[Archived] England Decline Must End

[DE.]

Is it most kids in proportion to population or just the most in general? Obviously considering the land mass and population of the US you would expect a large amount even if the uptake amongst kids was quite small.

[thenodrog]

According to FIFA the USA has more kids playing soccer than any other nation, which I think is cool.

And we've recently qualified for the World Cup http://www.ussoccer.com/tournaments/fifa-world-cup-qualifying/2014-fifa-world-cup-qualifying.aspx.

I really hope the USA does well this go round, but I'll be cheering on England to, as my [distant] second team.

On the issue of youth playing soccer, I would not discount the emotional pull of a parent coaching his or her child's team. Kids want time with their parents and in an age of broken homes, a dad coaching his son or daughter's team would be a huge pull for both parent and child. So I'd focus on getting the parents trained (for free, so you don't discourage them or create barriers- use some of that PL money, you have enough of it), not bringing in supposed professional coaches.

Just my two cents.

Forget coaching American parents in the technical aspects. Just make proper football 'cool' to the kids and persuade the parents that football is a great alternative if you don't have the attributes required for Rugby for wimps or Rounders . That way any estranged 'Dad' will take them to organised coaching sessions. Financially the inputs into football are much less than for the others, a pair of trainers, a ball and a back yard with a wall will do for starters.

btw I'm sure in a parallel universe John Williams and BRFC under the Trust would have capitalised massively on Brads soccer school churning out talent to bring that talent over here, develop it at the Academy and sell on at whatever level the kid achieves but something went way wrong there didn't it?

[Guest Norbert]

I think it nearly bankrupted Brad actually.

Anyway, hopefully this St. Georges Park development will help drive the standards up, as I believe there are facilities that aim to teach coaching. It will work as long as empty headed goons who talk a good game (e.g. Brooking), and gimmick led sections of the FA keep out and let it be run as a proper academic course. The Premier League should also use it's riches to subsidise the lower leagues and their coaches, as it id often the aspiring coaches themselves who'd have to pay to get the right UEFA license. And they're not cheap.

Speaking of St. George's Park, wasn't there constant talk of something like this based somewhere in the midlands since the early 90's, but it has only now been acted upon?

[Salgado Is A Hero]

Is it true that American parents are now hesitant to allow their kids to play American Football due to the long-term damage it causes? That might be good for the development of real football in America.

[K-Hod]

I went over to the US and coached twice, in 2007 and 2008. Whilst kids seem keen on proper football at first, they tended to lose interest as they got older and prioritised American sports as far as I could see.

[Steve Moss]

Is it true that American parents are now hesitant to allow their kids to play American Football due to the long-term damage it causes? That might be good for the development of real football in America.

Yes. Concussion and other issues are becoming more and more front and center, so football is losing kids.

Though I think cost plays a role also. The economic times are a bit hard. I run the local youth soccer league and I can enroll a kid for $30. The Pop Warner league costs around $160 (I've been told).

Balancing costs and reported risks, more parents are tending to prefer soccer.

But a third factor may also play a role, in that I see a lot of second generation soccer players. Moms and Dads who played a decade or so ago are now coaching their kids. Locally soccer is the number one youth sport, and I think the same trend is appearing nationwide.

I went over to the US and coached twice, in 2007 and 2008. Whilst kids seem keen on proper football at first, they tended to lose interest as they got older and prioritised American sports as far as I could see.

This is true, in part.

For example, I have 220 kids in my U10 division. I only have 143 in my U14 division.

But 3-4 years ago I had less than a 100 in the U14 division. So we are retaining more. And I've noticed that the younger divisions (U5, U6, U8) are growing in size each year.

By way comparison, when I took over the league in 2010 we had 616 kids and we were considered large. Now we have 1,081. And this is a small, dusty desert community where the average age is around 45.

More globally, FIFA has done a very interesting report- http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/fifafacts/bcoffsurv/emaga_9384_10704.pdf

China has the most players (registered or unregistered), followed closely by the USA. The USA has the most registered (in an organized league) youth players at 3.9 million, followed by Germany (2 million), with England ranked 6th (820,000). The same breakdown holds true with registered male youth players, with USA being first with 2.3 million, Germany second with 1.8 million and England 6th with 750,000. What surprised me is that the USA is far and away the most active in registered female youth (1.5 million), with England being 7th with only 70,000.

These numbers are interesting as:

1. The numbers are pretty much corresponds to success in women's soccer, where USA and Germany are ranked nos. 1 and 2, respectively;

2. Don't correspond with success in men's soccer as the USA is only ranked 13th and England 17th. Germany is ranked 3rd, so that at least is close.

My personal theory, with no evidence to back it up, is that the youth data shows where each nation is going. USA soccer has been growing by leaps and bounds and its only a matter of time before it begins to produce consistent quality. More, the number of women involved is a sign of good health as mom's will actively participate with their children, and so in the USA kids will get the desire from both sets of parents, unlike many other countries, which should further develop youth soccer as time goes on.

England should be doing better, 6th in the world based on youth participation. You would expect this to have a knock on effect in the adult, national leagues. But then again so should the USA. I think its only a matter of time before both are nations improve, though I think it'll take a generation or two for both our countries, but it would be more rapid if: 1) England focused on encouraging more girls to play; and 2) politics is taken out of national team selection (playing for big clubs and having sponsors should have nothing to do with team selection).

[Majiball]

http://www.thefootballexpress.co.uk/2010/07/fixing-youth-development-in-england-a-few-thoughts-part-1/

Part 2 is at the bottom.

[speeeeeeedie]

Forget coaching American parents in the technical aspects. Just make proper football 'cool' to the kids and persuade the parents that football is a great alternative if you don't have the attributes required for Rugby for wimps or Rounders .

A decent point. USA Football needs to get the best athletes. If they do that they'll win the World Cup every time. However, the type they need still plays American football and basketball, and they are usually from the inner cities/poorer homes, and aren't being taught about football.

But a third factor may also play a role, in that I see a lot of second generation soccer players. Moms and Dads who played a decade or so ago are now coaching their kids. Locally soccer is the number one youth sport, and I think the same trend is appearing nationwide.

The 2nd generation thing is true. More mumd and dads who coach kids at a young age did play, 20 years ago they did not.

Agree here. I see it a lot too.

I have been coaching in the USA for over 10 years now and the standard is getting better. State assocations are starting to catch on to developnig players at a young age to understand how to control a ball, and not hoof it.

Parents are still mental but with many state associations adopting an approach that lets member clubs operate developmental academies for U8's upward it takes the nutcase parents out of the way early and gets the kids decent coaching.

Many of you will be surprised at the quality of kids that are being produced. Big city youth clubs in Chicago, Dallas, Los Angeles to name 3 have some excellent players. My issue is that from 16 up there is nothing to push them on, aside from going abroad. The pro set up is severly hampered by the university system, and it's governing assocation; the NCAA that mandates amateurism. This is in place to attempt to stop cheating at perdeominantly American Football.

This rule deprives youngsters the opportunity to play with and against professional players, which is crucial to making them better. The mentality is still that players should aim to play at a university and get a degree. Very noble, but if they are good at 16 and want to try their hand at the pro level, but lose out at 18-19, they are unable to play at university.

I could go on all day about this.

[speeeeeeedie]

For those who aren't Rovers centric, England have a massive game this Friday against Montenegro. A win is a must.

Woy should have a full squad of perennial underachievers to choose from. I'd definitely play Sturridge up front, with Welbeck roaming around near him.

ESPNFC (formerly Soccernet) is running a series this week on why England's dearth of talent. It makes for some interesting reading.

[roversfan99]

England still have a very good squad of players, yes it isn't up to the standard of Spain, Germany, Brazil and a couple more but whilst the coaching system is obviously flawed, we still have some real talent.

Woy should come out and talk up the standard of the squad, and play an attacking side; Montenegro and Poland shouldn't be feared, we have much better players no matter how much we put down our team.

I would play:

Hart

Walker Jagielka Cahill Baines

Carrick Gerrard

Townsend Rooney Wilshire

Sturridge

Subs: Forster, Lampard, Welbeck, Lambert, Barkley, Milner, Jones.

I only picked Hart because he will definitely play, not sure I would pick him myself.

That side has plenty of players in Gerrard, Carrick, Wilshire and Rooney who are good on the ball, there is no reason why we should be afraid of passing it around, we have a front 2 who can score plenty of goals, I picked Wilshire on the left because he can tuck in, Rooney is needed in the number 10 role and Baines is brilliant on the overlap, and I would play him over Cole even if Cole was fit.

I understand to a certain extent that in Ukraine, the goal was to get a point, we didn't have a few key attacking players so just ground out a result but I don't understand why we can't pass it more. The players are capable, they need to be given the license and confidence. Gerrard has an excellent range of passing, Wilshire can pick out a pass, Carrick is an excellent player at dictating the play, Rooney will come deep to join in, I would like to see England express themselves a bit, there is more talent there than we give ourselves credit for.

If Rooney keeps coming back to make it a fluid 5 in the middle, which he often does, then there is no reason for us to surrender the possession battle.

[Plastics]

Whilst I don't support England (I support Rovers alone), it's not the same when they don't qualify for a tournament.

[Steve Moss]

Many of you will be surprised at the quality of kids that are being produced. Big city youth clubs in Chicago, Dallas, Los Angeles to name 3 have some excellent players. My issue is that from 16 up there is nothing to push them on, aside from going abroad. The pro set up is severly hampered by the university system, and it's governing assocation; the NCAA that mandates amateurism. This is in place to attempt to stop cheating at perdeominantly American Football.

This rule deprives youngsters the opportunity to play with and against professional players, which is crucial to making them better. The mentality is still that players should aim to play at a university and get a degree. Very noble, but if they are good at 16 and want to try their hand at the pro level, but lose out at 18-19, they are unable to play at university.

I could go on all day about this.

Here in Arizona soccer has established a residential academy for the 14-18 year olds- http://www.grandesportsacademy.com/academy/

Essentially, it's a soccer focused high school. I think its the first in the country but more will follow I'm sure.

I'm confident that the USA will be a soccer (or real football, for the purists out there) power house over the next decade or two.

[J*B]

Hart

Walker Jones Jagielka Baines

Wilshere Gerrard

Walcott Rooney Ox.

Sturridge.

For me. PACE!

[DE.]

Here in Arizona soccer has established a residential academy for the 14-18 year olds- http://www.grandesportsacademy.com/academy/

Essentially, it's a soccer focused high school. I think its the first in the country but more will follow I'm sure.

I'm confident that the USA will be a soccer (or real football, for the purists out there) power house over the next decade or two.

Close to being on a par with England already tbh.

[Audax]

USA could be a darkhorse for this coming World Cup 2014, they were in fact, semi-finalists in the first World Cup though they were whipped by Argentina. They did well at 2002, lost to Germany whereas many say the Germans blocked a pretty sure USA goal with a handball which wasn't caught.

Good write up on the England Netherlands match from 20 years ago that saw England miss out on the 1994 World Cup. I have the first England Netherlands match at Wembley on video, good game, 2-2 in about March, April 1993 and it was a pity that that game turned out to be a draw.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24354888

A bit of trouble to hook up the old video to watch some of those games, I have a number of them. Those video recorders were a hassle compared to watching DVDs.

Have to remember, 2006, USA drew eventual champs Italy in group play; so they've done okay. Shouldn't be losing to Costa Rica but I suppose it can be tolerated. They've had some great games, defeating Spain at the Confederations Cup 2009, that ended Spain's long winning streak, USA also has lost to teams like Panama. So they are unpredictable. Beat Italy in Italy but just a friendly.

[speeeeeeedie]

Hart

Walker Jones Jagielka Baines

Wilshere Gerrard

Walcott Rooney Ox.

Sturridge.

For me. PACE!

It looks like Cole is out so Baines will get a start. I thought that Ox and Walcott were still injured.

I think Gerrard can do a decent job as the cover midfielder. Wilshere has to play as he can keep the ball moving. As I said earlier I like Welbeck. I'm not sure about Rooney. The back 5 picks itself.

[Blue n White Rover]

Big game for England. However, the thought of Roy Hodgson leading us out for the World Cup is a thought to make any sane man shudder. Rubbish manager.

[Steve Moss]

Big game for England. However, the thought of Roy Hodgson leading us out for the World Cup is a thought to make any sane man shudder. Rubbish manager.

I agree about Hodgson. You needed Sam Allardyce. He'd get England performing.

[Blue n White Rover]

I agree about Hodgson. You needed Sam Allardyce. He'd get England performing.

I still can't get over the fact we rejected Pep to take Hodgson.

[Proudtobeblue&white]

Job x 1 done, never make it easy, but we should demolish Poland on Tuesday, Townsend looks impressive, don't give up hope!

[Sparky Marky]

we should demolish Poland!

Hmm..it's never ever that easy with us.

[Audax]

Mathematically it may be possible but odds must be very small for England to miss the playoffs should they only draw with Poland OR even lose. But I think England will get their fifth consecutive automatic promotion to the World Cup. And I'm not saying that to sound "confident".

One wants to avoid the playoffs, most likely Portugal, France, Sweden, Croatia and 3 other countries will be in the playoffs (besides England or Ukraine out of group H), best to miss that. Have to give Portugal credit, seems they have to end up taking the hard road in recent tournaments but have made it. Hope FIFA doesn't juggle things around to help the big countries, let it fall where it may.

http://int.soccerway.com/international/europe/wc-qualifying-europe/2014-brazil/1st-round/r15653/

Looks like group B. with Denmark and Bulgaria are most likely to miss the playoffs even if they finish 2nd.

Things look a whale of a lot better though now.

------------

Big game a little later of Mexico hosting Panama at the Azteca goes a long way in determining the fate of these countries to make the World Cup. Just had to add that in, Mexico doesn't miss World Cups, they missed in '90 because of breaking the rules with age regulations so they almost always make it, have gone into a dive, use to the King of the CONCACAF anthill.

[Sparky Marky]

Most ridiculous decision to allow 18, 000 Poland fans into Wembley tomorrow. ..what on earth possess them idiots. ...one game in 3 years that means anything and they try and @#/? it up....

[cn174]

Most ridiculous decision to allow 18, 000 Poland fans into Wembley tomorrow. ..what on earth possess them idiots. ...one game in 3 years that means anything and they try and Kean it up....

Maybe so, but tickets have been on sale to England fans (members) for months and they've not shifted. Any England fan who reckons now they can't get a ticket cos they've gone to Poland is lying.

But I'm definitely not buying all this 'the FA were forced into it due to safety fears' bla bla When we played France the FA were actively selling tickets in Paris getting people to come and sit wherever they liked, although I know it was a friendly. Same for Ghana and Holland games. They just want the stadium filling! But it'll give Poland a big boost to have that many there.

[AndyNeil]

Most ridiculous decision to allow 18, 000 Poland fans into Wembley tomorrow. ..what on earth possess them idiots. ...one game in 3 years that means anything and they try and Kean it up....

Why is it ridiculous? Still 70,000+ England fans there to roar the team on to Brazil! It will make for a better atmosphere, which you'd like to think will make it a better match.

I'm sure if they took some of the less glamorous qualifiers around the country and played the big matches at Wembley, the average cockney football fan wouldn't have been drained of cash by the FA over the season and there would be much more chance of them selling out quickly. Is would negate the need to give 10k / 15k / 18k tickets to away fans - but that's a different discussion, and like Claire says, the FA just want the ground full in order to re-pay the financial millstone around their neck that is Wembley.