[Archived] Fans Forum meeting, plus new website

[Ewood Spark]

No issues at Deepdale.

No issues for the cup replay in '05

I'm certainly not pre-judging it. As I say, it can be used as a barometer.

[Baz]

Sorry, I didn't see this reply. However, I wish I hadn't.

You seem to be suggesting that the bubble is ok for most fans but not for you. Your concern for your own dignity betrays a belittling of your fellow fan by a distinct lack of concern for his/her dignity. I think the technical term is snobbery and your post suggests that you think the bubble serves to keep the riffraff away from you. Have you thought of a different spectator sport?

In reality the vast majority of your fellow Rovers fans - who did have to suffer the indignity of the bubble (because of the concerns you yourself are raising - please tell me you see the irony) despite being no less deserving that you or Tom.

Very disappointed with your post, Paul, I have to say.

Paul is saying, how do the authorities target the idiots, so you can get rid of the bubble, and not inconvenience the masses. Peer pressure will not work, unless there are a number of these games without incident, at present.

[gumboots]

Any new Riverside WILL include modern disabled platforms under cover. But highly unlikely this would happen until we had the cash via promotion to the PL.

As for relocations, the one notable lack of suggestion is the Family Stand. Wouldn't kids be better at pitch level and accessible to players pre-match for autographs, photo's etc?

kids see better higher up. At pitch side if anyone stands in front of them they can't see anything

[Stuart]

Paul is saying, how do the authorities target the idiots, so you can get rid of the bubble, and not inconvenience the masses. Peer pressure will not work, unless there are a number of these games without incident, at present.

Paul said he wouldn't have gone to the game if he didn't have special arrangements made for him and his son (for which I understand the reasons). However, he believes the bubble should remain for for everyone else regardless of whether others have to suffer the indignity because of a small minority of potential idiots. That's not right. Especially when the bubble arrangements are exacerbating the idiot problem.

Au contraire. Peer pressure is the only thing that will work - brought about by will for change on both sides. The police are only involved because of the potential for trouble. Remove that and you remove the problem.

I'm not saying it will be easy - or 100% effective all the time (that is not a realistic aim) - but unless something changes with the fans, or there is a sudden increase in policing budget, specially for football matches, the bubble will remain.

[Paul]

Sorry, I didn't see this reply. However, I wish I hadn't.

You seem to be suggesting that the bubble is ok for most fans but not for you. Your concern for your own dignity betrays a belittling of your fellow fan by a distinct lack of concern for his/her dignity. I think the technical term is snobbery and your post suggests that you think the bubble serves to keep the riffraff away from you. Have you thought of a different spectator sport?

In reality the vast majority of your fellow Rovers fans - who did have to suffer the indignity of the bubble (because of the concerns you yourself are raising - please tell me you see the irony) despite being no less deserving that you or Tom.

Very disappointed with your post, Paul, I have to say.

Stuart there are several fans who have posted on here they refuse to attend Turf Moor under these conditions. Are you tarring us all with this brush?

You posted this: "The issue is lack of choice."

I posted this: "Secondly I refuse to allow Rovers, Burnley or the authorities to dictate how I chose to travel to a football match."

You complain about the lack of choice, I presume regarding travel as your previous sentence refers to fans being able to chose the official coaches, my statement is I refuse to have my travel dictated by the clubs/police. Can you please explain where the difference lays?

You stated the issue is "human beings being treated like criminals/livestock"

I posted "I didn't have to suffer the indignity of the bubble. Without the invite I wouldn't have gone." In other words I consider the fans are being treated in an undignified manner and I refuse to be treated in this way. Again can you explain the difference? You describe the treatment of our support as like livestock, I describe it as having to suffer an indignity. Do you really think I'm not saying the same thing?

I don't agree with the travel arrangements, the conditions in which the fans are held and feel the concourse is unsafe. Therefore I'm against the bubble.

On Saturday a window was smashed on a bus and, I'm told, I didn't see it, Rovers fans smashed seats in their section and Burnley fans smashed EVEN MORE seats in their section of the same stand. I saw the bus window but I didn't see smashed seats but have no reason to disbelieve the person who told me this. He could have lied though it would be out of character. My view is while the clubs and police are faced with this evidence they will presume the dangers the bubble is designed to prevent are still present amongst a section of both sets of supporters. Thoughts of the authorities permitting the fans to police the crowd through "peer pressure" are doomed to failure.

I really can't see what you are basing your accusation of snobbery on or why you suggest, not for the first time, I should not watch football? I do not accept the bubble and refuse to be part of it, therefore I do not go. On Saturday I was offered an alternative and accepted this. When Rovers last played at Turf Moor in the cup, I can't remember the season or if there was a bubble, I couldn't get tickets. I was offered two seats in the press box - a grand description for a wooden seat with a pull down table in the very back row of the stand - and took those. Still have the photos to prove it. On that occasion I was on also offered and alternative and took it - presumably you see something wrong in that as well?

[Stuart]

Paul. You said: you would not travel in the bubble because of the indignity and that you were lucky to have special arrangements otherwise you would not have gone to the match

I agree.

You also said the bubble should remain for everyone else

I disagree and ask if you won't use it, why should anyone else be expected to - and what right do you have to insist that they do?

[Paul]

Paul said he wouldn't have gone to the game if he didn't have special arrangements made for him and his son (for which I understand the reasons). However, he believes the bubble should remain for for everyone else regardless of whether others have to suffer the indignity because of a small minority of potential idiots. That's not right. Especially when the bubble arrangements are exacerbating the idiot problem.

Au contraire. Peer pressure is the only thing that will work - brought about by will for change on both sides. The police are only involved because of the potential for trouble. Remove that and you remove the problem.

I'm not saying it will be easy - or 100% effective all the time (that is not a realistic aim) - but unless something changes with the fans, or there is a sudden increase in policing budget, specially for football matches, the bubble will remain.

Stuart you really have got the wrong end of the stick on this one. There are two highly respected posters on this board who can verify the following as I told them about it walking up Livesey Branch Road after either the MK Dons or Boro games. I can't remember which.

Nobody made any special arrangements for me or Tom. A person I have known for 61 years, I apologise for actually knowing a Burnley fan I presume this makes me some sort of leper, and who travels from London to every Burnley home match with another Burnley fan had a spare season ticket as his friend couldn't come. He offered me the ticket. I met him off the train, we went for a drink, had something to eat, he came back to my house for tea - Jesus Christ I invited a Burnley fan in to my house, what's the penalty for that one crucifixion? - and I then took him back to the Preston station.

So those are the circumstamces. A person I have known for 61 years, we grew up together, you might imagine we are quite close by now, supports Burnley, knows my position on the bubble and invites me to enjoy his company watching the biggest game of the season.

Just what is your problem with this and why do you find it necessary to drag this justification out of me simply so I can prove you completely wrong. If I'm now sounding angry the answer is yes I am.

[Paul]

Paul. You said: you would not travel in the bubble because of the indignity and that you were lucky to have special arrangements otherwise you would not have gone to the match

I agree.

You also said the bubble should remain for everyone else

I disagree and ask if you won't use it, why should anyone else be expected to - and what right do you have to insist that they do?

I haven't insisted anyone should be use the bubble. I'm against it. I've stated why I think the clubs/police will continue with it. That is totally different. Stuart you are reading things which just are no there. I'm against anything which restricts my or anyone's choice on this match or any other match. I think the bubble is WRONG.

I didn't say I had special arrangements for me. I said without being invited I wouldn't have gone. I didn't ask for or receive anything special. I was offered a f****** ticket, that's all.

[Stuart]

Paul, that's not my issue at all, and I haven't got the wrong end of the stick. It's irrelevant who arranged your non-bubble attendance. You've got Bunley supporting friends - congrats, who hasn't?!

The issue Ihave is that you are insisting that particular, discriminatory, travel arrangement must be in place for a match that you personally would not attend if you were asked to use them. That's the definition of hypocrisy. Perhaps snobbery was a bit strong and I apologise if this is what upset you.

As an aside though, presumably given the fact that you didn't travel on the bubble you must have had to walk fearfully through a cauldron of hate, suffering abuse and intimidation and threats of violence? Of course you didn't. Because the cauldron of hate is caused by parading Rovers fans into town in cages for the amusement of the locals. (The last sentence is a joke by the way but hopefully you see the point).

[Paul]

Stuart show me where I have insisted these arrangements should remain in place? I don't mean your version I want a direct quote of my words. I've read back every post I've made on this matter and I've said nothing of the sort. You are wrong.

What I have said is while incidents such as the window smashing and smashed seats occur the authorities are going to use this to justify the continuation of the bubble. I understand why the authorities feel this is justification for continuing with the bubble. I do not think they are correct, the bubble should never have been introduced, it should not have been in place this weekend and should not be used in the future. The problem is that if a section of fans act in a way which justifies the bubble, in the authorities' eyes, it will remain.

.

[ABBEY]

I got banned for the word tosser ,posting a cuckoo and once for starring the f word out ,

#justsaying

Paul what would happen if we all got tickets in the Burnley end and there was trouble?

[Paul]

For God's sake ABBEY I was offered a ticket by someon who has known me for 61 years.

Many fans on here buy tickets in home areas at games but probably not this one. I was offered a ticket by someone who knew I would behave. It's simple and only people with a very narrow view would see anything unreasonable in this.

[ABBEY]

WHY THAT RESPONSE . ?

genuine question it was.

I know dingles too as do a lot of rovers fans ....what would happen if we all went against the police rules ?

[Parsonblue]

WHY THAT RESPONSE . ?

genuine question it was.

I know dingles too as do a lot of rovers fans ....what would happen if we all went against the police rules ?

I'll be honest Abbey, that if and when we play them again I'll be asking a Burnley friend to get me a ticket for another part of the ground. Apart from the ludicrous amount of time it takes to get to Burnley and back under police escort, on Saturday we had to literally stand on the seats in the part of the ground I was to see the game because of fans who did likewise in front. The fact that most of these folk simply spent the game looking and hurling abuse at Burnley fans in the Cricket Field stand rather than watching the game does make you wonder if the police have got it right. Quite how it's got to this state I'm not sure. Like a lot of older fans on here I can remember going to Burnley games under our own steam - watching the likes of Dougie and Jimmy Mac - and standing side by side with Burnley fans on the Longside and enjoyed the game and friendly banter. Now its become a military operation to watch 90 minutes of football.

[cesus]

I can't see the "bubble" being changed any time soon if ever. From a policing point of view it is a major success, the strategic aims will be along the lines of :

-maximise the safety of the general public.

-minimise risk to football supporters.

-minimise risk to Police Officers.

All of which are achieved successfully by implementing the "bubble", no divisional commander is going to go against a tried and tested method on the hope that football fans will behave. It's obviously not what people want to hear nor do I like it but as I've stated, it's working. Let's not forget over the last few years Burnley have had some major disorder at home games, against Southampton and Sheffield Wednesday who are hardly deadly rivals, the latter disorder led to around 20 people being sent to prison.

[ABBEY]

I'll be honest Abbey, that if and when we play them again I'll be asking a Burnley friend to get me a ticket for another part of the ground. Apart from the ludicrous amount of time it takes to get to Burnley and back under police escort, on Saturday we had to literally stand on the seats in the part of the ground I was to see the game because of fans who did likewise in front. The fact that most of these folk simply spent the game looking and hurling abuse at Burnley fans in the Cricket Field stand rather than watching the game does make you wonder if the police have got it right. Quite how it's got to this state I'm not sure. Like a lot of older fans on here I can remember going to Burnley games under our own steam - watching the likes of Dougie and Jimmy Mac - and standing side by side with Burnley fans on the Longside and enjoyed the game and friendly banter. Now its become a military operation to watch 90 minutes of football.

no problem with anyone who wants to do that but where do you draw the line ? 1, 110 or 1000 rovers or burnley fans in home areas?

[Parsonblue]

no problem with anyone who wants to do that but where do you draw the line ? 1, 110 or 1000 rovers or burnley fans in home areas?

To be honest I think it will get to the point when more and more supporters decide it's no longer worth the bother. I know a number who missed the game this year for the first time - and I'm talking about guys in their sixties who would never have considered missing this game in the past.

[Mattyblue]

Indeed Parson, and that's why a 2400 allocation only sold out in the week of the game.

We would have took around 7000 to Deepdale if we'd had the allocation- though I'm sure the Lancs police are itching to bubble that fixture too.

Says it all to me and is a shame- but to be fair it does seem to be getting slightly less draconian, the coaches set off later from Ewood and I thought the tent on the car park did a job in preventing a crush on the concourse.

[ABBEY]

To be honest I think it will get to the point when more and more supporters decide it's no longer worth the bother. I know a number who missed the game this year for the first time - and I'm talking about guys in their sixties who would never have considered missing this game in the past.

I know what you mean ,its crazy .

[barry_]

kids see better higher up. At pitch side if anyone stands in front of them they can't see anything

what would be so wrong with having the family stand in the Darwen End lower tier - where the away fans go now - and moving away fans into the upper tier? The kids can then have access to the pitchside (should they wish) and also they can go as high as they want to view the game.

[Paul]

WHY THAT RESPONSE . ?

genuine question it was.

I know dingles too as do a lot of rovers fans ....what would happen if we all went against the police rules ?

Why the response? Because I'm getting pretty sick of people who find it necessary to question my accepting an invitation to a football match. As far as I'm aware nothing I've done breaks any rule. Again as far as I know any Rovers fan who wants to BUY a ticket for the away area has to go on the buses. I was INVITED to go by a Burnley fan.

no problem with anyone who wants to do that but where do you draw the line ? 1, 110 or 1000 rovers or burnley fans in home areas?

So you have no problem with Rovers fans buying tickets in home areas but you appear to have a problem with me accepting an invitation?

As an aside I've watched football for 54 years, in home and away areas, I've literally sat on a chair on the touchline at a cup game all the way through to a director's box seat. What I know is the overwhelming majority of football fans are ordinary, decent people and the only reason we have these rules imposed on us is due to the actions of a tiny minority. These are the people to blame and not the clubs or police.

Football is the only activity I've attended at which it's deemed necessary to tell me where I can or can't sit or how I should travel. Pathetic when you think about it.

[Mike E]

what would be so wrong with having the family stand in the Darwen End lower tier - where the away fans go now - and moving away fans into the upper tier? The kids can then have access to the pitchside (should they wish) and also they can go as high as they want to view the game.

I remember a PL game vs Brum where we did just that (home lower, away upper) and a pal go soaked in urine from above, as well as having to dodge raining coins and spit.

No chance mate.

[BlueMonday]

Indeed Parson, and that's why a 2400 allocation only sold out in the week of the game.

We would have took around 7000 to Deepdale if we'd had the allocation- though I'm sure the Lancs police are itching to bubble that fixture too.

Says it all to me and is a shame- but to be fair it does seem to be getting slightly less draconian, the coaches set off later from Ewood and I thought the tent on the car park did a job in preventing a crush on the concourse.

​I think we already in the situation this is being done due to limited police resources as a result of cuts in funding no doubt.

If we get in to the Prem, the Police will be looking to make a large portion of our games early kick offs. Its a ridiculous situation.

[koi]

what would be so wrong with having the family stand in the Darwen End lower tier - where the away fans go now - and moving away fans into the upper tier? The kids can then have access to the pitchside (should they wish) and also they can go as high as they want to view the game.

We used to have our ST in the Darwen End, when they put away fans in the top tier you get bombarded, Wham in particular are disgusting.

[tomphil]

what would be so wrong with having the family stand in the Darwen End lower tier - where the away fans go now - and moving away fans into the upper tier? The kids can then have access to the pitchside (should they wish) and also they can go as high as they want to view the game.

People in the lower tier, especially kids goad the away fans in the upper tier and the away fans respond with coins, lighters and the odd pie etc. Not a good idea at all as it's happened in the past.