[Archived] Jordan Rhodes

[FGS5635]

But it does work, science has shown that mood emotions can influence physical performance. The issue now is sports science is plit into disciplines, biomechanices, psychology and physiology. Biomechanics isn't of interest to me but the others are. Psychology is the human mind nothing more, physiology the human body excluding the mind. Can mind influence body? Yes and it's been proven. So the two must be considered together. It's a very new concept one we are trialing at LJMU and after some teething issues well, we're all rather positive about it.

My post on it being crazy was more aimed at the morphed combination of my bad spelling, but Im sure you know that.

Science is huge in sports, and without question has massive results. I'd even say most teams, rovers included dont use it enough. If I was a rich owner of a club, the 1st thing I'd do is hire a Dave Brailsford type person or even dave himself to micro manage the football club. The science of marginal gains is something every sports /team/person should be doing in my opinion. The documentarys they did on Sky Cycling where mind blowing and I cant understand why anyone wouldnt adopt a similar approach if they really wanted to be the best player/team they could be.

[Stuart]

The Rhodes argument is a moot one

Truest thing said on the subject.

[FGS5635]

The Rhodes argument is a moot one and one that people enjoy debating for the sake of it. Rhodes isn't a target man who's going to harry defences, run the channels, and play with his back to goal, at least not consistently. If he was any of those things and still scoring 20+ goals a season, he certainly wouldn't be here of all places. He's a proven goalscorer, poacher, fox in the box, and other clichés too numerous to mention. Give him the service and 99.9% of the time he'll hit the back of the net. You either buy players to fit your system or you fit your system around your players. Is it asking too much to build the team around its star striker and play to his strengths? Other teams do it.

Why does he have to be a target man? becasue he needs to improve holding it up he sudenly has to be 7 foot 2 and built like a giant. Its insane and narrow minded. Is it asking to much for jordan to improve a bit rather than signing x amount of new players at a cost of Y to maybe provide some 'Super system' thats fits the needs of 1 player. There isnt a system out there that fits jordan unless he improves his all round game. He either improves or we accept his limitations and know he'll score his share of goals on the few chances we create.

As a fan I dont accept it and I want him to improve. Mainly because I think he can.

[FGS5635]

No matter which side of this debate you sit, just watch him in the next game. Ignore anything passed into him head high, but look at balls into his chest and feet and answer honestly the following question. Has he done all he can there to win / retain possesion for us?

When I ask myself that I usually answer no and thats the issue for me

[Stuart]

No matter which side of this debate you sit, just watch him in the next game. Ignore anything passed into him head high, but look at balls into his chest and feet and answer honestly the following question. Has he done all he can there to win / retain possesion for us?

When I ask myself that I usually answer no and thats the issue for me

You really don't get it do you.

Play the ball to Rhodes how he wants it, let him play off the shoulder of the defender, and he will score. Don't fire it up to him and hope it sticks, that's not his game, and we shouldn't want it to be.

We have a formula that works and there are some people seem hell bent on trying to play in a different way, a way which in all likelihood will means he scores less frequently? Why?

If we want to play that kind of football then sell Rhodes and bring Kazim-Richards back.

Otherwise, a team should play to it's strengths.

[roversfan99]

The debate usually restarts after a game, when people who have attended have commented that, usually if he hasn't scored, he hasn't done nearly enough during the match. No one tends to say he is a poor player, obviously he is our key asset, but sometimes that criticism is fair.

People then respond to that using generic arguments eg we have to accept he is simply a goalscorer and people should stop witch hunting him bla bla bla, when in fact all people are saying is that he played poorly, with good reason at times.

[FGS5635]

You really don't get it do you.

Play the ball to Rhodes how he wants it, let him play off the shoulder of the defender, and he will score. Don't fire it up to him and hope it sticks, that's not his game, and we shouldn't want it to be.

We have a formula that works and there are some people seem hell bent on trying to play in a different way, a way which in all likelihood will means he scores less frequently? Why?

If we want to play that kind of football then sell Rhodes and bring Kazim-Richards back.

Otherwise, a team should play to it's strengths.

This is a 90min game of football and its impossible to do it one way for 90mins. The opposition arent retarded enough to let it happen that way.

I'd even say this is how we do play now. Teams even dare us/want us to play this way as they play a high back 4 against us. But it doesnt really work as jordan doesnt have the pace to run in behind

[Amo]

Why does he have to be a target man? becasue he needs to improve holding it up he sudenly has to be 7 foot 2 and built like a giant. Its insane and narrow minded. Is it asking to much for jordan to improve a bit rather than signing x amount of new players at a cost of Y to maybe provide some 'Super system' thats fits the needs of 1 player. There isnt a system out there that fits jordan unless he improves his all round game. He either improves or we accept his limitations and know he'll score his share of goals on the few chances we create.

As a fan I dont accept it and I want him to improve. Mainly because I think he can.

Again, I don't think anyone has disputed that there are aspects of Rhodes' game that could improve. Thing is, you have to concede that for practically every player in the squad. King's final ball needs work, Lowe doesn't dominate games like he should, and so on and so forth. Rhodes, however, is the one player Rovers have who does what he's paid to do on a regular basis. It's mind-boggingly that he of all people is the one most fans here find themselves quibbling over.

[K-Hod]

Again, I don't think anyone has disputed that there are aspects of Rhodes' game that could improve. Thing is, you have to concede that for practically every player in the squad. King's final ball needs work, Lowe doesn't dominate games like he should, and so on and so forth. Rhodes, however, is the one player Rovers have who does what he's paid to do on a regular basis. It's mind-boggingly that he of all people is the one most fans here find themselves quibbling over.

Indeed. Sure Ronaldo and Messi could improve their tackling.....

[FGS5635]

Again, I don't think anyone has disputed that there are aspects of Rhodes' game that could improve. Thing is, you have to concede that for practically every player in the squad. King's final ball needs work, Lowe doesn't dominate games like he should, and so on and so forth. Rhodes, however, is the one player Rovers have who does what he's paid to do on a regular basis. It's mind-boggingly that he of all people is the one most fans here find themselves quibbling over.

Without a doubt, infact King frsutrates me more than any other player, but this is a rhodes thread. This is a rovers site and the # of subjects for threads/discussions inst that wide. Its not really much of a shock to think our record signing / best player is discussed more than any other is it?

[OJRovers]

Again, I don't think anyone has disputed that there are aspects of Rhodes' game that could improve. Thing is, you have to concede that for practically every player in the squad. King's final ball needs work, Lowe doesn't dominate games like he should, and so on and so forth. Rhodes, however, is the one player Rovers have who does what he's paid to do on a regular basis. It's mind-boggingly that he of all people is the one most fans here find themselves quibbling over.

Agreed, there isn't a player at Rovers without areas they could improve. If they were perfect, they'd be in the premier league.

The agrument should be about Bowyer's selections. He hasn't had much choice but to play Rhodes with a lack of alternatives in the squad. But he has tried to do something about that by bringing in the guy from Cardiff, so let's see how he is used.

[Bucksrover]

As was shown against Millwall - we don't need our system to work in every move for 90 minutes. The accuracy of Rhodes finishing means that we only need to create him 2 or 3 good chances and he will put one of them away.

I think we are very lucky to have him.

[K-Hod]

Without a doubt, infact King frsutrates me more than any other player, but this is a rhodes thread. This is a rovers site and the # of subjects for threads/discussions inst that wide. Its not really much of a shock to think our record signing / best player is CRITICISED discussed more than any other is it?

Fixed it for you.

[roversfan99]

Again, I don't think anyone has disputed that there are aspects of Rhodes' game that could improve. Thing is, you have to concede that for practically every player in the squad. King's final ball needs work, Lowe doesn't dominate games like he should, and so on and so forth. Rhodes, however, is the one player Rovers have who does what he's paid to do on a regular basis. It's mind-boggingly that he of all people is the one most fans here find themselves quibbling over.

Don't understand this at all. Just because he is our main player doesn't mean he is exempt from criticism. He has at times been poor this season, most people at our games will admit that, yet no one has doubted his goalscoring record or finishing.

The main reason that the arguments go round and round is that whenever someone constructively criticises him or suggests where he could improve, instantly flocks of people come out and refuse to even consider the point made.

[FGS5635]

Fixed it for you.

Even with the change its still valid and no shock is it?

[K-Hod]

Even with the change its still valid and no shock is it?

When he's scored miles more than the rest of our team, it kind of is yeah.

The team has a lot of problems, but the shortcomings in JR's all round game are far from the issue.

[Stuart]

Let me try it a different way.

If Rhodes ironed out those 'weakness' and became the complete centre forward (and ignoring the fact that he would then no longer be playing for Rovers)...

Would we have a strong enough squad to challenge for promotion?

Be careful now, because if your answer is NOT a resounding YES then you are agreeing with the point that I have been making all along.

[FGS5635]

Let me try it a different way.

If Rhodes ironed out those 'weakness' and became the complete centre forward (and ignoring the fact that he would then no longer be playing for Rovers)...

Would we have a strong enough squad to challenge for promotion?

Be careful now, because if your answer is NOT a resounding YES then you are agreeing with the point that I have been making all along.

So we are suggesting he plays at 80% just so nobody in the PL buys him?

When he's scored miles more than the rest of our team, it kind of is yeah.

The team has a lot of problems, but the shortcomings in JR's all round game are far from the issue.

So we ignore his shortcomings and dont ever discuss them? As for the rest of the teams problems, most if not all do get discussed and get discussed alot.

[den]

So we ignore his shortcomings and dont ever discuss them?

Yep.

Pathetic really.

[Amo]

Don't understand this at all. Just because he is our main player doesn't mean he is exempt from criticism.

Strawman.

It's about the unwarranted Rhodes-bashing that has become in vogue on this forum. People like Den saying the team isn't gelling and isn't any stronger than it was last year, BECAUSE of him (he'll deny it, of course). That's the kind of nonsense I'm calling out.

[roversfan99]

Can't say I've seen that, maybe I have seen people say that because of Rhodes' lack of hold up play and use of the ball, we struggle to keep the ball up the pitch as our midfielders can't support him in time as he has already lost the ball, but we are much better with him and most people recognise him.

If it is just one poster, then why are you making the point in general and not specifically to him? It is not unwarranted or bashing in the main, it is constructive criticism following poor performances that he has put in. On Saturday he was very good and I and many others mentioned that on the forum following the game. Mainly his hold up impressed me.

[Amo]

Can't say I've seen that, maybe I have seen people say that because of Rhodes' lack of hold up play and use of the ball, we struggle to keep the ball up the pitch as our midfielders can't support him in time as he has already lost the ball, but we are much better with him and most people recognise him.

If it is just one poster, then why are you making the point in general and not specifically to him? It is not unwarranted or bashing in the main, it is constructive criticism following poor performances that he has put in. On Saturday he was very good and I and many others mentioned that on the forum following the game. Mainly his hold up impressed me.

Because, sadly, Den is not alone. There's a group of posters who think Rhodes should carry the can for the team's shortcomings.

[FGS5635]

Strawman.

It's about the unwarranted Rhodes-bashing that has become in vogue on this forum. People like Den saying the team isn't gelling and isn't any stronger than it was last year, BECAUSE of him (he'll deny it, of course). That's the kind of nonsense I'm calling out.

I dont know how to say this without it sounding harsh (it isnt meant be sound harsh)

If you just watch highlights on tele you will think its unwarranted. If you watch him for 90mins every week you may change your mind

[Majiball]

My post on it being crazy was more aimed at the morphed combination of my bad spelling, but Im sure you know that.

Science is huge in sports, and without question has massive results. I'd even say most teams, rovers included dont use it enough. If I was a rich owner of a club, the 1st thing I'd do is hire a Dave Brailsford type person or even dave himself to micro manage the football club. The science of marginal gains is something every sports /team/person should be doing in my opinion. The documentarys they did on Sky Cycling where mind blowing and I cant understand why anyone wouldnt adopt a similar approach if they really wanted to be the best player/team they could be.

Unfortunately despite science and football being together and knowing that both would benefit from more unity, there are too many major obstacles in the way. You'll notice that the best sports scientists don't actually work in football, even those that do don't stay long IE Bangsbo for example.

On the Rhodes debate I would just like to say this:

It's far better than constantly reading and debating about Sam on the MB.

[DE.]

Bloody good manager was Allardyce.