[Archived] England Decline Must End

[Leonard Venkhater]

I agree with that point. He has never come across as someone who was worthy of being England captain. I am glad he has gone.

He was always too slow anyway.

England captain..OMG!

I heard his wife was complaining because she came home one day to find all her white pillowcases had eye holes in them!

[Andy]

Ha! Well I stopped really caring years ago. Hell, I am starting to have the same apathy towards the England football team as I to for the Royal family!

Unlike my Irish in laws, my local team is infinitely more important to me than the national team.

Would I rather England win the world cup or Rovers win promotion?-No contest...Would I rather England win the world cup or Rovers beat Burnley?...Sorry, same again!

Hey, we worried about Keith Andrews, but did you know that Carlton Palmer has 18 England caps?

You would honestly rather see Rovers win one game, against a poor local rival than see England win the WC...?!

[Amo]

You would honestly rather see Rovers win one game, against a poor local rival than see England win the WC...?!

He's not alone. I couldn't give a fook about the national side, tbqh.

[K-Hod]

I'm also very much club before country...

[thenodrog]

Cantona described Deschamps as the water carrier. Djorkaeff was a fantastic footballer who was wasted on that French team due to the peerless Zidane.

Sorry my mistake .... Slip of the tongue keyboard I stand corrected speedie.

.

He's not alone. I couldn't give a fook about the national side, tbqh.

I'm also very much club before country...

I guess you just needed to be there in '66.

[K-Hod]

Sorry my mistake .... Slip of the tongue keyboard I stand corrected speedie.

.

I guess you just needed to be there in '66.

18 years prior to my arrival sadly!!

[thenodrog]

18 years prior to my arrival sadly!!

Sadly? Must say I'd rather be your age and read about WC 66 in a book K-Hod.

[Andy]

I think apathy towards the national team is a shame.

I can understand it I suppose, but I just can't NOT follow England at every tournament with the misguided hope that we might just do something this time around.

Rovers winning the Prem in 95 was, for me, better than our country winning the WC, but I would never put us winning a single Championship game again some local rival over England winning a major trophy.

[K-Hod]

I think apathy towards the national team is a shame.

I can understand it I suppose, but I just can't NOT follow England at every tournament with the misguided hope that we might just do something this time around.

Rovers winning the Prem in 95 was, for me, better than our country winning the WC, but I would never put us winning a single Championship game again some local rival over England winning a major trophy.

I'm exactly the same. I want England to do well, it's just I don't feel the same way about England as I do Rovers sadly.

I think a lot of people have a very cynical view when it comes to the national team, and I think much of it stems from dislike of players at club level tbh.

[Veevs]

The opposite for me. Every time. I'd take Burnley beating Rovers if it meant England winning something.

Cantona described Deschamps as the water carrier. Djorkaeff was a fantastic footballer who was wasted on that French team due to the peerless Zidane.

To the points regarding England I'd like to add these;

- Coaching. There aren't enough qualified coaches training young kids. They get taught bad habits at a young age, even at the pro clubs u8 academies.

- Pitches. How can you develop a fluid passing style of fooball when most players consistently play on awful pitches? I keep being told that they are getting better. but rain and local authority budget cuts don't help.

I hate to shoot you down on this one.. but are some of the best players in the world from Brazil.. since when do they have great coaching and wonderful pitches, these kids learn on the streets.

[Baz]

Limiting overseas players will not help make the England team better in any way. 200 English players playing regularly in what is effectively one of the worlds top leagues is easily enough to select 11 starters and half a dozen subs from.

The big problems with English football currently are....

a. Poor attitudes. Playing for England used to be the pinnacle of any players ambition, now it's just a chore necessary to suit ones sponsor and earn another 0 on the pay cheque. Any body who doesn't respect his country or his team mates or himself enough to put in a shift for the national team should be discarded. It would send out a styrong message to the rest of the squad. Prime example was the physical shape Rooney turned up in in the WC in SA. He'd have been on the first plane home if I had been manager but then again I don't have to contend with intense pressure from sponsors / advertisers etc delivered via some gin swilling buffoon from the FA . I have also to question the damage to the all round commitment of others once the bad example has been set. Lampard and Gerrard I feel have 'gone through the motions' many times whilst wearing the 3 lions. Compare this to the Germans who gave us a spanking. They had discarded the old guard and presented a vibrant and energetic team of young hungry players with thye emphasis on the word 'team'.

b. Lack of natural talent. The current squad has a power train through the middle which is simply second rate. Making the Premier league 100% English will do nothing toward that. Hart is suspect, players like Jagielka, Cahill are most definitely less than adequate and if Shawcross has an England cap then I despair. In the middle hopefully the likes of Jones and Wilshire may provide a breath of fresh air cos the old guard of Lampard, Barry, Gerrard and Carrick are over the hill whilst up front Rooney is on a definite decline whilst Wellbeck would not be even in the frame if he wore a shirt of a team out of the big 6. A willing runner is the best compliment that I can direct toward him.

c. A manager strong enough to do his own thing and not be influenced by distractions provided by press / media, sponsors, FA big wigs who know FA. Does one exist? I don't know but if one does and he manages to blag the interview it wont be long before he'll have more knives in his back than enough.

d. Unreasonable public expectation fuelled by said press and media. We are a quarter final nation at best and the sooner that is accepted by all the better..

Agree with most of this. Id add though i dont think that our players and managers are tactically aware enough at international level. Against good teams we dont seem to have a plan to unlock them.

Plus we have a massive big-club problem, where we go into tournaments with bench-warmers from the big-clubs in our starting 11. That comes from lazy management, and easy media-friendly decisions (Heskey at L'pool couldnt get dropped, yet when he moved on to play regular 1st team football, was never picked again). I remember Robson picking Waddle n Beardsley from the old second division.

I also think maybe some of our better players need to go and play abroad for 12-18 months, to gain more maturity, a different style of playing, and probably a much different lifestyle too.

[old darwen blue]

Look let's face facts. Apart from the fact that the game originated here we aren't very good as a national side and were overtaken decades ago by other countries. We only won the World Cup in 66 because we hosted it. When we were in the prem I enjoyed watching the best players from around the world and couldn't care less how many homegrown players were in a team.

Lets just be realistic in our expectations folks.

Yes I am English, Darwen born and bred before anyone asks.

[wolfie]

Interesting tweet from Henry Winter yesterday.

Henry Winter ‏@henrywinter 4 Sep

Obvious need for more/better coaches. Uefa A: England 1161 coaches, Spain 12720, Germany 5500. Pro Licence: England 203, Spain 2,140, Ger 1k

http://t.co/RYo1xz8sYw

[yoda]

Interesting tweet from Henry Winter yesterday.

Henry Winter ‏@henrywinter 4 Sep

Obvious need for more/better coaches. Uefa A: England 1161 coaches, Spain 12720, Germany 5500. Pro Licence: England 203, Spain 2,140, Ger 1k

http://t.co/RYo1xz8sYw

if there were more people to coach there would be more coaches,

when was the last time you saw kids playing football in the street or park,

they play on line now

[Amo]

I guess you just needed to be there in '66.

I doubt it. It was a far more innocent time back then, when the game wasn't corrupt, footballers were average Joes, and people still had a sense of national identity... I assume? The whole complexion of football and society has changed drastically since the class of '66 and cannot be equated to whatever WC success the current generation would achieve.

[wolfie]

if there were more people to coach there would be more coaches,

when was the last time you saw kids playing football in the street or park,

they play on line now

Or if there were more coaches we could coach the people who are playing to a higher standard?

[BRFC1995]

He's not alone. I couldn't give a fook about the national side, tbqh.

+1

2 weeks without meaningful football, not even league 1 and 2 just as the season starts.

Its all tv money and bribes at international level, the big 10 -12 footballing countries should always get a free pass into the world cups, 9 times out of 10 if not 10 out of 10 they'll qualify anyway just a waste of time and about 10 pages of boring as hell non stories in the back of newspapers for 2 weeks.

would I swap rovers winning a penalty for England winning a match......would I hell

Rovers and league football in general, followed by darts and golf is the be all and end all of my sporting interest, almost consider international football a different sport as much interest in the result as an England rugby result......none

[thenodrog]

Or if there were more coaches we could coach the people who are playing to a higher standard?

Wrong..... The best kids will be signed on to some club or other at a very early age and will already be being coached to death.

[wolfie]

Wrong..... The best kids will be signed on to some club or other at a very early age and will already be being coached to death.

But if there are more quality coaches there will be a larger pool of youngsters to choose from.

[yoda]

But if there are more quality coaches there will be a larger pool of youngsters to choose from.

supply and demand, coaches will not sit around waiting for someone to come through the door, they need customers ie money

[Audax]

It's a dilemma, it's the poisoned chalice, you do a poor job, you become the most hated man in England... the latter I think has gone by the wayside a little as now, people realise maybe England is not made of world-beaters. And some people are harsh judges, virtually every country except for Germany have a poor tournament now and then. Even the Euro '04 was bad for Germany.

But I think the most that bothers me as touched on, some of the players come off too arrogant, pompous, like this or that. Some of them try though.

This was in the daily mail but I first read it at soccernews. Really revealing imho.

Blackpool winger Tom Ince has revealed an influx of foreign players prompted him to snub recent interest from Premier League clubs.

The 21-year-old, who starred in the Championship last season as he netted 18 goals in 44 appearances, entered talks with Cardiff City last month and was reportedly a target for both Tottenham and Everton.

But following a decision to stay at Blackpool, Ince has revealed that his fear of being left on the bench has forced him to wait until he feels he is ready to earn his place in the top flight.

"If you look at a lot of clubs in the Premier League, particularly the top five, there are a lot of foreign players. It makes it very hard for young English players to break through," he told The Daily Mail.

"A lot of people make rash decisions, based on getting into the Premier League too quick. You have to earn the right to be somewhere.

"I am happy to be playing in the Championship - people underestimate how good this league is.

Read the rest at http://uk.soccerway.com/news/2013/September/05/ince-foreign-players-make-premier-league-chances-slim/n238837/

And while I'm here, I think a lot of World Cups are tainted.

it was brought up England played at home in '66. Okay but a whole lot of these tournaments have turned on some strange incidences. I'm not going to name names but I think there has been substance abuse in international football and lots of gamesmanship, diving, etc.. I think a fair number of World Cups have been won ugly.

Great spectacle nonetheless.

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And oh yes, I think a lot of people now take pride for the most part in the Olympic athletes, medal winners and so on vs. those footballers many perceive as being overpayed and bloated.

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And hindsight is 20/20, I may be wrong, I think in hindsight, Sven who seemed to be a bit of a hate figure, I think actually did a good job. Maybe I'm wrong, England won a lot. England tends to still win a lot and stay high in the FIFA rankings; but they just don't have many impressive tournaments like Holland, France, naturally Italy and Germany.

[Stuart]

That Tom Ince comment about the PL is priceless!

Sounds like sour grapes because no (big enough) PL team has come in for him.

"I'm happy to be playing in the Championship" indeed. Pah!

[imy9]

...or are words of wisdom from a grounded young man. There are numerous examples of young English players who have seen the pound signs, gone to a top English club and then sat on the bench/played in the reserves. Sinclair at Man City, being the perfect example.

[Majiball]

Lets look outside of Britain and to the rest of the world and how they are doing at producing talent?

How are say France, Germany, Spain, Holland and Italy doing these days, are they producing in comparison to Britain.

[roversR4ever]

I actually think restricting the number of foreign players in a prem team may work.

A huge amount of money comes into the prem. A lot of it goes on wages - a good number foreign players

If the top teams had restrictions on the number of foreign players, suddenly finding and developing home based players becomes critical. There is a good chance that there would be a huge increase in money spent on coaching. Simply they would have to, it would be in the interest of all the big clubs if the pool of players to pick from increased. They might even be willing to see more of the money go into grass roots football because it suddenly becomes in the interest of the prem clubs for that too happen. If you have better facilities more places for younger kids to play safely and good coaches for 6-10 year olds. The clubs and the academies of all clubs would have better players to develop.

At the moment the prem clubs have more money they can get players from around the world outbid the vast majority of clubs in Europe. It doesn't matter to them where the players come from.