[Archived] Jordan Rhodes

[Shabani]

Bowyer's managerial skills are the problems

We have a fantastic goalscorer and Bowyer is clueless on how to build a team to maximize Rhodes's strengths

Like the posters above state, we're going to miss him when he's gone

Gestede is good for 10 a year, our centre midfielders contribute little going forward and our wingers maybe a goal every now and then

[thenodrog]

Bowyer doesn't help by playing Rhodes up top and Gestede behind him. Stupid 4-4-2 it is which ill suits the midfielders that we have. Saying that Gestede wins lots of flick ons but Rhodes has zero pace and cannot benefit. Obvious to me that Gestede should be up top holding up the ball for Rhodes to feed off / run on to.

Still doesn't cover up the plain fact that Rhodes is a bone idle lightweight. I shouldn't be surprised to see his team mates start to show resentment soon.

[mattjansen]

How on earth someone can expect Rhodes to chase and hussle down defenders is beyond me, work for the team yes but chase balls hoofed up the field has never been his game. He hasnt been up to standard last games and maybe that's a mix off bad service and bad form, still people sounds like we should give away for free. Play to his strengths instead

[Blue blood]

  On 12/03/2014 at 23:01, Stuart said:

I honestly don't think Bowyer knows how to get the best our of him. He thrived alongside and just ahead of Kazim-Richards, with David Jones in a proper defensive midfield role. The ball stuck to him like glue, meaning we played more of the game in the final third, whereas now, because Bowyer likes to play with 6 defenders, we concede the midfield battle and spend much of our time in our own half.

Bowyer has brought in his own personnel and the service to Rhodes has all but dried up. We need the match to be played further up the pitch to get the best out of Rhodes, not ping it up to him and hope he can retain possession. It's just not his game.

We either need to replace Bowyer or drop Rhodes and see how long he lasts with his best striker on the bench - while the team continue to play @#/? football but even less clinical in front of goal.

Great post. Rhodes is a certain type of player, not an all rounder - as I would add are many of our squad. You need to play to the strengths of these players, or play players who have the strengths that match with the tactics. Bowyer does neither.

  On 13/03/2014 at 23:10, thenodrog said:

Bowyer doesn't help by playing Rhodes up top and Gestede behind him. Stupid 4-4-2 it is which ill suits the midfielders that we have. Saying that Gestede wins lots of flick ons but Rhodes has zero pace and cannot benefit. Obvious to me that Gestede should be up top holding up the ball for Rhodes to feed off / run on to.

Still doesn't cover up the plain fact that Rhodes is a bone idle lightweight. I shouldn't be surprised to see his team mates start to show resentment soon.

Now I think your first point is spot on, but your second bang out of order. Not seen masses of games, but whenever I've seen, watched or listened to the games I don't think it can be said that Rhodes is disinterested/lazy. One paced, yes. Weak, definitely. But I don't think you can accuse him of lack of trying.

Didn't see Bournemouth game so can't comment on that, but I did go to Burnley where he worked his socks off. He's not that great at working hard, but he does put in the effort. I think much more criticism should come to the man who's asking him to play that role. Either you play to Rhodes strengths, or you drop him, but asking him to do the grafter up front is daft. (Agree thought that having Gestede up front to do that would be a massive step in the right direction.) Bowyer may as well ask Lowe to be our play-maker midfielder, or King a workhorse wide midfielder. They're not those kind of players, and Rhodes is not the lone man up front grafter.

But there is a massive difference between being poor at something and not putting in the effort.

[Tom]

How on earth is that not his game? That's a poor excuse even the worst of footballers is capable of closing down a player or chasing a ball!

[Blue blood]

  On 14/03/2014 at 14:21, Tom M said:

How on earth is that not his game? That's a poor excuse even the worst of footballers is capable of closing down a player or chasing a ball!

I'm more talking about the constant battling away up front, and being a lone and very isolated striker. Obviously, all players have to work for the team, but some take on more of the graft than others (for example Tugay and Savage - Savage did most of the grafting.) And players like McCarthy (a much better player in his prime) didn't exactly bust a gut, but that was ok, given the team around him, the formation and what he brought.

[Tom]

I was referring to the post above that said its unfair to expect him to chase balls

[Blue blood]

  On 14/03/2014 at 14:26, Tom M said:

I was referring to the post above that said its unfair to expect him to chase balls

apologies - see now what you mean.

[Majiball]

See Kiddies the above is how adults do it, no name calling, civilized outcome and everyone's happy and the board a better place.

[yoda]

  On 14/03/2014 at 14:39, Majiball said:

See Kiddies the above is how adults do it, no name calling, civilized outcome and everyone's happy and the board a better place.

That is just inviting trouble

[thenodrog]

  On 14/03/2014 at 14:16, mattjansen said:

How on earth someone can expect Rhodes to chase and hussle down defenders is beyond me, work for the team yes but chase balls hoofed up the field has never been his game. He hasnt been up to standard last games and maybe that's a mix off bad service and bad form, still people sounds like we should give away for free. Play to his strengths instead

Might be beyond you Matt but it's certainly not beyond the likes of Ferguson, Rodgers, Mourhino, Guardiola etc etc. They don't carry passengers in their teams do they? Still what do they know?

Just as an aside what is wrong with expecting a footballer on 40k pw to actually break sweat? I wouldn't expect it I'd demand it!

  On 14/03/2014 at 14:20, Blue blood said:

Great post. Rhodes is a certain type of player, not an all rounder - as I would add are many of our squad. You need to play to the strengths of these players, or play players who have the strengths that match with the tactics. Bowyer does neither.

Now I think your first point is spot on, but your second bang out of order. Not seen masses of games, but whenever I've seen, watched or listened to the games I don't think it can be said that Rhodes is disinterested/lazy. One paced, yes. Weak, definitely. But I don't think you can accuse him of lack of trying.

Didn't see Bournemouth game so can't comment on that, but I did go to Burnley where he worked his socks off. He's not that great at working hard, but he does put in the effort. I think much more criticism should come to the man who's asking him to play that role. Either you play to Rhodes strengths, or you drop him, but asking him to do the grafter up front is daft. (Agree thought that having Gestede up front to do that would be a massive step in the right direction.) Bowyer may as well ask Lowe to be our play-maker midfielder, or King a workhorse wide midfielder. They're not those kind of players, and Rhodes is not the lone man up front grafter.

But there is a massive difference between being poor at something and not putting in the effort.

You need to see more games then. Trust me there's more work in a dole queue than in JR at the moment. Rhodes did indeed put a decent shift in v Burnley..... for 45 minutes! 2nd half he was plodding around flat footed again and ducking out of the physical stuff for all his worth.

Anyway answer me this .... if JR has suspect stamina as you suggest then wtf does Bowyer persist in dragging off Gestede and leaving Rhodes on?

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

I slightly see what mattjansen is getting at. Even when playing 2 up front, strikers are outnumbered 5 to 2 as modern keepers are comfortable passing it short as well. Personally I see little point in strikers wasting their energy fruitlessly charging around trying to win the ball back off defenders. Its something fans seem to love but it never actually achieves anything. I prefer them to do the bare minimum jogging and defending the space, simply stopping defenders marching out comfortably with the ball. As far as the rest of its concerned, don't bother and lets win it back in midfield.

And as for running on to hopeful, punted balls, that never works either. Almost all modern defenders have pace. If you're gonna play long-ball, actually aim it and get a bit of loop so Gestede can win the header. Zipping flattish, woeful through-balls in the general direction of our strikers gives them nothing to work with. And chasing after this type of pass is another source of pointless energy-sapping, although again fans seem to get worked up when Rhodes doesn't really bother.

[thenodrog]

  On 14/03/2014 at 18:06, Steve Kean's Hypnotoad said:

I slightly see what mattjansen is getting at. Even when playing 2 up front, strikers are outnumbered 5 to 2 as modern keepers are comfortable passing it short as well. Personally I see little point in strikers wasting their energy fruitlessly charging around trying to win the ball back off defenders. Its something fans seem to love but it never actually achieves anything. I prefer them to do the bare minimum jogging and defending the space, simply stopping defenders marching out comfortably with the ball. As far as the rest of its concerned, don't bother and lets win it back in midfield.

And as for running on to hopeful, punted balls, that never works either. Almost all modern defenders have pace. If you're gonna play long-ball, actually aim it and get a bit of loop so Gestede can win the header. Zipping flattish, woeful through-balls in the general direction of our strikers gives them nothing to work with. And chasing after this type of pass is another source of pointless energy-sapping, although again fans seem to get worked up when Rhodes doesn't really bother.

How about trying to actually WIN the ball and not just win it back? JR appears to me to have given up on that too.

Sorry but I won't ever tolerate a lack of effort and desire in a footballer, and especially not in a striker. Determination and a strong will to win is a necessary requirement for a goal scorer.

[mattjansen]

  On 14/03/2014 at 18:01, thenodrog said:

Might be beyond you Matt but it's certainly not beyond the likes of Ferguson, Rodgers, Mourhino, Guardiola etc etc. They don't carry passengers in their teams do they? Still what do they know?

Just as an aside what is wrong with expecting a footballer on 40k pw to actually break sweat? I wouldn't expect it I'd demand it!

That is not what i meant at all, working hard is always expected. All i said was that that if you want a Dickov you called the wrong number

[yoda's brother]

  On 14/03/2014 at 21:34, mattjansen said:

That is not what i meant at all, working hard is always expected. All i said was that that if you want a Dickov you called the wrong number

now then mattj no need for that ha ha

[Blue blood]

  On 14/03/2014 at 18:01, thenodrog said:

You need to see more games then. Trust me there's more work in a dole queue than in JR at the moment. Rhodes did indeed put a decent shift in v Burnley..... for 45 minutes! 2nd half he was plodding around flat footed again and ducking out of the physical stuff for all his worth.

Anyway answer me this .... if JR has suspect stamina as you suggest then wtf does Bowyer persist in dragging off Gestede and leaving Rhodes on?

Seen and heard a fair few games over the last few seasons - enough to form a valid opinion. Think you're overestimating his physical prowess and underestimating his effort.

As for your question - I can't answer it as it's inexplicable. Either Gestede has issues fitness/injury wise that no-one is aware of or Bowyer is constantly getting it tactically wrong. I've no idea why Gestede goes off and Rhodes stays on, especially as the amount of long balls is much more suited to Gestede's game than Rhodes'.

[Amo]

  On 14/03/2014 at 18:28, thenodrog said:

How about trying to actually WIN the ball and not just win it back? JR appears to me to have given up on that too.

Sorry but I won't ever tolerate a lack of effort and desire in a footballer, and especially not in a striker. Determination and a strong will to win is a necessary requirement for a goal scorer.

One word: Yakubu.

[roverandout]

I think we will find out about rhodes' importance next season when he isn't here, when we are struggling for goals, the amount of times this season he has bailed rovers out!!

[Mike E]

  On 15/03/2014 at 12:27, roverandout said:

I think we will find out about rhodes' importance next season when he isn't here, when we are struggling for goals, the amount of times this season he has bailed rovers out!!

While I understand the point you're making, he's not as important as the team.

Say JR gets 20 goals. Wouldn't it be better to have Gestede get 10 and each winger get 10 from his knock-downs?

JR is important to us NOW. But we can go on without him too. I don't fear losing him.

[Majiball]

I do, JR is without doubt our best outfield player. We've lost enough quality, we don't want to lose more.

[Tom]

  On 15/03/2014 at 12:07, Amarillo said:

One word: Yakubu.

Yak was a hard worker the majority of the time, in games he didn't put it in he was useless

[thenodrog]

  On 15/03/2014 at 12:58, Majiball said:

I do, JR is without doubt our best outfield player. We've lost enough quality, we don't want to lose more.

if that is the case then we are well and truly cooked and i know nowt about the game. I can't stand passengers in a team.

BTW.... Your opinion reminds me of the reporter who asked John Lennon if he thought Ringo Starr was the best drummer in the world. Lennon replied by saying 'he isn't even the best drummer in the Beatles'!

[Leonard Venkhater]

  On 15/03/2014 at 13:45, thenodrog said:

if that is the case then we are well and truly cooked and i know nowt about the game. I can't stand passengers in a team.

BTW.... Your opinion reminds me of the reporter who asked John Lennon if he thought Ringo Starr was the best drummer in the world. Lennon replied by saying 'he isn't even the best drummer in the Beatles'!

Haha. Good old John. He should have been our director of communications. "Rovers are more popular than Jesus"

[Majiball]

  On 15/03/2014 at 13:45, thenodrog said:

if that is the case then we are well and truly cooked and i know nowt about the game. I can't stand passengers in a team.

BTW.... Your opinion reminds me of the reporter who asked John Lennon if he thought Ringo Starr was the best drummer in the world. Lennon replied by saying 'he isn't even the best drummer in the Beatles'!

Thankfully it's not about your personal preferences.

If I had been born then, perhaps that comment might have some relevance in my life. Otherwise it's just repetition of the same comment as the first sentence in a differing context, rather like your stuck in your ways.

Here's some food for thought. We all said JR needed to do more etc etc, he needed a partner and what happened? Was that his biggest non scoring streak ever? Perhaps it's not been the best idea given the results since. So rather than doing a 'Venky' and continually flogging a clearly dead horse, perhaps it's time to revert back and focus on those lost strengths. T'would be rather silly to keep harping on about improving weaknesses etc when doing so appears to have very detrimental to his strengths.

(Venky definition: to purposely turn something strong into something weak out of foolishness or stubbornness)

[Tom]

Captain? Bizarre