[Archived] Jordan Rhodes

[onlyonejackwalker]

Brilliant analogy. That's our situation... in a buncase.

Brilliant? Cake and cherries? Ok then.

[Leonard Venkhater]

Brilliant? Cake and cherries? Ok then.

I know we are in a wasteland, but we cant all be T.S.Eliot!

[Stuart]

Brilliant? Cake and cherries? Ok then.

Have you got a better one?

I'm easily impressed as you can see.

[Rover_Shaun]

Bowyer has the answer now with Dunny/Rochina supplying JR and King...... for as long as Dunny's fitness lasts

Time will tell. I'm not holding my breath

[Blue blood]

Rhodes is a proven goalscorer in this league, some of the goals he has scored prove he is an exceptional finisher that's a fact.

The main problem with our team is that we cant get the ball to him in and around the box where he is most effective on a regular basis.

Our defence is decent at this level but our midfield play is not good enough to get the ball to him.

If you have an exceptional finisher surely the main tactic needs to be to play to his strengths and bust a gut to get the ball to him in and around

the box. It is obvious he cant hold the ball , run the channels etc he is no shearer but Bowyer needs to find a way to get the ball to him, without service he

cant score and we cant win. The problem is not rocket science Bowyer needs to concentrate on organising the team to create chances for him.

Problem is that may well need to revamp the whole team to do so. We've not one in form winger who provides good service, and creatively we're dependent upon a crock and a player with his head in the clouds. We'd ideally need at least another winger (one who can cross) and for Rochina to become more consistent (and less selfish) or Dunn to stay fit - or failing that another creative player.

Alternatively we could go with a target man for Rhodes to play off and switch to 4-4-2 but then you've got real problems in midfield - King and Cairney don't do enough defensively and Lowe not enough offensively. Again you'd have to switch round a fair chunk of the team.

In short, the problem is Rhodes isn't a great fit with the players that we have. For them to do well, the formation that does this best, doesn't really favor Rhodes. So either you shape a fair bit of the team around him and bring in players accordingly, which is risky if he goes, or you play a formation that suits more players, but limits what Rhodes does. It's a lose lose situation.

Hopefully if we get some consistency from a creative source, then maybe the first option playing to Rhodes strengths can become possible. Potentially I think that's what Marshall was brought in to do - problem is he's not looking up to it that much.

[Majiball]

The midfield isn't mobile enough to allow us to play through them rather than to the front man. The defence needs another option to pass to once they win it back and we don't possess a midfield that allows them to do so. So they'll always look to JR, they have no other options and it will continue. We've needed a maestro or a conductor for years and i still feel we need one to get the most out of JR. Until we can create an out ball that progresses through midfield nothing will change and JR will be isolated. Get one working however and the team can move up the pitch more and JR can stay exactly where he wants to be.

[Amo]

The midfield isn't mobile enough to allow us to play through them rather than to the front man. The defence needs another option to pass to once they win it back and we don't possess a midfield that allows them to do so. So they'll always look to JR, they have no other options and it will continue. We've needed a maestro or a conductor for years and i still feel we need one to get the most out of JR. Until we can create an out ball that progresses through midfield nothing will change and JR will be isolated. Get one working however and the team can move up the pitch more and JR can stay exactly where he wants to be.

But wasn't Cairney effectively playing that role? A lot of people reported him doing well in that deep-lying midfield role, stringing passes across the pitch. Now Bowyer insists on sticking him out wide when we already have four wingers on the bench.

[FGS5635]

If we can ever field our full strength team then we can maybe pass through quite well. Get cairney and evans holding. A 3 infront of them of king ruben and dunny and JR up top.

Enough good passing players there to play though midfield. Could be weak defensivley, but what the heck you cant win if you dont score

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

It's Becchio Chaddy. If you're going to keep on about him you can at least spell his name correctly.

I remember having a really good twitter debate with Glen Mullan last year about Rhodes. My argument was that we would never make a profit on him and glen's view was that he was worth double what we paid for him. I still think I'll be right on this one.

It's a shame you didn't have a bet.

[beatrix]

Maybe worth trying taylor as a winger and give him a run of games, he is a natural winger who likes to go at a full back.

Has he not provided good crosses in previous games, without giving him a run in the side we may not get the best out of him.

got to be worth a try with Rhodes short of service.

[Jimmy612]

It's Becchio Chaddy. If you're going to keep on about him you can at least spell his name correctly.

I remember having a really good twitter debate with Glen Mullan last year about Rhodes. My argument was that we would never make a profit on him and glen's view was that he was worth double what we paid for him. I still think I'll be right on this one.

And does Glenn's seat face the pitch? £16m

It's a shame we are in such a financial pickle. If someone did offer that money I'd snap their hand off. In fact if the club was in a financial position whereby any transfer fees could be invested back into the squad, I would take half of that amount.

[Majiball]

But wasn't Cairney effectively playing that role? A lot of people reported him doing well in that deep-lying midfield role, stringing passes across the pitch. Now Bowyer insists on sticking him out wide when we already have four wingers on the bench.

Trouble is he's not ours so once he leaves we're shafted, but that one role is half the battle. how do we react the instant we win possession? Do we act with intent to find space quickly and effectively? Not when I've seen us this season. But in the same vein I don't think we have the players who can adapt to that style of play. Rock n a hard place for me on this one with the squad we have.

Curiously how are our FB's playing these days? Do Kane and Spurr get in advance of the winger with frequency? They could over another crossing option.

The trouble with our wide players is simple, none of them are good enough, if they were we wouldn't be discussing this. Cairney is the only player who has shown he can consistently deliver a decent ball in, so he's stuck there now. King is a sprinter pretending to be a footballer, Judge isn't good enough, Taylor hasn't shown much and Marshall doesn't look like the best way to have spent our meager funds this summer. Also we don't have a leftie in the squad period as LW is our new LB situation. We could look to do ala arsenal and cut in and play balls into the box from the edge of it once past the full back, but again we lack the skills to do this.

For me it's simple, we need to stop looking for new ways to get these lads to play and get them back to roles that they know of by heart. So quite simply with todays news it's dead simple we play 442 home and away from now on. Rhodes with a partner has always seen him score goals, he's always played that way rather than on his own, so since he's No.1 we look after him first. CB's pick themselves sadly, although I'd look to be trying Kilgallon with HeadlessHanley. Spurr left back, Henley RB when fit and then the troublesome part, midfield. We don't have two players who are good enough at this level to play as a two, so I'd plump for 2 more defensive minded players. currently as it was Ie lowe and Williamson with the better of the two partnering the man who's injured and name I cannot remember once he's fit. On the right because Henley likes to get forward, I'd stick Cairney right now and get Henley and Kane to bomb on so he gets more space to play. On the left though i would play Dunn because he's the one midifielder we have who can really play and he's Rovers and will get the lads going. I am well aware it's far from ideal but we don't really have a squad within which a mode of playing jumps out. No matter how you shuffle the pack, we have issues, yes we have a good variety of players who can play this role and that but they don't really seem to fit together so it will always be that way. For me in that situation look after the best first and work backwards as goals win games. But to fix the situation we'll need to trade and at this point I'll leave the conversation for fear of doing a Theno!

[DE.]

If we play a 4-4-2 we'll get ripped apart in midfield, especially if Lowe and Williamson are the pairing. As two defensive mids they'll drop too far back and offer nothing offensively. Teams will work out that we literally have no attacking option other than the flanks and shut us down with ease.

[Jimmy612]

If we play a 4-4-2 we'll get ripped apart in midfield, especially if Lowe and Williamson are the pairing. As two defensive mids they'll drop too far back and offer nothing offensively. Teams will work out that we literally have no attacking option other than the flanks and shut us down with ease.

Correct.

Cairney must play in the middle. He's our best player by some margin. Comfortable on the ball and just ticks the midfield over nicely. Our two best performances have included Dunn in the advanced role and Cairney sat in with Lowe. The big problem I think we have is the wingers. Do we have a good one between them? King is, as Maj says a sprinter, I've been saying since day one that he has absolutely no football brain.

Taylor is a hard-worker and a fiery character (something i generally appreciate), but all round he's a second rate player.

Has Judge got a position? AM, RW? Honestly don't know what it is.

Marshall. Well, I'm perplexed by this guy. He hasn't shown anything to suggest he's any good. If it is a confidence issue, which has been alluded to, then it's up to Bowyer to get the best out of him - if he can't, then sadly it looks like a waste of money.

Now, GB has brought in three of those players himself. Fair enough on the cheap, but all the same he carries the can if they aren't suitable.

For me, our only hope is that we can keep Dunny fit and if not, hope Rochina has matured into a better player. He's certainly stockier and looks fitter but his decision making leaves a lot to be desired.

As much as I've criticised Rhodes (fairly IMO), I still appreciate his talent and believe that the best way to get him scoring is through that No.10 role. I don't think 4-4-2 is the best option.

People might say 'Burnley play that' which is all well and good but has anyone actually studied Burnley's shape without the ball? I can only assume that one of Ings or Vokes (my guess is Ings), drops in to play the number 10 role. Now he can do that because he's hard working, has a good engine, and most importantly has Vokes up top to hold it up and wait for Ings, Arfield etc to get up alongside.

This won't work for Rovers IMO because Rhodes can't play that role, even with this 6ft 4 lad from Cardiff playing No.9.

Interesting to see what Bowyer does against Leeds. I can't see him playing 4-4-2.

[DE.]

I've not studied Burnley properly but I'd guess they play more of a 4-1-4-1 formation, with one of the strikers dropping off when the team aren't in possession or are building an attack and need an outlet in the upper midfield area. We could certainly adapt to this type of style using Rochina or Dunn, but it's dependant on so many other factors. Regardless of the formation played, it's going to fail if the players aren't good enough to pull it off and I question whether at the moment we have the talent to play as Burnley do.

With Cairney and Evans in the centre, Rochina/Dunn playing second striker and Rhodes up front we have a very good core. Unfortunately the wingers we have just aren't up to scratch - especially as they have no help from our full-backs - and if we try to play narrow the whole time we will again get found out quickly.

[Majiball]

So what will you do when/if Cairney departs in Jan?

[DE.]

Guess we'll have to rely on golden boy Jason Lowe.

Or we can play 4-4-2 and get destroyed.

[Amo]

Or we can play 4-4-2 and get destroyed.

Did alright at the start of last season with Rhodes & Gomes up front.

Just take the 'you score 3, we'll score 4' approach.

[roversfan99]

Gomes was playing in a withdrawn role as a number 10 and did so very intelligently. That is why.

[DE.]

Did alright at the start of last season with Rhodes & Gomes up front.

Just take the 'you score 3, we'll score 4' approach.

That was a 4-1-4-1 wasn't it? Gomes was playing where Ruben or Dunn would play now if we used that formation.

Regardless of that by the time Kean left we were on the slide, and I think most of us agree that run was even luckier than Burney's current run of form.

[Blue blood]

Trouble is he's not ours so once he leaves we're shafted, but that one role is half the battle. how do we react the instant we win possession? Do we act with intent to find space quickly and effectively? Not when I've seen us this season. But in the same vein I don't think we have the players who can adapt to that style of play. Rock n a hard place for me on this one with the squad we have.

Curiously how are our FB's playing these days? Do Kane and Spurr get in advance of the winger with frequency? They could over another crossing option.

The trouble with our wide players is simple, none of them are good enough, if they were we wouldn't be discussing this. Cairney is the only player who has shown he can consistently deliver a decent ball in, so he's stuck there now. King is a sprinter pretending to be a footballer, Judge isn't good enough, Taylor hasn't shown much and Marshall doesn't look like the best way to have spent our meager funds this summer. Also we don't have a leftie in the squad period as LW is our new LB situation. We could look to do ala arsenal and cut in and play balls into the box from the edge of it once past the full back, but again we lack the skills to do this.

For me it's simple, we need to stop looking for new ways to get these lads to play and get them back to roles that they know of by heart. So quite simply with todays news it's dead simple we play 442 home and away from now on. Rhodes with a partner has always seen him score goals, he's always played that way rather than on his own, so since he's No.1 we look after him first. CB's pick themselves sadly, although I'd look to be trying Kilgallon with HeadlessHanley. Spurr left back, Henley RB when fit and then the troublesome part, midfield. We don't have two players who are good enough at this level to play as a two, so I'd plump for 2 more defensive minded players. currently as it was Ie lowe and Williamson with the better of the two partnering the man who's injured and name I cannot remember once he's fit. On the right because Henley likes to get forward, I'd stick Cairney right now and get Henley and Kane to bomb on so he gets more space to play. On the left though i would play Dunn because he's the one midifielder we have who can really play and he's Rovers and will get the lads going. I am well aware it's far from ideal but we don't really have a squad within which a mode of playing jumps out. No matter how you shuffle the pack, we have issues, yes we have a good variety of players who can play this role and that but they don't really seem to fit together so it will always be that way. For me in that situation look after the best first and work backwards as goals win games. But to fix the situation we'll need to trade and at this point I'll leave the conversation for fear of doing a Theno!

Maj think we're saying the same thing - get the players playing in a formation that suits them. But the bit I've highlighted totally sums up the problem - we've got pieces from different jigsaws that whichever way you put it, totally don't fit together.

Going about the same idea of you as getting the formation that suits the players, I really think the 4-2-3-1 formation as we see the best out of more of the team - King, Lowe, Dunn or Rochina, but the fact that all these situations have big flaws in shows what a horribly unbalanced squad we have and a woeful transfer policy we've had for the past few years.

Personally 4-4-2 - Dunn hasn't the legs to do that, and would leave the left side of the field ridiculously exposed. I'd also worry lots about the lack of pace. Agree with you that the wide players situation is the biggest issue (although there are many) and am not sure that I should be encouraged that Bowyer brought for that position, or discouraged that his solution to the identified problem is so inadequate.

But really good to hear your analysis of how best to solve the Rhodes-formation dilemma.

[ABBEY]

HES @#/? !!!

HATERS GONNA HATE!!

[FGS5635]

TBF he isnt the lone striker tonight

[Tom]

And to be fair him scoring doesn't negate the fact he's been poor the last couple before it

Hopefully he and DJ can build an understanding

[ABBEY]

get the ball to him he scores ...its a simple idea . BUT it works.