[Archived] Third Division Here We Come (aka the Relegation thread)

[Gav]

No-one's taking pleasure in this.

It just saves a lot of time and heart-break to by-pass the hope stage and move immediately onto despair.

3 defeats in four games, a rookie manager too close to the players, a squad that's been transformed in 3 years to a collection of has-beens, individuals who have no business impersonating professional footballers and free transfers/ loans.

I'd say this thread represents sad realism.

Absolutely.

[walk down bolton road]

Lets look at the options,a failed second hand shelf salesman and former P.N.E. connected goofball,this dummy should have been sacked when scumbag Agnew went.

Shebby Singh the poor mans Gary Lineker,this idiot is only fit to play subbuteo.

Venkys do we really think they are capable of appointing a manager better than Bowyer ?.

Until a sensible MD is in place we are better off sticking with what we have.

[RevidgeBlue]

A thread full of people predicting absolute certain relegation from first couple of months of the season. We didn't get relegated.

The almost glee in starting this thread so soon is a testament to those who relish negativity. As someone pointed out we didn't get a "Premier League here we come" after 3 matches last year.

Its the default position to be in an utter pit of despair that I find so tedious. There has got to be some gradation between that and Chaddyverse.

Good post. Ir's only three games into the season and whilst early signs haven't been encouraging we have a lot of new players, some of whom have hardly been available so anything could happen yet. If we're still struggling in anorher ten games and there are no signs of encouragement that might be a different story.

There will be enough pressure on Bowyer as it is from the National media who will have noticed that we sacked 3 managers inside ten games last season and who had the knives out without any apparent justification or substance to the story following the Carlisle game.

Having so-called supporters starting relegation threads after 3 games is the last thing we need as it unnecessarily ramps up the pressure on the manager as whilst jim is indulging in his usual early season trolling routine, many supporters won't care or draw the distinction and climb on board.

[den]

Having so-called supporters starting relegation threads after 3 games is the last thing we need as it unnecessarily ramps up the pressure on the manager as whilst jim is indulging in his usual early season trolling routine, many supporters won't care or draw the distinction and climb on board.

Never bothered you when you were slagging Allardyce off Rev.

[Blue blood]

Interesting. IMO still to early to tell as there is a lot of football to be played and a lot can happen in a season.

Plus we still have a fair bit of quality - Rochina and Rhodes can make the magic/take the one chance they get to draw/win tight games. Personally I think there are a number of clubs who're equally as poor if not worse than us, so given the mediocre quality we have in the side I don't think we'll go down.

Having said all that anyone who watched the Doncaster game will know that was a relegation performance. Repeated that over the season enough times and we definitely will go down. It was that bad.

Hopefully it was just a bad day at the office, as (despite being a keanism) the first two league games showed a number of positives. Arguably could've got a draw with Forest and should've beaten Derby. (Less said about Carlisle the better - they're looking more and more like a mediocre league 2 team - played 3, lost 3 -12 GD.) So on the evidence that we don't repeat the Doncaster performance to often we shouldn't go down.

My biggest worry is I don't get the plan, or to add in another Keanism "what we are trying to do". I don't get our offensive strategy whatsoever. What do our attacks look like? How do we try to create chances and score goals? Some managers we've had have got criticized for not having 'plan B'. Right now I've no idea what plan A looks like, nor that we have the players to make a plan. Rhodes isn't the only square peg in a round hole - I've a feeling we've a lot of players who aren't suited to the formation or positions they're being played in.

[RevidgeBlue]

Never bothered you when you were slagging Allardyce off Rev.

You obviously have never read my posts on Sam properly Den. Like Sam the personality very much. Don't like his style of football or his prioritising of games at all. Never called for him to be replaced.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

No-one's taking pleasure in this.

It just saves a lot of time and heart-break to by-pass the hope stage and move immediately onto despair.

3 defeats in four games, a rookie manager too close to the players, a squad that's been transformed in 3 years to a collection of has-beens, individuals who have no business impersonating professional footballers and free transfers/ loans.

I'd say this thread represents sad realism.

Bang on the money Bryan..this is what we have been boiled down to.We're all looking for 'positives' at present but it's like finding Water on the Sun.

[jim mk2]

Good post. Ir's only three games into the season and whilst early signs haven't been encouraging we have a lot of new players, some of whom have hardly been available so anything could happen yet. If we're still struggling in anorher ten games and there are no signs of encouragement that might be a different story.

There will be enough pressure on Bowyer as it is from the National media who will have noticed that we sacked 3 managers inside ten games last season and who had the knives out without any apparent justification or substance to the story following the Carlisle game.

Having so-called supporters starting relegation threads after 3 games is the last thing we need as it unnecessarily ramps up the pressure on the manager as whilst jim is indulging in his usual early season trolling routine, many supporters won't care or draw the distinction and climb on board.

Ironic post from a so-called "supporter" who has taken every opportunity to slag off (including labelling him a "fraud") one of the most popular players to play for the club over the past 10 years.

You might see a thread about relegation as "trolling" but to remind you we have been a relegation battles four times in the past four years. One point out of 9 would suggest we're heading for another battle - but as I stated I sincerely hope we are not. Meanwhile realistic fans will want to discuss the possibility that we might be in the third division this time next year.

If you think this messageboard has the influence to somehow increase the pressure on Bowyer you are more deluded than you already appear.

[RevidgeBlue]

You might see a thread about relegation as "trolling" but to remind you we have been a relegation battles four times in the past four years. One point out of 9 would suggest we're heading for another battle - but as I stated I sincerely hope we are not.

Yes it's easy to sit back and light the blue touchpaper with the simple disclaimer "I hope it doesn't come to that".

You can't lose either way. If we go down you no doubt take credit for the fact you were right all along. If you're completely wide of the mark you simply brush it under the carpet under the "I didn't want it to happen anyway" excuse.

[Beta Ray Bill]

Ironic post from a so-called "supporter" who has taken every opportunity to slag off (including labelling him a "fraud") one of the most popular players to play for the club over the past 10 years.

You might see a thread about relegation as "trolling" but to remind you we have been a relegation battles four times in the past four years. One point out of 9 would suggest we're heading for another battle - but as I stated I sincerely hope we are not. Meanwhile realistic fans will want to discuss the possibility that we might be in the third division this time next year.

If you think this messageboard has the influence to somehow increase the pressure on Bowyer you are more deluded than you already appear.

Trouble is, you have looked for the worst possible scenario every season since I stumbled across this messageboard some 13 years ago.

Indeed, I clearly remember you stating that if we won promotion (in 2000/01) you would leave the site, never to return. You were that sure it wouldn't happen.

The next couple of seasons saw Cool Claret even launching "Suicide Watch" when at the first hint of trouble, a particular crowd on here immediately thought relegation loomed large. Abbey has grown his goatee to stave off relegation at times. Members have looked for the slightest reason to assume that the worse was going to happen EVERY season (bar maybe a couple under Hughes).

So virtually every year we go through this process. Now it seems as if you (or if not you, someone would have), play a game of chicken (see what I did there?) to see how quick a thread could be 'legitimately' started to discuss relegation. I'm just surprised it's cousin "we will be bankrupt by Christmas" hasn't actually surfaced yet, although there's enough Cassandras posting in various threads to say it will be here imminently.

For what it's worth, I don't doubt for a moment you are a genuine Rovers supporter, nor do I doubt Den. However, his prediction on "championship players" in his signature has something he was stating well before Venkys arrived. That, this thread, and the musings of a vocal majority (or more likely minority in reality) are what I called the 'default position of a pit of utter despair".

It is incredibly wearisome, year in, year out. It doesn't have it's roots in the Venkys, KeanOut or anything of the few years. They might have made the situation worse, but it doesn't take a huge amount to waken the "glass isn't even there" brigade.

[jim mk2]

Why would I want to take pleasure in our relegation? That doesn't make any sense. I have only ever vindicated on this messageboard in stating my anguish when Sam Allardyce was sacked and ever since that fateful day defending him against the no-nowts.

Trouble is, you have looked for the worst possible scenario every season since I stumbled across this messageboard some 13 years ago.

.

I'll admit I'm a a half-glass empty man but that's not true, particularly when Allardyce was turning our fortunes round.

I also disagree with those who say we can never get back to the PL.

[adopted scouser]

Bought another shirt for the Everton friendly, On the sleeve it says established 1875, on the other sleeve I'm getting embroidered 'demolished 2010'

[Stuart]

Trouble is, you have looked for the worst possible scenario every season since I stumbled across this messageboard some 13 years ago.

Indeed, I clearly remember you stating that if we won promotion (in 2000/01) you would leave the site, never to return. You were that sure it wouldn't happen.

The next couple of seasons saw Cool Claret even launching "Suicide Watch" when at the first hint of trouble, a particular crowd on here immediately thought relegation loomed large. Abbey has grown his goatee to stave off relegation at times. Members have looked for the slightest reason to assume that the worse was going to happen EVERY season (bar maybe a couple under Hughes).

So virtually every year we go through this process. Now it seems as if you (or if not you, someone would have), play a game of chicken (see what I did there?) to see how quick a thread could be 'legitimately' started to discuss relegation. I'm just surprised it's cousin "we will be bankrupt by Christmas" hasn't actually surfaced yet, although there's enough Cassandras posting in various threads to say it will be here imminently.

For what it's worth, I don't doubt for a moment you are a genuine Rovers supporter, nor do I doubt Den. However, his prediction on "championship players" in his signature has something he was stating well before Venkys arrived. That, this thread, and the musings of a vocal majority (or more likely minority in reality) are what I called the 'default position of a pit of utter despair".

It is incredibly wearisome, year in, year out. It doesn't have it's roots in the Venkys, KeanOut or anything of the few years. They might have made the situation worse, but it doesn't take a huge amount to waken the "glass isn't even there" brigade.

Good post. Not a view point that I fully share but a good post nonetheless.

There may be a small number of fans who will always be... Blackburners (if you know what I mean) but Venkys - particularly in the KeAnderson era have meant this group have widened greatly.

Most realistic Rovers fans will take into account the fact that Venkys mismanagement is the top, middle and bottom of our current disarray and that is where a lot of my darker thoughts are rooted in. There are some Agnewts who seem to have moved on: several who, are even now, still prepared to give Venkys the benefit of the doubt (!) when they haven't earned ANY.

If Venkys wish to stay in the FFP era then they have to find was of circumnavigating the barriers that it, seemingly (when it suits), creates. If they can't or won't then tere is simply no point in them being here. I strongly suspect that once the Sky money runs out they will sell us to someone overtly unscrupulous who will pick the bones out of what's left.

If they do want to stay - and have good intentions for the club (I.e. stability / promotion ambitions) then as well as FFP wizardry, they absolutely MUST bring in the Rovers Trust as an acknowledged partner in the club, with a seat on the board an a day in the big decisions. (This will upset a few people - I suspect because of personality issues and perceived half-truths about individuals - but we must have this connection with the local supporters rather than imaginary global ones). If Venkys do this, I will accept this as a pseudo-apology in lieu of a real one and give them another chance.

If Venkys had any remorse, affection or even a sense of responsibility towards Rovers, relegation shouldn't even be on the agenda.

They seem to over-simplify matters, focussing on matters on the field - I suspect influenced by Agnew's comments about getting things right on the playing side will silence the dissenters (a point which to some extent is true). But then they wonder why they don't achieve success. What they must also do is enlist and entrust a credible football chairman to run the club from Ewood, not be so arrogant and ignorant (even to not change when it's clearly not working) as to believe that a non-footballing chair can do so from India.

Sorry for the wrong thread and poor grammar but BRB made me want to get that off my chest.

[perthblue02]

Good post Stuart, love the term "Agnewts" lol. Speaking of which wonder if Mr lifelong Kean Rovers supporter has bought a season ticket?

[den]

For me BRB, I can openly admit to not having one positive thought about our current plight. I can't see anything at all to enthuse about. Gave it a rest from posting for a couple of months because I had nothing but criticisms to post, However, reading the posts about how the right way forward for us is to sign young and hungry players from league one - and the signings we were making were "sensible signings" quite grated. Bottom line is that some fans are quite split in their views. On the one hand they can't bear to watch what's happening and have nothing but miseries to post, but on the other hand still have that deep interest for a club they've supported for most of their lives.

What are they supposed to do as regards this m/b?

Ps. You should post more yourself.

[jim mk2]

T

For what it's worth, I don't doubt for a moment you are a genuine Rovers supporter, nor do I doubt Den. However, his prediction on "championship players" in his signature has something he was stating well before Venkys arrived. That, this thread, and the musings of a vocal majority (or more likely minority in reality) are what I called the 'default position of a pit of utter despair".

It is incredibly wearisome, year in, year out. It doesn't have it's roots in the Venkys, KeanOut or anything of the few years. They might have made the situation worse, but it doesn't take a huge amount to waken the "glass isn't even there" brigade.

What do you expect when the club lurches from one crisis to another, a seemingly never ending spiral of poor decisions and crass management that have led us from the the middle of the Premier League to the foot of the second division in three short years ?

I'd be the first to welcome any positive signs of progress and have expressed the hope that Bowyer will turn out to be if not a managerial genius then at least more competent than his predecessors. However having seen the squad he has assembled play pre-season and in two of our league matches I'm not that hopeful. Results tell the whole story.

This is just another case of shooting the messenger. I'm sorry if you don't like the fact we could be relegated (and as I stated I sincerely hope this thread can consigned to the dustbin) but fans are entitled to discuss the possibility it could happen.

If you want to be positive why not open a Premier League Here We Come thread ?

[Roverthechimp]

Involving the trust is irrelevant imo - people are getting very starry eyed because of swansea but the reality is that an owner with (realistic) ambition, the best interests of BRFC and an ability to make good appointments (at all levels) coupled with some hard cash and the problems are pretty much sorted. Venkys might scrape in moneywise...

In terms of relegation - think we have too much quality but injuries can change this rapidly with Rochina being a huge case in point. The new players seem hardworking with enough skill to make a midtable - lower midtable side and can form the base of a sustainable squad but if we are to avoid a nervous end of season then our big earners need to step up.

Do i think we will be relegated - no. Is this thread relevent - yes and will be increasingly so if we do not pick up at least 10 points from the next 6-7 games.

[ABBEY]

Hardworking?

[Roverthechimp]

Hardworking?

From what i have seen (3 live and 1 highlights) the players work much harder to close the opposition down than at any other time post Sam. The desire seems to be there to get forward and win games and also to recover possession when it is lost. A lack of quality and tactical nous can be discussed all day but my impression is that the fitness and desire have improved considerably.

[broadsword]

We *can* get promoted, but it would take a massive turn-around in Venky's strategy or a change of ownership.

At the moment, it's a non-starter, and just look at the results.

We'll have a better idea in a couple of months' time of course, but I fear the writing is on the wall already.

[ABBEY]

From what i have seen (3 live and 1 highlights) the players work much harder to close the opposition down than at any other time post Sam. The desire seems to be there to get forward and win games and also to recover possession when it is lost. A lack of quality and tactical nous can be discussed all day but my impression is that the fitness and desire have improved considerably.

I've only been to donny and I witnessed a fitter donny side ,a donny side more hungry for a win and a rovers team devoid of any ideas . It was a worse showing than anything k--n served up. I left in disgust early for the second time in my life.

[Majiball]

From what i have seen (3 live and 1 highlights) the players work much harder to close the opposition down than at any other time post Sam. The desire seems to be there to get forward and win games and also to recover possession when it is lost. A lack of quality and tactical nous can be discussed all day but my impression is that the fitness and desire have improved considerably.

but have the fitness levels truly improved??? We came up against our first fitness challenge at Donny on friday, several of our players had played a full 90 only 48 hours before and we were found wanting. We will only truly see if they are better fitness wise as the season progresses, if they can maintain a high intensity across the whole season then it's definitely improved. But i think to be saying we look fitter after 3-4 games of 60+ is a little premature.

[Rover_Shaun]

The meer fact that Rochina, yes Rochina! is being touted as the saviour of our season screams looking over our shoulder rather than looking up.

Reality check!

[Gav]

The meer fact that Rochina, yes Rochina! is being touted as the saviour of our season screams looking over our shoulder rather than looking up.

Reality check!

Yes that really does speak volumes!

The only way in my opinion that we'll get anything out of the current crop is to bring in a manager that has the experience to get them playing as a unit, and has the tactical nous to exploit other teams weaknesses.

Whilst I like Bowyer, he was the wrong appointment, AGAIN, and we'll go nowhere under his tenure.

[Rover_Shaun]

Thought that from the start Gav.