[Archived] Jordan Rhodes

[Tom]

So Jordan remains a Rover!

Feel free to discuss his strengths, weaknesses and all round game here along with our strategies on how to hide him in January

[Sparky Marky]

He can be Hanley's bitch slap....

[yoda]

He can be Hanley's bitch slap....

Is that a strength or weakness?

[roversR4ever]

How do you evaluate what Rhodes is worth?

In terms of Rovers, what does Rhodes bring to Rovers. Simply most likely 25-35+ goals this season. (I do think his overall play has looked a lot better in the last two games as well - pretty obvious he is working very hard in the games - just look at his movement)

If Rovers carry on with the improvements they have shown of late then there is a more competitive team behind Rhodes. A team that keeps possession, likely to create more chances for Rhodes than last season and may well concede less goals than last season. In those cirumstances his goals could be well be what propels Rovers into the playoffs or higher.

Obviously time will tell and we cant fully know yet as its such a new young team - the team is already performing better than last year . Where would we be if some of the silly individual errors hadnt occurred in the first few games, games in which we overall had higher possession and more control than the opposition, which actually I think is pretty impressive when you consider how new the team is - especially the midfield and that you can argue with the introduction of both Marshall and Evans is now stronger.

In my view in these circumstances he is worth a whole lot more that £6-8 million. If Wigan can sell a midfielder for £14/15 mil of the standard of that player then even suggesting Rhodes is worth £6mil is very derisory.

Wigan if they did bid or may any kind of enquiry if not a bid, then they want Rhodes because they believe its his goals that would get them back to the Prem. That is worth more than £6mil.

In some ways Rhodes is worth more to a Championship team that hopes and believes it can get into the Prem when they can pretty much know he will score a lot of goals in this league than he is to a Prem team simply because he isn't yet proven in the Prem.

So sorry if Wigan can get and hold out for £14/15 mil for the standard of midfielder that midfielder is, then we have every right to expect Rhodes to go for a lot more than 6/8 Mil.

I genuinely think with his movement and now it seems is willingness to work harder in games along with his goals he could be successful in the Prem. You need to put an attacking mid behind him who can commit players and pick a pass. If the midfield has some pace so teams cant push up on Rhodes because of his lack pace then you could see him scoring goals as I do think his ability to take chances is top notch. He simply has the ability to get himself into the right positions and find himself enough space for his finishing to cause issues for the opposition.

For those that talk about is weaknesses in that his first touch could be better his hold up play could be better. Id like to point out if you look at how he scores and the types of goals he scores he isn't a striker than just gets tap ins, yeah he gets his fair share of those which when you consider he isn't the fastest player is actually impressive. He scores from all over the box - he can strike a ball amazingly well and can volley. He is also a very good header of the ball. From a defenders point of view that makes him a complete nightmare. It seems that quite often Rhodes first touch isn't to bring the ball down and run at a defender its to put the ball in the back of the net.

Im sure I am going to get shot at but funnily enough I think he would do well for a team like Arsenal as a previous poster has said. I think his goal scoring is far more all round than Jeffers who failed at Arsenals ever was. With a team like Arsenal that already has the ability and pace in midfield to keep possession its actually someone who is going to smash the ball in the net that they need. (that and someone who is better defensively in midfield!)

You cant rule out that now he is hopefully getting better coaching, better fitness training that he wont improve his weaknesses as well. Imagine if he was that bit stronger and bigger which don't forget could happen easily as he is young. The facilities available to him at Rovers are so much better than he had before joining us so there is a chance the technique and strength could improve.

I have seen people suggest that there have been lots of other strikers in the Championship that score 20 goals. How many were capable of or you thought would get over 30? He wasn't far off 30 in a poor team. Its not unrealistic to think in a better team he will get more. Recent games suggest give him more chances and he simply scores more goals. It really wouldnt completely shock me if actually he was in the higher 30s or 40s come the end of the season. He is already at 4 out of 5 games. (he might already have had is drop in form with not scoring in preseason and first few games).

The issue to me has never been Rhodes, its always been we have not had a good enough midfield capable of passing or keeping the ball. I want and expect more than a midfield that needs a hold up player upfront to simply lump the ball to. Get the right midfield behind Rhodes. It does seem that Bowyer believes that as well, Bowyer may have put together that midfield recent games seem to indicate it but time will tell.

[diziet2]

Hi,

The other thread is locked but I can pass on some information for you regards any future Rhodes deal as regards back to Huddersfield.

The was a meeting with Dean Hoyle last night and the following facts were confirmed:

1) If you do sell him at any point over the next 4 years, then any outstanding monies owed to HTAFC will be settled immediately from the transfer fee you receive.

2) Town have a 20% sell-on fee on any profit made above the 8 million that you did the deal at.

Much of this is not new but it was a confirmation about the settling-up if he gets sold and the amount the sell-on fee is worth.

I think it will effect any dealings with Rhodes in the future as clearly you will be looking for above 8 million in a future sale but I would guess it fee looked for would decline not just because of the length of his contract shortening but also because the monies owed ( how much would have to go directly to HTAFC) will also be decreasing year on year.

Admins, feel free to put this where ever seems the best place... merged with the other JR thread or stand alone or delete etc, whatever is seen as best.

N.B. one other Blackburn related thing is that you were in for James Vaughan in the summer as he was going to be a counter weight in a deal for Olsen however he refused to be any part of the deal.

Regards

Diziet

[roversR4ever]

How do you evaluate what Rhodes is worth?

In terms of Rovers, what does Rhodes bring to Rovers. Simply most likely 25-35+ goals this season. (I do think his overall play has looked a lot better in the last two games as well - pretty obvious he is working very hard in the games - just look at his movement)

If Rovers carry on with the improvements they have shown of late then there is a more competitive team behind Rhodes. A team that keeps possession, likely to create more chances for Rhodes than last season and may well concede less goals than last season. In those cirumstances his goals could be well be what propels Rovers into the playoffs or higher.

Obviously time will tell and we cant fully know yet as its such a new young team - the team is already performing better than last year . Where would we be if some of the silly individual errors hadnt occurred in the first few games, games in which we overall had higher possession and more control than the opposition, which actually I think is pretty impressive when you consider how new the team is - especially the midfield and that you can argue with the introduction of both Marshall and Evans is now stronger.

In my view in these circumstances he is worth a whole lot more that £6-8 million. If Wigan can sell a midfielder for £14/15 mil of the standard of that player then even suggesting Rhodes is worth £6mil is very derisory.

Wigan if they did bid or may any kind of enquiry if not a bid, then they want Rhodes because they believe its his goals that would get them back to the Prem. That is worth more than £6mil.

In some ways Rhodes is worth more to a Championship team that hopes and believes it can get into the Prem when they can pretty much know he will score a lot of goals in this league than he is to a Prem team simply because he isn't yet proven in the Prem.

So sorry if Wigan can get and hold out for £14/15 mil for the standard of midfielder that midfielder is, then we have every right to expect Rhodes to go for a lot more than 6/8 Mil.

I genuinely think with his movement and now it seems is willingness to work harder in games along with his goals he could be successful in the Prem. You need to put an attacking mid behind him who can commit players and pick a pass. If the midfield has some pace so teams cant push up on Rhodes because of his lack pace then you could see him scoring goals as I do think his ability to take chances is top notch. He simply has the ability to get himself into the right positions and find himself enough space for his finishing to cause issues for the opposition.

For those that talk about is weaknesses in that his first touch could be better his hold up play could be better. Id like to point out if you look at how he scores and the types of goals he scores he isn't a striker than just gets tap ins, yeah he gets his fair share of those which when you consider he isn't the fastest player is actually impressive. He scores from all over the box - he can strike a ball amazingly well and can volley. He is also a very good header of the ball. From a defenders point of view that makes him a complete nightmare. It seems that quite often Rhodes first touch isn't to bring the ball down and run at a defender its to put the ball in the back of the net.

Im sure I am going to get shot at but funnily enough I think he would do well for a team like Arsenal as a previous poster has said. I think his goal scoring is far more all round than Jeffers who failed at Arsenals ever was. With a team like Arsenal that already has the ability and pace in midfield to keep possession its actually someone who is going to smash the ball in the net that they need. (that and someone who is better defensively in midfield!)

You cant rule out that now he is hopefully getting better coaching, better fitness training that he wont improve his weaknesses as well. Imagine if he was that bit stronger and bigger which don't forget could happen easily as he is young. The facilities available to him at Rovers are so much better than he had before joining us so there is a chance the technique and strength could improve.

I have seen people suggest that there have been lots of other strikers in the Championship that score 20 goals. How many were capable of or you thought would get over 30? He wasn't far off 30 in a poor team. Its not unrealistic to think in a better team he will get more. Recent games suggest give him more chances and he simply scores more goals. It really wouldnt completely shock me if actually he was in the higher 30s or 40s come the end of the season. He is already at 4 out of 5 games. (he might already have had is drop in form with not scoring in preseason and first few games).

The issue to me has never been Rhodes, its always been we have not had a good enough midfield capable of passing or keeping the ball. I want and expect more than a midfield that needs a hold up player upfront to simply lump the ball to. Get the right midfield behind Rhodes. It does seem that Bowyer believes that as well, Bowyer may have put together that midfield recent games seem to indicate it but time will tell.

[RevidgeBlue]

Hi,

The other thread is locked but I can pass on some information for you regards any future Rhodes deal as regards back to Huddersfield.

The was a meeting with Dean Hoyle last night and the following facts were confirmed:

1) If you do sell him at any point over the next 4 years, then any outstanding monies owed to HTAFC will be settled immediately from the transfer fee you receive.

2) Town have a 20% sell-on fee on any profit made above the 8 million that you did the deal at.

Much of this is not new but it was a confirmation about the settling-up if he gets sold and the amount the sell-on fee is worth.

I think it will effect any dealings with Rhodes in the future as clearly you will be looking for above 8 million in a future sale but I would guess it fee looked for would decline not just because of the length of his contract shortening but also because the monies owed ( how much would have to go directly to HTAFC) will also be decreasing year on year.

Admins, feel free to put this where ever seems the best place... merged with the other JR thread or stand alone or delete etc, whatever is seen as best.

N.B. one other Blackburn related thing is that you were in for James Vaughan in the summer as he was going to be a counter weight in a deal for Olsen however he refused to be any part of the deal.

Regards

Diziet

The info about Rhodes sounds feasible although I disagree his value is decreasing.

The bit about Olsson sounds hard to believe. Which brother are we talking about? Can't believe Martin would contemplate a move to yourselves and I wouldn't have thought you'd have to chuck in any sort of makeweight apart from a catapult and a jar of gobstoppers toland Marcus.

[Amo]

The info about Rhodes sounds feasible although I disagree his value is decreasing.

The bit about Olsson sounds hard to believe. Which brother are we talking about? Can't believe Martin would contemplate a move to yourselves and I wouldn't have thought you'd have to chuck in any sort of makeweight apart from a catapult and a jar of gobstoppers toland Marcus.

Vaughan went to Huddersfield from Norwich.

[diziet2]

Vaughan went to Huddersfield from Norwich.

Hi,

yes, we had him on loan last season and then negotiated the permanent transfer for him in the summer. During that time Blackburn stepped in with a bid. I do remember hearing the rumour but did not know if it was true.

Hoyle confirmed this last night. In response to a question about the budget (i.e. we could sign Vaughan or Beckford permanently but not both hence the Blackburn thing came up.)

The info about Rhodes sounds feasible although I disagree his value is decreasing.

The bit about Olsson sounds hard to believe. Which brother are we talking about? Can't believe Martin would contemplate a move to yourselves and I wouldn't have thought you'd have to chuck in any sort of makeweight apart from a catapult and a jar of gobstoppers toland Marcus.

Aye, not a move to us... A move to Norwich in the premiership with Vaughan coming to you from Norwich, but he didn't want to be a makeweight and was happy with the Huddersfield offer after his loan spell with us. So to clarify Olsen to Norwich with Vaughan and cash coming to you.

[RevidgeBlue]

Vaughan went to Huddersfield from Norwich.

Oops, got you.

If it's true must have thought the competition was too hot at Blackburn with Rhodes, Best (Ha) and DJ (Ha) already here.

[Tom]

The info about Rhodes sounds feasible although I disagree his value is decreasing.

The bit about Olsson sounds hard to believe. Which brother are we talking about? Can't believe Martin would contemplate a move to yourselves and I wouldn't have thought you'd have to chuck in any sort of makeweight apart from a catapult and a jar of gobstoppers toland Marcus.

I thought what he meant was the monies owed to Hudderfield would decrease not his value

[Brad]

Can't believe I keep logging on to this website day on day. What a depressing lot of @#/?, truly believe that forums such as this and Facebook pages and twitter has done nothing but hinder the clubs progress over recent years..

I know there are some amazing people on here, and I know to well the bullshit going on. But people have done well from all this bullshit..

Makes me sick to be honest, just stoked we still have JR. Not his biggest fan but how can you not love him.. COYB..

Just back to reading the papers and watching for me and getting over when i can and supporting the mighty Rovers, not listening to half whits on forums or social media!!

[yoda]

The info about Rhodes sounds feasible although I disagree his value is decreasing.

The bit about Olsson sounds hard to believe. Which brother are we talking about? Can't believe Martin would contemplate a move to yourselves and I wouldn't have thought you'd have to chuck in any sort of makeweight apart from a catapult and a jar of gobstoppers toland Marcus.

maybe he was referring to the value in the accounts, no doubt he will be being treated as an asset and being written down by an amount every tax year, the rub is when you sell you can be liable to tax on any profit depending on what you can agree with the tax man

[diziet2]

maybe he was referring to the value in the accounts, no doubt he will be being treated as an asset and being written down by an amount every tax year, the rub is when you sell you can be liable to tax on any profit depending on what you can agree with the tax man

not quite,

What I mean is every players value decreases as their contract runs down (because they could potentially leave on a free) ever since the Bosman ruling. If I were the venky's I would always be making sure I covered whatever money I still on the Rhodes deal. So at the moment it would be about 6 million I think so there is no way you would sell for less. But as his contract runs down so does the money you owe back to HTAFC as you make payments every year on the debt. So lets just say you are 2 years advances, Rhodes is in his last 18 months of a contract and not looking to sign , you'd still owe HTAFC about 1.5 million so you might sell at 4 million if he was due to leave on a free 18 months later.

Hence over time his value decreases even though he is probably a 8-10 million player if you were going on his record alone.

Am I making sense or does it just seem waffle:

[koi]

Strengths: scores kean-loads of goals

Weaknesses: who cares, see above.

[RevidgeBlue]

not quite,

What I mean is every players value decreases as their contract runs down (because they could potentially leave on a free) ever since the Bosman ruling. If I were the venky's I would always be making sure I covered whatever money I still on the Rhodes deal. So at the moment it would be about 6 million I think so there is no way you would sell for less. But as his contract runs down so does the money you owe back to HTAFC as you make payments every year on the debt. So lets just say you are 2 years advances, Rhodes is in his last 18 months of a contract and not looking to sign , you'd still owe HTAFC about 1.5 million so you might sell at 4 million if he was due to leave on a free 18 months later.

Hence over time his value decreases even though he is probably a 8-10 million player if you were going on his record alone.

Am I making sense or does it just seem waffle:

That's a terrible deal from HT's perspective though, what you're saying is that if we don't sell him at all, or relatively late in his xontract HT get relatively little back. I'd want a fixed amount regardless of what we do with him.

No offence but these do also seem to be incredibly sensitive details for a Chairman to be sharing with fans as well.

[Andy]

That was my concern - surely a chairman shouldn't be divulging this kind of information to fans?!

Also, with his audience in mind, who is to say that he's telling the truth?

Much more convenient for the chairman to state that Jordan was sold for £8m than to say, for example, that he was actually sold for £3/4m with non-guaranteed add-ons...

[diziet2]

That's a terrible deal from HT's perspective though, what you're saying is that if we don't sell him at all, or relatively late in his xontract HT get relatively little back. I'd want a fixed amount regardless of what we do with him.

No offence but these do also seem to be incredibly sensitive details for a Chairman to be sharing with fans as well.

not quite.. the deal is and always is 8 million that your are paying off by installments and 20% of anything if you sell him for more than 8 million. If you sell him before all the installments are made though then you have to pay all of the outstanding balance remaining on the 8 million.

The point I was making is Venkys have to factor in how much is outstanding on the Rhodes deal as the part of what you receive goes straight to HTAFC.

i.e. you sell now for 8 million and I think 6.4 million goes straight to HTAFC as the is the outstanding balance so you only end up with a million and a 1/2 and no Jordan Rhodes.

Two years later you sell him for 8 million but you only owe HTAFC 3 million so you'd pocket 5 million and not have Rhodes. However the rider is that if Rhodes only have 18 months left on his contract his value would be less at say 6 million because he could potentially walk away for free after 18 months.

[Stuart]

diziet2 - I've sent you a PM...

[Boner]

Delighted we've kept Rhodes. The debate on his value is an interesting one, I think the key is where you think we're at as a whole team. If you think we're a team that's set to finish 15-20 and Rhodes' goals get us up to 8-12 then he's worth relatively little to us and we should cash in. If (like me) you think we're a 8-12 team and his goals get us up to 2-6 then he's cheap at twice the price.

As an aside, can anyone who doesn't think JR is good enough for the prem say if they'd want him transfer listed should we go up?

[RevidgeBlue]

not quite.. the deal is and always is 8 million that your are paying off by installments and 20% of anything if you sell him for more than 8 million. If you sell him before all the installments are made though then you have to pay all of the outstanding balance remaining on the 8 million.

The point I was making is Venkys have to factor in how much is outstanding on the Rhodes deal as the part of what you receive goes straight to HTAFC.

i.e. you sell now for 8 million and I think 6.4 million goes straight to HTAFC as the is the outstanding balance so you only end up with a million and a 1/2 and no Jordan Rhodes.

Two years later you sell him for 8 million but you only owe HTAFC 3 million so you'd pocket 5 million and not have Rhodes. However the rider is that if Rhodes only have 18 months left on his contract his value would be less at say 6 million because he could potentially walk away for free after 18 months.

I'm not sure if I believe you but assuming for a second you're 100% correct I can't see the finances coming into it to that extent.

I'm assuming on pure footballing geounds we'll never want him to leave but hyporhetically if he left tomorrow we'd still be making savings in terms of installment fees that didn't have to be paid to HT and those would just have to be applied towards the purchase of another player.

[alexanders]

Its not the value Dziet is talking about only our oustanding amount to HTFC. Jordan Rhodes value is increasing when he makes goals. The more we pay back the more we can cash when we sell (if the value remains). Its the same with a mortgage on a house.

[Silas]

A chairman saying how a player knocked back another club to come to theirs is nothing new. We have had it with a few of ours recently, how the players refused other championship clubs to come to us. And I am not sure I believed that either other than for more money.

It's just something clubs do for good PR and to send the fans a good message about how popular the club is and how much players want to be there. Not saying it isn't true in this case, just saying sometimes it is true and sometimes it isn't. Also think the rovers people won't be thrilled about him discussing their private transfer dealings in an open forum, a bit unprofessional, although I understand HT probs don't care.

In terms of the JR financials they seem pretty irrelevant to me barring the 20% fee, as surely this time next year he will be a Prem player one way or another. That will either be with us or without us. Unfortunately, I reckon more likely without, but you never know. A few good loan signings and we might have a fighting chance.

But talk of him having 18 months left on the contract are pretty pointless IMO, as I just can't see it happening, and if it does, it will be with us in the Prem earning 80 odd million a year so being down a few million on him will not matter a bit.

[donis1410]

Interesting that some reports are now starting to come in suggesting that Rhodes is "unhappy" that the bid from Wigan wasnt accepted?!?!?!

This doesn't sound like Rhodes AT ALL......I just dont know where people get off from putting crap like this in the media

[RevidgeBlue]

Its not the value Dziet is talking about only our oustanding amount to HTFC. Jordan Rhodes value is increasing when he makes goals. The more we pay back the more we can cash when we sell (if the value remains). Its the same with a mortgage on a house.

You're missing my point.

The above goes without saying but the net effect is the same whenever we sell him.

Plus, there would come a point with 12-18 months of his contract to go when his value starts to plateau then decline in accordance with the lessening time left on his contract.

Interesting that some reports are now starting to come in suggesting that Rhodes is "unhappy" that the bid from Wigan wasnt accepted?!?!?!

This doesn't sound like Rhodes AT ALL......I just dont know where people get off from putting crap like this in the media

Old news and people just recycling some sour grapes from our old chum and ince's best mate Oliver Holt I'd imagine