[Archived] England Decline Must End

[Salgado Is A Hero]

It happens to Hart all the time though.

More for club than for country but still.

Even against Ukraine, he conceded a penalty (well he should have) after less than a minute, the ball was bouncing in the area about 10 minutes later and he was unconvincing trying to claim it....and there was another incident shortly after but that's slipped my mind at the moment.

[Amo]

Tony Hart would do a better job in goal - and he's dead.

[Stuart]

Well he was good with his hands.

I can almost hear Albatross playing to a slo-mo compilation of best saves too.

[Guest Norbert]

Hart seemed to be something special, but has become pretty damn poor over the last couple of seasons. He needs to be dropped from the England team until he sorts himself out. We have a number of 'pretty good' keepers that can take his place. There doesn't seem to be any real deal coming through, and we've had plenty of flash in the pan youngsters since Seaman retired. Carson, Wright, Foster, Hart and even Robinson have all been hyped at one point as the next great English keeper, and failed to live up to early hype to varying levels.

[RevidgeBlue]

Hart's rubbish imo. Never rated him.

To think years ago we had Shilton, Clemence and Phil Parkes who couldn't get anywhere near the England team because of the other two. Parkes would walk into the England side now.

The art of goalkeeping seems to have died a death in recent years as the ball has become lighter, travels far faster and swerves about for fun. Few keepers risk catching the ball these days taking the easy option to punch it away and the art of narrowing down angles and commanding the box seem to have been lost as the ball travels faster and faster.

[tonyoz]

England are undoubtedly one of the most boring international teams to watch. Absolutely dire.

I love how afterwards it's "job done", "would have taken that at the start", etc. Any truly world class team would have buried that Ukrainian side tonight. Spain, Brazil, Italy, Holland, Argentina, Germany would have put 2 or 3 past them easily. For England a 0-0 without a single meaningful chance (that I can recall, anyway) is good.

Yep! I haven't watched a full England game for ages and if that is the cream of English football on display - give me the Championship any day! Poor, poor football; more excitement in 5 minutes of the Bolton game than in the full 90 minutes v Ukraine.

[Silencio]

The art of goalkeeping seems to have died a death in recent years as the ball has become lighter, travels far faster and swerves about for fun. Few keepers risk catching the ball these days taking the easy option to punch it away and the art of narrowing down angles and commanding the box seem to have been lost as the ball travels faster and faster.

You are right about Hart, Rev. He's had one or two good seasons but he can't get down for shots, his kicking/distribution is terrible and he thinks he's brilliant. There's plenty of good European goalkeepers though.

After a bad start I think De Gea looks the real deal, his distribution was always good as was his shot stopping but he's now doing the other things well. Lloris is at Spurs is very good and allows them to defend with a higher line as he's good enough with his feet to deal with anything 30 yards from the goal line. Courtois at Chelsea/Athletico is probably the best of all the new goalkeepers though. Buffon, Cech, Neuer (possibly slighty overrated) and a few of the Spaniards are also still good.

People can big up the goalkeepers of the past but they had the back pass rule to help them out, as did defenders. The best new goalkeepers play as semi-sweepers. This is why it's ridiculous that people made Hart out to be 'world class'. He doesn't have anywhere near enough skills to be compared to the keepers I mentioned above. And the other English goalkeepers are exactly the same.

[Silencio]

If there's one reason to be optimistic with the National Team, it's the manager. However it is to watch, he knows how to get the correct results at this level, and has done with even worse sets of players than these.

Not sure about that. I liked Woy most of the time he was here and we actually looked very good the first 2/3rds of 97/98 season but the league was different then and you can see it in his tactics now. Backwards. I don't really expect a lot more as England haven't been any good to watch since Hoddle left but Woy isn't giving much cause for optimism, nor is he deserving of the sack.

Lampard/Gerrard have never done well for England and Wilshere may be overrated but a midfield choice of them + Carrick should be able to keep the ball reasonably well against the Ukraine. Is the movement of the full backs/wingers the issue? I don't think Roy encourages much of that but nor does he have good options on the wing...

[thenodrog]

England are undoubtedly one of the most boring international teams to watch. Absolutely dire.

I love how afterwards it's "job done", "would have taken that at the start", etc. Any truly world class team would have buried that Ukrainian side tonight. Spain, Brazil, Italy, Holland, Argentina, Germany would have put 2 or 3 past them easily. For England a 0-0 without a single meaningful chance (that I can recall, anyway) is good.

Really DE? Well some of Tuesdays results from around Europe don't really back that up. Faroe Islands 0- Germany 3...... Italy 2 - Czech Rep 1..... Andorra 0 - Holland 2...... Belarus 2- France 4. Sure all the big guns won their games but tbh with the exception of the czech rep I'd expect the Ukraine to have comfortably overcome all those 'minnows'. How happy would we be or more like how critical if England had relicated those results?

Nobody can pass the ball or hold possession. Walcott runs into blind alleys most of the time. Our lack of depth up top and in the middle of the park is alarming.

Walcott is fine by me. He is one of the few with real international quality.

[thenodrog]

That '74 Dutch team that went to the finals of the World Cup was lucky to go, in fact, that book "Brilliant Orange" tells the story that their qualifying was a bit flukey at that.

------------

One of the finest teams that I have ever had the privilege to see. Such a shame that that 1st min penalty suckered them into over confidence and stirred up the Germans. Over the years that I have watched them the Dutch have given me more pleasure than any other international team. Their biggest enemy is their national psyche.

[Audax]

October 17 1973 England 1 1 Poland - http://eloratings.net/England.htm

It's interesting, coming down the pipe, England will play Poland close to the anniversary of that draw kept England out of the 1974 World Cup.

So, England's hands will be full with those 2 fixtures in October, I believe hosting both Montenegro and Poland.

Of course, let's remember, the situation this time is England need to win both of these matches to "automatically qualify" for the World Cup, no playoffs.

Heard an announcer say for the last World Cup, Uruguay had to go to the playoffs to get to South Africa and Uruguay finished 4th in the World Cup.

[DE.]

Really DE? Well some of Tuesdays results from around Europe don't really back that up. Faroe Islands 0- Germany 3...... Italy 2 - Czech Rep 1..... Andorra 0 - Holland 2...... Belarus 2- France 4. Sure all the big guns won their games but tbh with the exception of the czech rep I'd expect the Ukraine to have comfortably overcome all those 'minnows'. How happy would we be or more like how critical if England had relicated those results?

You should know better than anybody that as long as you win it doesn't matter. I certainly woudn't be overly critical or indeed critical at all if we'd won 1 or 2-0.

The fact is, we didn't win, and we never looked like winning. If anything we looked like losing as a stonewall penalty for Ukraine was denied in the opening stages of the match and they had two chances where a simple touch would have put the ball into our net.

I suppose it depends on your expectations of the team. You can only really be happy with that result and performance if you view England as a minor power in modern football (and maybe we should?).

[Audax]

The South American countries are playing well mostly. http://uk.soccerway.com/teams/rankings/fifa/?ICID=TN_04_03_01 , Argentina has gone up to #2 FIFA and yes, there are many who will say ratings don't mean much. Brazil isn't ranked high because as host they are not playing competitive matches.

Also seems a team could go to Brazil and be embarrassed. Something to be apprehensive about as well though if England qualify I won't let pessimism guide me at that.

[Batman.]

Not sure about that. I liked Woy most of the time he was here and we actually looked very good the first 2/3rds of 97/98 season but the league was different then and you can see it in his tactics now. Backwards. I don't really expect a lot more as England haven't been any good to watch since Hoddle left but Woy isn't giving much cause for optimism, nor is he deserving of the sack.

Lampard/Gerrard have never done well for England and Wilshere may be overrated but a midfield choice of them + Carrick should be able to keep the ball reasonably well against the Ukraine. Is the movement of the full backs/wingers the issue? I don't think Roy encourages much of that but nor does he have good options on the wing...

As I stated, he knows how to get the required result at international level. His tenure with us has no real impact on my opinion, but rather his time as Switzerland and Finland. I believe he also did well under very difficult circumstances with the UAE, although admittedly that is a different kettle of fish.

[yoda]

As I stated, he knows how to get the required result at international level. His tenure with us has no real impact on my opinion, but rather his time as Switzerland and Finland. I believe he also did well under very difficult circumstances with the UAE, although admittedly that is a different kettle of fish.

He can't be much cop, he hasn't managed Brazil, Germany or Italy

[Batman.]

He can't be much cop, he hasn't managed Brazil, Germany or Italy

"Er, er, er, eeeerrr, uumm, eerrr, eeer, uumm, errr.... Tit!"

[yoda]

"Er, er, er, eeeerrr, uumm, eerrr, eeer, uumm, errr.... Tit!"

just using your main point for any/all posts that you make

[Batman.]

just using your main point for any/all posts that you make

Again, if you were't so incredibly thick, you would have gleaned that my point is that it's very unlikely that you can be recognised as one of the "greatest ever" unless you've played, or in this case managed at one of the very top clubs.

Whilst Hodgson probably won't go down as one of the greatest of all time, it's ironic that he has in fact managed at some very big clubs.

But then, I wouldn't expect somebody as dense as yourself to have correctly grasped my fairly simple point.

[yoda]

Again, if you were't so incredibly thick, you would have gleaned that my point is that it's very unlikely that you can be recognised as one of the "greatest ever" unless you've played, or in this case managed at one of the very top clubs.

Whilst Hodgson probably won't go down as one of the greatest of all time, it's ironic that he has in fact managed at some very big clubs.

But then, I wouldn't expect somebody as dense as yourself to have correctly grasped my fairly simple point.

are you an only child

[Batman.]

Another great response yoda. You really are an embarrassment, and a walking epitaph of what 90% of this board has become.

[yoda]

Another great response yoda. You really are an embarrassment, and a walking epitaph of what 90% of this board has become.

You have not been a member long enough to know what this board has become,

stop being so forceful and members might give you a bit of respect

[Batman.]

You have not been a member long enough to know what this board has become,

stop being so forceful and members might give you a bit of respect

I've been a member since 2001.

[yoda]

I've been a member since 2001.

really,

this is from your profile page

Batman. Member Since 05 Feb 2011

[Guest Norbert]

I think Batman had a previous username.

[yoda]

I think Batman had a previous username.

probably

and a very good reason for changing it