[Archived] Jordan Rhodes

[thenodrog]

I get the impression that you are really struggling to justify spending all that money on him DE. For such a top player, the best we get is "he kept us up".

He didn't keep us up on his own last season and the £8m isn't doing much for us this season either. The deal, so far isn't working out as Venky's intended. I challenge anyone to show differently.

And yes, he's still a fabulous finisher in the box.

Not when he's sat in the stands Den.

Not good this and we don't know the extent of his injury but it really was an accident waiting to happen as predicted by many. Putting all ones eggs in one basket is rarely a good policy.

[Parsonblue]

Following on from that then PB, is the problem more one of a lack of a competent partner for JR than any perceived weaknesses in his own game?

I think because of the weaknesses in his game he needs a competent partner. Rhodes is a predator, a poacher in the box. When we play with one up front there is an expectation for him to do other things. I honestly don't think he can do those things. I can think back to many successful partnerships over the years, starting with Pickering/McEvoy in which the players complimented each other. I would love to see Rhodes play with a strong, traditional type of centre-forward. I watched Fuller the other week for Blackpool and thought he would have been ideal for Rhodes. I think the quality of the Championship is such that we ought to be able to play two up top and that four in midfield, particularly with Cairney and Evans, ought to be enough to make us competitive.

I wouldn't argue that his goals went a long way to keeping us up last season. Without them it would be have been more difficult but certainly not impossible and I don't accept the argument that we would have been relegated. You simply don't know who may have been brought in, even if only on loan. This season I believe his goals will keep us out of the relegation zone and in mid-table, which in all honesty is the best I believe we can achieve. However, I don't believe his goals alone will take us to the play-offs. In that respect I would agree with den that £8 million or whatever the fee was, seems an awful lot of money to spend on one player to avoid relegation. If the owners had spent wisely and assembled quality players around Rhodes they could well have been successful. But they didn't. They bought the icing for the cake but don't seem to realise we don't have the ingredients to make a cake!

[DE.]

Sam Vokes scored 4 goals in 46 games last year. Suddenly this year he's playing better because the team is no longer set up to simply feed Austin. Same with Ings.

I think we would be exactly the same. Best is a good striker if utilised properly. Campbell scores goals at this level if given chances.

Our midfield aren't helped by having Rhodes up front. He offers no out ball whatsoever. This is fine when we're playing well and creating chances. But that won't happen most of the time. A different striker would totally alter the dynamic of the midfield. I bet King would be more threatening with a front man that could bring runners into the game (a bit like Yakubu used to).

I don't disagree with you on DJ, have always rated him, but his injury proneness is a huge concern and as a result we probably can't rely on him. Best on the other hand has shown very, very little to make any real judgement.

With Rhodes likely to miss at least a couple of upcoming games I guess we'll see just how much our midfield improves without our top goalscorer making their jobs so difficult.

[patrickvalery]

Rhodes was brought in for crazy money by some crazy people. I obviously cannot prove this, but i'd wager the thinking was 'add another 25 goals to our tally and we're bound to get promoted'. However the problem lies in the role he has had to play. Everyone to a man agrees he struggles to play on his own. But to argue he has been a failure is mad. He has done what he is paid to do - score goals.

The trouble is the work he does elsewhere is a waste of time and energy. What the side needs and what Rhodes needs is a big lump to win the first ball and let Rhodes do what he does best. Rhodes is lightning fast in getting half a yard of space and his finishing is top class when he gets that window of opportunity. Unfortunately for us our options in this regard is Leon Best. A crest-fallen individual whose nose has been put out of joint by Rhodes' presence at the club. Not to mention the fact he isn't a target man by trade anyway. Just broad enough to be a nuisance. But I bet anyone who tries to tell him he can be the target man type gets short shrift. His over blown opinion of himself won't allow him to 'just' be the one who takes the knocks and lets someone else take the plaudits. The funny thing is, when the club was linked to Wilbraham at Palace (someone who has forged a career out of being the lump who brings the best out of others) our fans were up in arms.

Now Rhodes, I suspect, might one day make the step up to the Premier League and kick about in the lower half of the division. There is no shame in that. But I seriously doubt he'll ever play at one of the best clubs in the country. But at our current level he has a quality that is the envy of every other side in the division. To dismiss this so readily is very short sighted. We need to find a way to see this quality more often. However, imo the big problem is we can't do this with the players we have got. The Campbell transfer by all accounts was agreed long before Bowyer took charge, Best is in full sulk mode and who is likely to take him off our hands on 30k + p/w? But with crippling finances and Venky's probably thinking they have invested plenty into our forward line i'm afraid Bowyer is left trying to make a silk purse out of a sows ear.

[Peter]

Rhodes is indisputably our sovereign striker and a fine practitioner in front of goal, possibly the best in the league. Currently however he doesn't strike me as a player in the ascendancy and much like the haplessly one-dimensional Rob Earnshaw he is in danger of hitting a career zenith in the championship, unless he matures and evolves similar to So'ton chameleon Rickie Lambert, who has re-invented and indeed excelled himself at every level and is still an integral component in the high-achieving set-up of today, under a manager who had no reason to retain him through loyalty or sentiment and simply sees a player who still has that willingness and hunger to learn and develop even at the age of 31.

Any player with desire and ambition would endeavour to follow suit. If Jordan continues to show no discernible signs of moving away from large spells of complete super-incumbency on his team mates and allowing moves to crumble around his very feet, I'd have to question his motivation and whether he may ever make the rarefied elite and ultimately prove a rather costly gamble. 8 million pound in the Championship is after all uncharted and its return has been wholly insufficient with just 77 points collected from 61 games in this league; and no Jordan is not culpable for that poor return, but working on some of his frailties would sooth so many of the teams woes.

Truth is without service he singularly fails to impact on matches and I don't think you could say the same of the likes of Ings, Vaughan, Deeney, Austin etc. These guys are better equipped for greater challenges and expecting Rhodes to align himself with them really is not asking the earth

[Paul]

Excellent post

[USABlue]

You're talking rubbish Simon. Who's asked for Rhodes to be dropped?

Ive read seversl posts on here where the poster suggested just that

The reason we're a mid-table Championship club who almost got relegated last year isn't because we overpaid for Rhodes. It's because the rest of the summer signings (Murphy, Etuhu, Best, Portugal's Z-team et al.) were either injured, couldn't be assed, or just genuinely crap. Throw in a revolving door of one bad manager after another and the board-room hi-jinks with Shebby & Shagnew, and it all makes sense.

Nail on the head

[Jimmy612]

I think because of the weaknesses in his game he needs a competent partner. Rhodes is a predator, a poacher in the box. When we play with one up front there is an expectation for him to do other things. I honestly don't think he can do those things. I can think back to many successful partnerships over the years, starting with Pickering/McEvoy in which the players complimented each other. I would love to see Rhodes play with a strong, traditional type of centre-forward. I watched Fuller the other week for Blackpool and thought he would have been ideal for Rhodes. I think the quality of the Championship is such that we ought to be able to play two up top and that four in midfield, particularly with Cairney and Evans, ought to be enough to make us competitive.

I wouldn't argue that his goals went a long way to keeping us up last season. Without them it would be have been more difficult but certainly not impossible and I don't accept the argument that we would have been relegated. You simply don't know who may have been brought in, even if only on loan. This season I believe his goals will keep us out of the relegation zone and in mid-table, which in all honesty is the best I believe we can achieve. However, I don't believe his goals alone will take us to the play-offs. In that respect I would agree with den that £8 million or whatever the fee was, seems an awful lot of money to spend on one player to avoid relegation. If the owners had spent wisely and assembled quality players around Rhodes they could well have been successful. But they didn't. They bought the icing for the cake but don't seem to realise we don't have the ingredients to make a cake!

Don't think there can be too many arguments with that.

I would add to the bit in bold there - That money from last season should not have been spent to assemble players around Rhodes. He could have been a part of the team if the money was right i.e. £3m. If Huddersfield had rejected that then fine, we'll look elsewhere. The money should have been spent relieving Kean of his duties, finding a proper manager and allowing them to build a proper Championship squad - not some stupid football manager dream team full of overpaid mercenaries.

As for having a competent partner, in most cases the answer here is tough! Modern day football suggests most strikers will play up top on their own. The most pertinent position in a 4-2-3-1 is the no.10 role, and that's where all the money is beginning to be spent. Poachers are being squeezed out of the game. If Rhodes wants to make it to the top he better start learning how to play as a forward, otherwise he'll just be another nearly man striker, bobbing between clubs, spending most of his career sat on his arse until the 70th minute when his side are losing.

[DE.]

Rhodes is indisputably our sovereign striker and a fine practitioner in front of goal, possibly the best in the league. Currently however he doesn't strike me as a player in the ascendancy and much like the haplessly one-dimensional Rob Earnshaw he is in danger of hitting a career zenith in the championship, unless he matures and evolves similar to So'ton chameleon Rickie Lambert, who has re-invented and indeed excelled himself at every level and is still an integral component in the high-achieving set-up of today, under a manager who had no reason to retain him through loyalty or sentiment and simply sees a player who still has that willingness and hunger to learn and develop even at the age of 31.

Any player with desire and ambition would endeavour to follow suit. If Jordan continues to show no discernible signs of moving away from large spells of complete super-incumbency on his team mates and allowing moves to crumble around his very feet, I'd have to question his motivation and whether he may ever make the rarefied elite and ultimately prove a rather costly gamble. 8 million pound in the Championship is after all uncharted and its return has been wholly insufficient with just 77 points collected from 61 games in this league; and no Jordan is not culpable for that poor return, but working on some of his frailties would sooth so many of the teams woes.

Truth is without service he singularly fails to impact on matches and I don't think you could say the same of the likes of Ings, Vaughan, Deeney, Austin etc. These guys are better equipped for greater challenges and expecting Rhodes to align himself with them really is not asking the earth

Bloody hell. Why do I want to 'like' this post even though I disagree with it? As a Rhodes fan I want to criticise... but the writer in me can't allow this wonderful prose to be dissected. Instead I'll borrow a fitting historical phrase...

Et tu, Rolo?

[thenodrog]

Excellent post

Indeed. And whilst mentioning Lambert he might have mentioned the prodigious work rate of Rodriguez and Lalana. The three of them really put one hell of a shift in, and every match too. None of them expects to sit on the pen spot and wait for their teammates to put balls on a plate for them ... and guess what? Soton are in the top four, those three are touted for full English international duty and their agents are sat in a very, very strong financial bargaining position.

No pain no gain as they say.

[LDRover]

Rhodes is indisputably our sovereign striker and a fine practitioner in front of goal, possibly the best in the league. Currently however he doesn't strike me as a player in the ascendancy and much like the haplessly one-dimensional Rob Earnshaw he is in danger of hitting a career zenith in the championship, unless he matures and evolves similar to So'ton chameleon Rickie Lambert, who has re-invented and indeed excelled himself at every level and is still an integral component in the high-achieving set-up of today, under a manager who had no reason to retain him through loyalty or sentiment and simply sees a player who still has that willingness and hunger to learn and develop even at the age of 31.

Any player with desire and ambition would endeavour to follow suit. If Jordan continues to show no discernible signs of moving away from large spells of complete super-incumbency on his team mates and allowing moves to crumble around his very feet, I'd have to question his motivation and whether he may ever make the rarefied elite and ultimately prove a rather costly gamble. 8 million pound in the Championship is after all uncharted and its return has been wholly insufficient with just 77 points collected from 61 games in this league; and no Jordan is not culpable for that poor return, but working on some of his frailties would sooth so many of the teams woes.

Truth is without service he singularly fails to impact on matches and I don't think you could say the same of the likes of Ings, Vaughan, Deeney, Austin etc. These guys are better equipped for greater challenges and expecting Rhodes to align himself with them really is not asking the earth

Bang on again Rolo.

I challenge anyone to be at odds with this post.

[thenodrog]

You're talking rubbish Simon. Who's asked for Rhodes to be dropped?

Ive read seversl posts on here where the poster suggested just that

Me for one! (Oh and Strachan for another... what does he know eh? ) And I'm bloody well right too. Nobody should ever take their selection for granted, and if they do then it's a sign of weak management and also will invariably be followed by even poorer levels of performance from the individual concerned. Whilst dropping him is drastic for BRFC given his (previous!?) goals tally it should never ever be ruled out if his performance levels drop below what is expected of him ... and not necessarily below that which we expect from Best or Campbell!

If they drop Rhodes and put one / both of the others in then who knows how galvanised those two (and hopefully all 3) may become, and how their attitude and performance may improve? For any player to be warming their arse on a bench and not given a chance when some chosen one is playing well under par is demoralising, demotivating and just so wrong for the collective psyche of the pl;ayers concerned as well as the entire squad. No manager can ever EVER show favouritism if he wants to keep his squad firing on all cylinders. How the manger does it will illustrate the capability and standing of that manager.

Before you rail against any thought about dropping Rhodes you need to bear couple of things in mind USABlue.

1. that no one is indispensible in a team.

and

2. we might get drawn against MIllwall and Danny Shittu in the cup again! In which case Bowyer may as well play me at centre forward as JR!

[SoldierMo]

Rhodes may be fit for nx sat according to Lt editor let the celebrations begin....

[Stuart]

Indeed. And whilst mentioning Lambert he might have mentioned the prodigious work rate of Rodriguez and Lalala. The three of them really put one hell of a shift in, and every match too. None of them expects to sit on the pen spot and wait for their teammates to put balls on a plate for them ... and guess what? Soton are in the top four, those three are touted for full English international duty and their agents are sat in a very, very strong financial bargaining position.

No pain no gain as they say.

Southampton have three or four quality players in their strikeforce (assuming you meant Lallana); they pay Premier League money from Premier League income and can attract ambitious players.

We are a struggling Championship outfit with one quality striker, a crock and a sulker. My only gripe is why people continue to criticise Rhodes for not being the complete article, yet Best and Campbell (who don't contribute), and the rest, are immune? (Some would prefer Rhodes dropped for Best or Campbell or both!!)

T'was a compelling post from Rolo, as always. But there have been compelling posts from the opposing viewpoint which have been ignored or ridiculed because they don't fit the prevailing 'zeitgeist'. A post can be a quality post even if you people don't agree with it. It's not gone unnoticed, by me at least, that DE (who apparently should create his own 'I ❤️ Jordan Rhodes thread) was the first to acknowledge that.

[thenodrog]

Rhodes may be fit for nx sat according to Lt editor let the celebrations begin....

Good..... However I wonder if his teammates are celebrating with quite so much gusto?

Southampton have three or four quality players in their strikeforce (assuming you meant Lallana); they pay Premier League money from Premier League income and can attract ambitious players.

We are a struggling Championship outfit with one quality striker, a crock and a sulker. My only gripe is why people continue to criticise Rhodes for not being the complete article, yet Best and Campbell (who don't contribute), and the rest, are immune? (Some would prefer Rhodes dropped for Best or Campbell or both!!)

Those 3 came from nowhere a couple of years ago.

However more to the point we paid Premier League money for Jordan Rhodes who from my viewpoint currently appears to have lost much of his 'ambition'.

As for the second paragraph ... I've already answered it two posts above.

[Stuart]

It makes me sad that our fans have so little confidence in the quality of the rest of our squad and manager, that setting up our side to get the best out of Rhodes strengths is apparently not possible.

So much so that, according to many, the league's most consistent striker should be benched, maybe even sold to make room for some kind of miracle squad synergy that is going to occur!

How long before the Rhodes Out campaign starts?

[Stuart]

As for the second paragraph ... I've already answered it two posts above.

So you are a miracle synergy advocate then? Based on what, Bumley? Let's see where they are in May.

But entertaining the idea for a moment, if Bowyer had Burnley's squad how do you think they would perform?

If Dyche was given Rhodes as a Christmas present would he say, no thanks my bench is full? How often has Dyche put Volkes and Ings on the bench when they are fit? My guess is never. But because they have had the bounce of the ball so far this season he hasn't had to worry about that, has he?

Another question, what do you think Dyche, or Allardyce for that matter, would do if they had Best on the bench behind Ings and Volkes?

[thenodrog]

So you are a miracle synergy advocate then? Based on what, Bumley? Let's see where they are in May.

But entertaining the idea for a moment, if Bowyer had Burnley's squad how do you think they would perform?

If Dyche was given Rhodes as a Christmas present would he say, no thanks my bench is full? How often has Dyche put Volkes and Ings on the bench when they are fit? My guess is never. But because they have had the bounce of the ball so far this season he hasn't had to worry about that, has he?

Another question, what do you think Dyche, or Allardyce for that matter, would do if they had Best on the bench behind Ings and Volkes?

Burnley? When did I mention Burnley?

[den]

Le Chuck..........good to see you posting again.

[Lancs Rover]

There are two apples: there are two people. One person eats both apples. On average, they have had one apple each.

That is what 'statistics' is.

I like Rhodes as a player.

But statistics only tell part of the story.

[Stuart]

Burnley? When did I mention Burnley?

Ok. Excluding Bumley, why do you think our whole will be greater than the sum of it's parts without Rhodes buggering things up then?

[den]

I've already admitted we overpaid for him, so I'm not trying to justify the fee itself. All I'm saying is he's still been a success here, regardless of his fee, and if 10 goals in 15 games "isn't doing much" this season then I don't know what you want. Two goals a game? Three goals a game? To do the job of the midfield and defence as well as his own role?

He was bought to fire us back to the PL DE. Nothing else would make any sense whatsoever. Last season we almost went down, while this season so far, it's not working. For him personally, he's been successful. For rovers, that plan hasn't worked and it doesn't look like it will.

A different approach might have seen us doing much better than we have done so far.

[Tom]

Stuart you say Best and DJ Are immune yet best has got more stick than most certainly more than Rhodes does and normally it's deserved but I've often seen it said in a game that best was crap and at the same time Rhodes was strangled for service.

Id like to see the two of them up top again as apparently they were great against Bournmouth

[rog of the rovers]

False alarm, everyone back to work, as you were.......

[savage90]

I think the question you have to ask yourself is 'Can we win a game without him?' if you're unsure, there's your answer.