[Archived] Jordan Rhodes

[West Yorks Rover]

Rhodes is indisputably our sovereign striker and a fine practitioner in front of goal, possibly the best in the league. Currently however he doesn't strike me as a player in the ascendancy and much like the haplessly one-dimensional Rob Earnshaw he is in danger of hitting a career zenith in the championship, unless he matures and evolves similar to So'ton chameleon Rickie Lambert, who has re-invented and indeed excelled himself at every level and is still an integral component in the high-achieving set-up of today, under a manager who had no reason to retain him through loyalty or sentiment and simply sees a player who still has that willingness and hunger to learn and develop even at the age of 31.

Any player with desire and ambition would endeavour to follow suit. If Jordan continues to show no discernible signs of moving away from large spells of complete super-incumbency on his team mates and allowing moves to crumble around his very feet, I'd have to question his motivation and whether he may ever make the rarefied elite and ultimately prove a rather costly gamble. 8 million pound in the Championship is after all uncharted and its return has been wholly insufficient with just 77 points collected from 61 games in this league; and no Jordan is not culpable for that poor return, but working on some of his frailties would sooth so many of the teams woes.

Truth is without service he singularly fails to impact on matches and I don't think you could say the same of the likes of Ings, Vaughan, Deeney, Austin etc. These guys are better equipped for greater challenges and expecting Rhodes to align himself with them really is not asking the earth

I think Jordan is a cracking lad from what I've heard !

But have to agree with this excellent post.

[thenodrog]

I don't believe he is consistently effective for the team on his own up front. It's no coincidence that Strachan favoured Kenny Miller over Rhodes when playing that role.

Quite right. Strachan dropped Rhodes cos Scotland have a weak midfield which forces them down the long ball route to a striker who can fend off defenders and hold the ball up. Rhodes simply is neither good enough nor strong enough with his back to goal to perform that task and as a result pressure is heaped straight back on an overworked defence until they inevitably crack.

Ring any bells with anyone?

[thenodrog]

It's an interesting discussion - Is the problem Rhodes or the system we play. And do we actually want him to be the complete striker anyway because then he would be off to the Premiership in January.

Definitely. We'll have invested/blown 16m in him by 2016 so if he would/could develop into a 16m player that would be brilliant. We could then perhaps go and do it again with more players. Thats the way it is and the way it has to be now we are out of the Prem. To see him walk away for sod all in 2 and a half years time would be an unmitigated financial disaster.

Losing Austin must have seemed calamitious to the dingles but it's actually done them good.

[bluebruce]

I did somewhat suspect Rhodes might be ready for our next game. That's three times now? That he has been 'injured' on international duty and been ready for our next game. At least he has the cast to prove the hand one,but suspect he can't be bothered with the international setup, especially since he's not getting game time.

[roversfan99]

If Ruben comes back, Dunn & Evans are fit for a long period and King continues to produce the goods we can come pretty damn close. It won't solve our black hole of a defence but it will ease the pressure on Rhodes to basically pull us out of the brown stuff every match. If we could get one more pacy winger similar to King in January we'd have a decent attacking line imo.

I still don't quite understand the signing of Marshall, and for a decent chunk of money, and feel that Bowyer made a mistake in signing a player very similar in style to Judge and Taylor seemingly, whilst not looking superior in quality.

We should have signed a pacier player to compete for the right wing, maybe someone like Adomah.

[thenodrog]

I did somewhat suspect Rhodes might be ready for our next game. That's three times now? That he has been 'injured' on international duty and been ready for our next game. At least he has the cast to prove the hand one,but suspect he can't be bothered with the international setup, especially since he's not getting game time.

Mutual and politically based agreement with Strachan I'd wager. Leaving him out of the set up could damage both their reputations.

[DE.]

I still don't quite understand the signing of Marshall, and for a decent chunk of money, and feel that Bowyer made a mistake in signing a player very similar in style to Judge and Taylor seemingly, whilst not looking superior in quality.

We should have signed a pacier player to compete for the right wing, maybe someone like Adomah.

Arguably all three of those players were mistakes, along with Marrow. Then again, do we even have a proper scouting department or anyone beyond shelfy to negotiate transfers? Might explain a few things.

[bluebruce]

Mutual and politically based agreement with Strachan I'd wager. Leaving him out of the set up could damage both their reputations.

To be honest though I don't see the harm for either of them in just bringing him along as a squad member. If they end up needing him, he'd be there to be used and surely isn't going to mind a 20 minute run out, or longer as it might give him the chance to show he can do it. If they don't, it doesn't tire him out anyway.

[Speedie Dived]

A point I've made numerous times which continually gets ignored. When I asked who exactly Rhodes is holding the ball up for, or crossing to, 'Drog came up with "his team mates" which is about as specific as we've gotten. I'd love to know who, aside from King, has the pace, skill or finishing prowess necessary to benefit from Jordan's new skillset. I suppose in another 96 matches or so we might get another screamer from golden boy Jason Lowe.

Some are basically implying that, suggesting the entire reason our system fails is because he's on the pitch. There are some absolutely ridiculous comments about him on this thread.

I am really struggling to understand your point. You are saying that we don't have players to get past Rhodes, so therefore he doesn't hold the ball up? If Drogba (extreme example used to emphasize my point) played for us til the end of the season and did not score 1 goal, i think as a team we would score more goals than we currently would. He would bring other players into the game further up the park.

[DE.]

I am really struggling to understand your point. You are saying that we don't have players to get past Rhodes, so therefore he doesn't hold the ball up? If Drogba (extreme example used to emphasize my point) played for us til the end of the season and did not score 1 goal, i think as a team we would score more goals than we currently would. He would bring other players into the game further up the park.

Which players? We play with two DM's and the ball normally gets lumped up the field from a defender so you can rule them out from getting there in time (or doing anything useful with it if they did). We play with Cairney on RM lately and he's fairly ineffective in that role, whilst King can't make the run from LM every single time. Is Williamson or Etuhu the answer? Lowe? Judge? Name the players that can step up and benefit, rather than refer to them as a faceless mass that would just score by default.

[Speedie Dived]

Which players? We play with two DM's and the ball normally gets lumped up the field from a defender so you can rule them out from getting there in time (or doing anything useful with it if they did). We play with Cairney on RM lately and he's fairly ineffective in that role, whilst King can't make the run from LM every single time. Is Williamson or Etuhu the answer? Lowe? Judge? Name the players that can step up and benefit, rather than refer to them as a faceless mass that would just score by default.

The whole side. You move as a unit further up the field, play in the oppositions half more. Teams work on collective movement. You build off your front man.

[DE.]

[den]

I am really struggling to understand your point. You are saying that we don't have players to get past Rhodes, so therefore he doesn't hold the ball up? If Drogba (extreme example used to emphasize my point) played for us til the end of the season and did not score 1 goal, i think as a team we would score more goals than we currently would. He would bring other players into the game further up the park.

Yup. If every time you play it to the front man, the oppo's defenders come away with the ball, you aren't going to create many chances are you? Sounds like that's been happening regularly away from home.

[FGS5635]

This is the point, if JR plays alone up front the opposition play a really high line as he's no threat to run in behind. The boro game really highlighted how teams play against us. 30mins trapped deep in our half struggling to get out. Around 30mins bowyer changed to 442 and put king up top also. The threat with his pace instantly had boro defending 10-15 yards deeper. Suddenly we are playing the game in their half.

This is the reason king has looked such a threat at times this season, teams are playing so high a line there is space galore behind the full back for him to attack with his pace. This is why imo if we do partner JR with anybody and switch to 442 he has to have pace or the situation gets worse as they still play a high line and we now have 1 less in midfield to try and pass out

[Speedie Dived]

Is that your way of saying you disagree with one of the basic footballing philosophies coached throughout the history of the game?

This is the point, if JR plays alone up front the opposition play a really high line as he's no threat to run in behind. The boro game really highlighted how teams play against us. 30mins trapped deep in our half struggling to get out. Around 30mins bowyer changed to 442 and put king up top also. The threat with his pace instantly had boro defending 10-15 yards deeper. Suddenly we are playing the game in their half.

This is the reason king has looked such a threat at times this season, teams are playing so high a line there is space galore behind the full back for him to attack with his pace. This is why imo if we do partner JR with anybody and switch to 442 he has to have pace or the situation gets worse as they still play a high line and we now have 1 less in midfield to try and pass out

Exactly. If Rhodes had King's legs he would be playing in the Premier League.

[DE.]

No, it's my way I'm saying I'm done with the circular arguments in this thread. This has been done to death and it's tiresome. I think I've said enough to put my view across and I'm not going to re-explain things in slightly different words over and over again. The thread seems to be at an impasse and I don't think much else can be said at this point.

[FGS5635]

Everyone who has posted in this thread has give up at least twice, but you cant help it, you have to keep coming back

[somersetrover]

I still don't quite understand the signing of Marshall, and for a decent chunk of money, and feel that Bowyer made a mistake in signing a player very similar in style to Judge and Taylor seemingly, whilst not looking superior in quality.

We should have signed a pacier player to compete for the right wing, maybe someone like Adomah.

In fairness to Taylor he has hardly had a chance he usually only get's to come on for the last 20 minutes when we're losing. I would like to see him start more, as he get's a good ball into the box.

[LDRover]

Which players? We play with two DM's and the ball normally gets lumped up the field from a defender so you can rule them out from getting there in time (or doing anything useful with it if they did). We play with Cairney on RM lately and he's fairly ineffective in that role, whilst King can't make the run from LM every single time. Is Williamson or Etuhu the answer? Lowe? Judge? Name the players that can step up and benefit, rather than refer to them as a faceless mass that would just score by default.

In the interests of balance and following on from Stuart's earlier posts, it has to be said that this is an excellent point.

[bluefred]

im going to upset a few on here now, but, I think if rovers get a decent offer from a prem club in jan we should sell , then improve the team with the proceeds,

too many times this season have we left our selfs with no options of changing games to our benefit when needed because Rhodes is on the field.

[cn174]

im going to upset a few on here now, but, I think if rovers get a decent offer from a prem club in jan we should sell , then improve the team with the proceeds,

too many times this season have we left our selfs with no options of changing games to our benefit when needed because Rhodes is on the field.

The thing is, I dont think if we got say £8m back for him, that £8m would be going anywhere near the team, but rather back into Balaji's pocket.

[chaddyrovers]

I still don't quite understand the signing of Marshall, and for a decent chunk of money, and feel that Bowyer made a mistake in signing a player very similar in style to Judge and Taylor seemingly, whilst not looking superior in quality.

We should have signed a pacier player to compete for the right wing, maybe someone like Adomah.

Marshall, Taylor and Judge have took time to settled into the club and living in their area and moving their families aswell.

Marshall will become a good signing. he now needs to start performance. he looked good against Watford when he came on as sub.

Its alright keep saying we should have signed a pacier winger but its comes down to who was down available, wages, agents fees, transfer fees, whether the player wants to move to the area, etc

do we even have a proper scouting department

Yes we do. Bowyer brought in Scouts this summer along with Des Taylor coming in as Chief Scout. worked with Howe at Burnley as Chief Scout

im going to upset a few on here now, but, I think if rovers get a decent offer from a prem club in jan we should sell , then improve the team with the proceeds,

too many times this season have we left our selfs with no options of changing games to our benefit when needed because Rhodes is on the field.

no options??? I defo would keep Rhodes!!!

we have had Best, Judge, Marshall, Taylor, DJ as options to change games.

[roversfan99]

In fairness to Taylor he has hardly had a chance he usually only get's to come on for the last 20 minutes when we're losing. I would like to see him start more, as he get's a good ball into the box.

Yeah my point was more, with Judge and Taylor both at the club and worth a gamble on frees, why sign a very similar player with most of the budget, instead of someone a bit more direct. Taylor has looked OK.

[FGS5635]

Taylor is probably the least talented of the 3, but he is the only one that's a proper wide man really. He doesn't mess about, just tries to get a cross in.

He is prob best suited to the system we play

[T.J.Newton]

Jeez Chaddy you type with so much authority about things you no the minimum about!