[Archived] Jordan Rhodes

[Bucksrover]

Good news.

Does anyone know when the strapping on his hand is coming off? - I don't think it helps his game.

[thenodrog]

Ok. Excluding Bumley, why do you think our whole will be greater than the sum of it's parts without Rhodes buggering things up then?

Already inferred that squad morale will suffer if Bowyer allows 'favourites' who become untouchable.

[Stuart]

Already inferred that squad morale will suffer if Bowyer allows 'favourites' who become untouchable.

Well, Jason Lowe being picked first for every game must be a real bummer for them.

[DE.]

He was bought to fire us back to the PL DE. Nothing else would make any sense whatsoever. Last season we almost went down, while this season so far, it's not working. For him personally, he's been successful. For rovers, that plan hasn't worked and it doesn't look like it will.

A different approach might have seen us doing much better than we have done so far.

Rhodes was brought in to score goals as a striker. He's done that. If the £8m was spent on Rhodes to take us to the Premiership then it's a failure of those conducting the transfer policy, not Jordan himself. He did not dictate his fee nor did he offer himself ridiculous wages.

It sounds like your issue is with those conducting Rovers transfer policy (at the time Shebby Singh and Steve Kean) rather than Jordan Rhodes. Similarly most people's gripes about Rhodes are actually issues with our style of play, not Jordan himself.

[Speedie Dived]

It sounds like your issue is with those conducting Rovers transfer policy (at the time Shebby Singh and Steve Kean) rather than Jordan Rhodes. Similarly most people's gripes about Rhodes are actually issues with our style of play, not Jordan himself.

Can you not see how intrinsically linked Rhodes is to our style of play? The game today is about winning the midfield possession battle, and the majority of teams do this now with 5 in midfield. As soon as you have two up front you are snookered in the majority of games. Therefore teams go with one up front. Goals is no longer the be all and end all for the modern player, you have to do so much more. Cardiff won the league last year, top goal scorer got 8.

[DE.]

Can you not see how intrinsically linked Rhodes is to our style of play? The game today is about winning the midfield possession battle, and the majority of teams do this now with 5 in midfield. As soon as you have two up front you are snookered in the majority of games. Therefore teams go with one up front. Goals is no longer the be all and end all for the modern player, you have to do so much more. Cardiff won the league last year, top goal scorer got 8.

Rhodes can be effective in plenty of formations and styles. It's not his fault we play a slow and turgid style of football, is it?

[RevidgeBlue]

Well, Jason Lowe being picked first for every game must be a real bummer for them.

Exactly. Strange how everyone expects Rhodes to be the perfect all round striker whereas no-one seems to mind Lowe is apparently still developing and no-one minds he can't pass the ball forward, tackle, dribble, head the ball, score enough goals or close the ball down effectively.

[K-Hod]

Exactly. Strange how everyone expects Rhodes to be the perfect all round striker whereas no-one seems to mind Lowe is apparently still developing and no-one minds he can't pass the ball forward, tackle, dribble, head the ball, score enough goals or close the ball down effectively.

You reckon??

[DE.]

Exactly. Strange how everyone expects Rhodes to be the perfect all round striker whereas no-one seems to mind Lowe is apparently still developing and no-one minds he can't pass the ball forward, tackle, dribble, head the ball, score enough goals or close the ball down effectively.

Quite the opposite exactly. It's become the in-thing on here to praise Lowe regardless of performance.

But apparently the entire reason we play bad football is because of Jordan Rhodes, so, I guess it isn't Jason's fault.

[Blue blood]

Some great posts here from Rolo, Le Churck and Parson. Good to see healthy well articulated debate on the message board.

My thoughts are at Championship level that you don't get complete players, in fact far from it; players with obvious strengths and weaknesses. The trick is to get a team of players where you can maximize their strengths and limit their weaknesses. It's the manager's role to chose the formation and players that does this, and through transfers bring in players who fit into this system, and "fill in the gaps" so to speak.

The problem is Rhodes doesn't fit with the system at all. A 4-2-3-1 system does play to some of the players strengths - I think in part that's why we're seeing an upturn in form of the likes of Lowe and King. In a front 3 King has less defensive work to do, and can focus on his strengths (running at and scaring defenders) and Lowe in the 2 can focus on breaking up the play and haring about all over the pitch. Lowe's passing/creativity hasn't really improved, King still isn't great at defending - difference is we're playing a formation/team that suits them.

The problem is for Rhodes that for him to thrive the 4-2-3-1 formation does not work. At least not with the personnel we have. Another really pacy winger would help stretch the play, and if you had someone creative like Rochina pulling the strings, giving the opposition something else to worry about and bringing others in to play, then yes a 4-2-3-1 would allow Rhodes to play to his strengths. Problem is we don't really have this.

This leaves Bowyer in a horrible situation, especially due to a lack of viable alternatives. Either he gets in players and sets up in a way to maximize Rhodes' strengths - which probably undoes the effectiveness of a lot of the other players. Or he plays the formation which suits us which highlights Rhodes weaknesses. Either way we're going to struggle up front because given the other players that we have (available) and Rhodes have very differing needs in terms of formation for them to flourish.

[jim mk2]

Exactly. Strange how everyone expects Rhodes to be the perfect all round striker whereas no-one seems to mind Lowe is apparently still developing and no-one minds he can't pass the ball forward, tackle, dribble, head the ball, score enough goals or close the ball down effectively.

No one expects a "perfect allround striker". If he were he wouldn't be with us. It's not unreasonable however to expect a forward to work hard - like all the best strikers do. Watch any game at the top level and they all work their socks off - they wouldn't be picked and survive at that level if they didn't. Rhodes's problem is that he thinks he's better than he is - and he's fundamentally lazy.

[FGS5635]

If your at the next game, just watch Rhodes and Rhodes only for 15mins and honestly critique what you see. Look past the stats and the PR and just go with your eyes

[RevidgeBlue]

No one expects a "perfect allround striker". If he were he wouldn't be with us. It's not unreasonable however to expect a forward to work hard - like all the best strikers do. Watch any game at the top level and they all work their socks off - they wouldn't be picked and survive at that level if they didn't. Rhodes's problem is that he thinks he's better than he is - and he's fundamentally lazy.

Ridiculous comment jim. If people said there were aspects of his game Rhodes could improve that's probably fair comment as with most players, although in our side it's probably a bit like complaining the paint job on a boat isn't good enough whilst ignoring the fact that in the back it has a bloody great hole in it and is sinking.

Rhodes is not a physical player but actually works extremely hard imo and rarely stops running or moving

This debate will no doubt continue going round in circles until we get one or more of Evans, Rochina or Dunn back, we have something which vaguely resembles a competent midfield, Rhodes starts scoring again and then it will no doubt go quiet for a few games until the next time he goes a game or two without scoring.

[Boz]

Thank goodness Gary Winston snubbed us in 1992, though this was probably before BRFCS.

[Speedie Dived]

Rhodes can be effective in plenty of formations and styles. It's not his fault we play a slow and turgid style of football, is it?

I don't believe he is consistently effective for the team on his own up front. It's no coincidence that Strachan favoured Kenny Miller over Rhodes when playing that role.

[Tom]

This debate will no doubt continue going round in circles until we get one or more of Evans, Rochina or Dunn back, we have something which vaguely resembles a competent midfield, Rhodes starts scoring again and then it will no doubt go quiet for a few games until the next time he goes a game or two without scoring.

Not at all, his goals aren't being debated here so him scoring doesn't negate the arguments well presented by Parson, Rolo and others. In fact everytime he scores it seems someone will say 'that will keep the Rhodes haters quiet' when nobody has ever disputed he's a simply superb finisher.

Lets hope that Dunn, Best or Rochina are back before the next game so we can compliment him correctly

[Stuart]

Good to see healthy well articulated debate on the message board.

Agreed. Although it does seem that all of the (BRFCS-approved) 'great' posts are those advocating that Rhodes needs to change his game - even if it makes him less prolific - rather than set up the team utilise his knack for goals. I also think DE has made some excellent points which have largely been ignored or swept away dismissively.

My thoughts are at Championship level that you don't get complete players, in fact far from it; players with obvious strengths and weaknesses. The trick is to get a team of players where you can maximize their strengths and limit their weaknesses. It's the manager's role to chose the formation and players that does this, and through transfers bring in players who fit into this system, and "fill in the gaps" so to speak.

No arguments with this. A very good point in fact.

I wonder if Rhodes would be getting this criticism if we had not lost Rochina, Dunn and even Evans. I suspect not.

So if not, then is it fair to expect one player to make up for injuries to key players rather than asking the midfielders to step up?

For me, whilst we persist with Lowe in CM, this slows down our game and actually works AGAINST Rhodes style.

Here's a direct question then: In a straight choice between playing Rhodes or Lowe, with the other on the bench, which would people prefer?

Thank goodness Gary Winston snubbed us in 1992, though this was probably before BRFCS.

Is that "iPhone" for Linekar?

Jeez, he would have been ridden out of town quick sharp!

[Stuart]

Bad news, folks!

http://www.teamtalk.com/championship/9026895/Sky-Bet-Championship-Blackburn-striker-Jordan-Rhodes-could-be-fit-to-face-Reading

Looks like Rhodes might be fit for Rovers' next match.

(Calm down, it's a joke).

[Bucksrover]

It's an interesting discussion - Is the problem Rhodes or the system we play. And do we actually want him to be the complete striker anyway because then he would be off to the Premiership in January.

I think a key problem has been playing 2 defensive midfielders. It may sound odd but I think it anchors the team so deep that when we do get the ball we struggle to get forward quickly in numbers to build an attack and create for Rhodes. Far too often our only outlet is when King goes on a run.

[DanLad]

I presumed that the Rhodes injury was fairly minor and that he'd be back for the next game. Rhodes turned up for international training, it became apparent that he would not feature and a niggle injury meant that he could go home and rest up for a weekend. He's not snubbed the national team (who won't miss him as he wasn't going to play anyway) and still gets to rest up for a while. A ridiculous charade, but everyone comes out of it better off and smelling of roses.

[OJRovers]

It would be easier if strachen just left him out of the squad completely

[AggyBlue]

Rhodes was brought in to score goals as a striker. He's done that. If the £8m was spent on Rhodes to take us to the Premiership then it's a failure of those conducting the transfer policy, not Jordan himself. He did not dictate his fee nor did he offer himself ridiculous wages.

He also doesn't pick the team, choose the formation or dictate the tactics.

According to some it's all on his shoulders, even down to the fact we didn't get promoted last season

[Tom]

Again with the hyperbole - not a single person has said that

[Blue blood]

Agreed. Although it does seem that all of the (BRFCS-approved) 'great' posts are those advocating that Rhodes needs to change his game - even if it makes him less prolific - rather than set up the team utilise his knack for goals. I also think DE has made some excellent points which have largely been ignored or swept away dismissively.

No arguments with this. A very good point in fact.

I wonder if Rhodes would be getting this criticism if we had not lost Rochina, Dunn and even Evans. I suspect not.

So if not, then is it fair to expect one player to make up for injuries to key players rather than asking the midfielders to step up?

For me, whilst we persist with Lowe in CM, this slows down our game and actually works AGAINST Rhodes style.

Here's a direct question then: In a straight choice between playing Rhodes or Lowe, with the other on the bench, which would people prefer?

Is that "iPhone" for Linekar?

Jeez, he would have been ridden out of town quick sharp!

Not really but it's the same as last season with lack of creativity in the center of the park and Jason Lowe. At premiership level there's a call to do most things at least competently - but championship the standard is much lower, and flaws are ok if your strengths outweigh them.

Even with the players mentioned though, I still think the system is only beginning to play to Rhodes strength. Another pacy or dynamic winger is needed to get the best out of him.

It's an interesting discussion - Is the problem Rhodes or the system we play. And do we actually want him to be the complete striker anyway because then he would be off to the Premiership in January.

I think a key problem has been playing 2 defensive midfielders. It may sound odd but I think it anchors the team so deep that when we do get the ball we struggle to get forward quickly in numbers to build an attack and create for Rhodes. Far too often our only outlet is when King goes on a run.

I'd say the problem is Rhodes IN the system we play. As I argued before the system helps get the best out of other players but not Rhodes. But then getting a system that truly suited Rhodes is tricky even with everyone fit. As it currently is, I really can't see us doing it.

It'd help if Best and Campbell were better as it may make it easier for Bowyer to put the right players in the right system. Or if we could get in a couple of players that'd complement Rhodes on loan. Neither will happen though.

Incidentally this whole Rhodes argument could be the same for Lowe or King in a 4-4-2, would they fit, do their weaknesses mean they should be jettisoned etc

[DE.]

Agreed. Although it does seem that all of the (BRFCS-approved) 'great' posts are those advocating that Rhodes needs to change his game - even if it makes him less prolific - rather than set up the team utilise his knack for goals. I also think DE has made some excellent points which have largely been ignored or swept away dismissively.

I don't mind so much, in fact it's interesting to see some of the critics arguments morph to include points I've made despite them not being directly acknowledged at the time of the post. A small victory

Bad news, folks!

http://www.teamtalk.com/championship/9026895/Sky-Bet-Championship-Blackburn-striker-Jordan-Rhodes-could-be-fit-to-face-Reading

Looks like Rhodes might be fit for Rovers' next match.

(Calm down, it's a joke).

For those so desperate to see Best and DJ play in a 442 (seriously, why?) this is bad news.

I think a key problem has been playing 2 defensive midfielders. It may sound odd but I think it anchors the team so deep that when we do get the ball we struggle to get forward quickly in numbers to build an attack and create for Rhodes. Far too often our only outlet is when King goes on a run.

A point I've made numerous times which continually gets ignored. When I asked who exactly Rhodes is holding the ball up for, or crossing to, 'Drog came up with "his team mates" which is about as specific as we've gotten. I'd love to know who, aside from King, has the pace, skill or finishing prowess necessary to benefit from Jordan's new skillset. I suppose in another 96 matches or so we might get another screamer from golden boy Jason Lowe.

Again with the hyperbole - not a single person has said that

Some are basically implying that, suggesting the entire reason our system fails is because he's on the pitch. There are some absolutely ridiculous comments about him on this thread.

I'd say the problem is Rhodes IN the system we play. As I argued before the system helps get the best out of other players but not Rhodes. But then getting a system that truly suited Rhodes is tricky even with everyone fit. As it currently is, I really can't see us doing it.

If Ruben comes back, Dunn & Evans are fit for a long period and King continues to produce the goods we can come pretty damn close. It won't solve our black hole of a defence but it will ease the pressure on Rhodes to basically pull us out of the brown stuff every match. If we could get one more pacy winger similar to King in January we'd have a decent attacking line imo.