mexico and Pedersen is leaving this month on free transfer. probably going to a club in Turkey.

You have no idea what Rovers accounts look like till they are release in December. I don't think they are massive bad but far from perfect tho.

totally agree Steve.

its will go to pay off the rest of transfer fee still owned to Huddersfield for Rhodes transfer to us. We still owned 5.5 million pounds of that. but if we sell him then we have to the fee owned off first. if we don't sell Rhodes then we ONLY need 2.5 million pounds to them as part of the terms of the transfer with the rest we owned being pay next season. we have got the 2.5 million pounds for the next Rhodes payment installment from selling Olsson to Norwich.

so if we sold Rhodes for 10 million pounds then we would have 4.5 mill left for example.

Chaddy - if only life was so simple ! I honestly believe that you are way off the mark in your assertions.

Accounts for the 'holding company' should be filed by 30 Sept. whilst accounts for the 'football club' should be filed by 31 December.

What I do know is that the accounts will not look pretty and I will be staggered if trading losses are below £20million and if the auditors have not found a need to qualify the accounts. Little wonder there has been some speculation that life has been a tad stressful at Ewood in recent weeks.

[SoldierMo]

And you know this how Mercerman? Wee Dougie or Coyley tell you that? Or even uncle Eddie?

[Tom]

One thing I'm not keen on is the expectation lowering post match interviews

I know where we are and what we should expect but to come out after the match and make out that we nearly did really well to get a point at home against them is hardly inspiring

[Howler]

trying to be positive - we look defensively sound with our first choice back four and its only been for two freak individual errors that we have conceded in the league.

I've been impressed by Hanley in particular - never used to rate him but he seems to be coming on well now. Love his runs from the back - he often seems to have more skill and composure on the ball than our midfield!

However, the real issue lies in centre mid. I hope Bowyer realises he needs someone who can pass a bit in there and from what little I've seen of Cairney he could be that man. Lowe and Marrow together screens the back four well but thats about it - may be suitable for some away games but not at home.

Hopefully Rhodes is just going through a bit of a dry spell that all strikers suffer from time to time and will get back to scoring soon.

[John]

One thing I'm not keen on is the expectation lowering post match interviews

I know where we are and what we should expect but to come out after the match and make out that we nearly did really well to get a point at home against them is hardly inspiring

Agree.

Not sure if Bowyer actually said it, but it was also mentioned that playing 3 games in a week was tough (?)

Bit early on in the season for that chat!

He sounded pretty distant (shy perhaps?) in the Talksport interview at the start.

Personally will start to make more of a judgement 10-15 games in plus we are missing some key players.

[darrenrover]

I think that's a very important distinction to make, Steve. Our outgoings far outweigh are income but we are certainly not skint. We have very wealthy (and crazy) owners who seem willing to finance the club. We are paying big wages to players who offer the club nothing so it makes sense to get rid of them. We are also trying to comply with FFP.

However, FFP may well be thrown out of court next month and may not be an issue next season. It's being contested by the same guy who won the bosman ruling.

I think you've made 2 pertinent points Rovers11.

1. Perhaps with the exception of Arsenal and United, all teams general expenditure outweighs 'natural' income. The scales are only balanced by wealthy sugar daddies in search of 'The Holly Grail' and the perceived status that goes with it. Our hapless owners are no different but IMO have been duped, succoured, raped and pillaged out of nativity by a host of parasitic scum that generally are all over football in England but saw easy pickings. Whether misguided or not I personally have a hunch The Raos will eventually come good for Rovers.

We still have a legacy at the club, probably best epitomised by Jason Orr, I don't think I would need to comment on his footballing acumen to anyone on here or his worth to the club but he's sat on a lucrative contract beyond his wildest dreams, he probably doesn't give a toss whether he plays again or not but he has contractual rights and he's gonna hide behind them and who can blame him?

2. FFP was never that as has been highlighted. It was just protectionism with a veil. I firmly believe it will be binned.

[Blue n White Rover]

Not at any given point during the game did we look like losing and there were many occasions when we could have gone on to win the game. We were very wasteful in the final third, something which Bowyer needs to work on. However, it will not happen overnight.

The fans wanted a stronger midfield, which Bowyer has provided with the additions of Cairney, Judge, Taylor and Evans. We currently have Williamson who looked decent last season, to come back from injury. These players will take time to adjust. There were passages of play in both games that were very encouraging and given time, it will improve us.

Prime example is Freedman at Bolton. He got off to a terrible start in his tenure, however he was given time and got the players he wanted in. Those players adjusted to his playing style along with the existing players he had. They were fighting for the play-off only 4 months later. Bolton could easily have pulled the plug when he was lingering around relegation.

Majority of us on this site have played football and when you're playing with someone who is not familiar to you, it takes time to adjust and get on the same wavelength. Footballers are no different.

We made the mistake of firing too many managers last season and didn't give them enough time. We know with Bowyer we will be safe. However, the expectations of the fans will be the downfall of our club. We're not going to challenge for the play-offs or promotion, but what we will get is a committed and passionate performance from the 11 that start, because that is what Gary Bowyer instils in his side.

I'm rather looking forward to the Doncaster game. Our first win will settle us all down and hopefully be a platform to finally get our just rewards for the performances we have put in these past 2 games.

Not read through the entire thread - What did people make of the penalty decision in the first and second half? I was too far away to comment on the one in the first half, but the push on Rhodes in the second half was a clear penalty for me. If that had happened anywhere outside the box, then it's a free-kick all day long.

Also, Lichaj (sp?), should have been booked 4 minutes in for a shocking challenge - got away with it, then was later booked for another reckless challenge (which could easily have been a red). Decisions haven't gone our way yet. 44 games left for it to even itself out.

[thenodrog]

trying to be positive - we look defensively sound with our first choice back four and its only been for two freak individual errors that we have conceded in the league.

I've been impressed by Hanley in particular - never used to rate him but he seems to be coming on well now. Love his runs from the back - he often seems to have more skill and composure on the ball than our midfield!

However, the real issue lies in centre mid. I hope Bowyer realises he needs someone who can pass a bit in there and from what little I've seen of Cairney he could be that man. Lowe and Marrow together screens the back four well but thats about it - may be suitable for some away games but not at home.

I think you are correct about Lowe and Marrow cos as soon as Forest started cutting out the midfield and lumping hoof balls over their heads our centre halves looked suprisingly vulnerable. Two lumps forward left men clear through on goal, resulted in the one goal but it could easily have been two. Ever since Dalglish curbed Hendry's charges forward and turned him into a very top defender I've realised that centre halves simply shouldn't do runs from the back.

[den]

A miserable thought but wont we need the JR money just to pay the bills? I'd have thought so given the stupid outgoings that horrible little bald kean and his bumchum on the make saddled us with tbh.

All this is out of our hands. There is an alternative viewpoint to the "we would be nothing without Rhodes" argument. We very well could be a better side without him. However, I don't reckon Bowyer is the man to use that money to it's best effect. Que Serra, Serra...........

[thenodrog]

All this is out of our hands. There is an alternative viewpoint to the "we would be nothing without Rhodes" argument. We very well could be a better side without him. However, I don't reckon Bowyer is the man to use that money to it's best effect. Que Serra, Serra...........

Oh I don't know den....... btw whats Ben Burgess upto?