[Archived] Lampard Greatest Footballer in the BPL era

[bluebruce]

And Friedel? Like it or lump it, only Rovers fans would have him anywhere near a "Top 20 Premier League Players of All Time" List.

Just not true. I've had fans of other clubs readily agree that he is in the top 2 or 3 keepers the Prem has had. Some I've had to persuade, but most have just agreed outright. As much as I hate to admit it, moving to Villa and later Tottenham gave him more attention. If he'd stayed with us you'd probably be right.

[K-Hod]

Friedel was (and still is) absolutely superb. He was consistently brilliant for the longest IMO.

He had far more to do than most of the others!!!!

[eire3382]

These lists are always completely subjective. I would happily argue that he is in the pantheon of 'best PL players' since it's inception - he may well also be in the list of 'most under rated PL players' - Rooney probably topping the most over rated list.

Thats a far better discussion, who is the most over rated player and the most under rated player.

For me the most over rated player by far is Terry.

[neekoy]

Bit on a nonsensical argument. They are completely different players playing completely different roles. Comparing the two is like comparing a full back and a winger. Two Makeleles in the same team would have been a disaster and so would two Lampards in the same team. What they did do was complement each other very well.

Well you can't get a top 20 player list of just one position though can you? I am not comparing them in positions, I am comparing them for trophies, the influence they have in every team they play in, natural skill and abilty, how they are judged by their peers, achievements...

Lampard has done very well for Chelsea no question, but Makelele's influence and undeniable value to absolutely every team he played with stands him higher on my list. If we are talking about ONLY playing time in the PL then OK, but not in overall achievement.

[K-Hod]

Makelele was superb for Real Madrid, and indeed for Chelsea- but he went about his job with a minimum of fuss.

Winning the ball and playing it simple.

[rigger]

Thats a far better discussion, who is the most over rated player and the most under rated player.

For me the most over rated player by far is Terry.

For me over-rated, Rio Ferdinand as a defender.

Under-rated, super Atko.

[Salgado Is A Hero]

Thats a far better discussion, who is the most over rated player and the most under rated player.

For me the most over rated player by far is Terry.

Overrated - Rooney

Underrated - Beckham

[thenodrog]

Overrated? Lots of em. Starting with Dyer, Jenus, Veron, Djemba Djemba and MURPHY!

Underrated and massively so ....... Tugay.

[Rover_Shaun]

Overrated - Rooney

Underrated - Beckham

You put a one legged one trick pony on the wrong line. He should be with Rooney

[Jimmy612]

Overrated - Rooney

Underrated - Beckham

Madness if you think Beckham was underrated.

A good player, a fantastic professional but completely one footed, lacked a trick, was slow, couldn't tackle and poor in the air. Had a good touch and a fantastic right foot. Fair play to the guy he played to his strengths, but not for a second do I think he's ever been underrated.

Question for you. But for the Greece game - did you ever see him grab a game by the scruff of the neck and go and win it like a Gerrard in his pomp? Or dictate an entire game like Zidane or Pirlo?

I should also add that had Beckham been good enough, he would have played as a Central Midfielder. Unfortunately his lack of all round ability meant he had to work incredibly hard on the one good aspect of his game, crossing. That dedication gave him a career, not his natural footballing ablility.

[Salgado Is A Hero]

I think people underrate him when they say that he was at United, Madrid and Milan due to his marketability etc. All the fans of those clubs loved him, because he was a really good player for them.

I don't care for this "all-round player" nonsense. He was quality at what he did and was one of the top wingers of his generation. He didn't have to beat a man, or outpace them, to whip a quality cross in. He could just do it anyway by finding space for it.

All Makelele did was win the ball back and keep it simple. He didn't have to anything else. And neither did Beckham. He rarely had a bad game, played well in the big games, and regularly got goals and assists.

He played as a CM later in his career, and was quality. Because his passing was just as good as his crossing.

He's not one of the best players I've ever seen. And for example, Figo was a better winger. But I still think he's underrated. ("He would never have played for three of the biggest clubs in the world if he looked like Luke Chadwick" etc......utter b*llocks).

[rigger]

I think people underrate him when they say that he was at United, Madrid and Milan due to his marketability etc. All the fans of those clubs loved him, because he was a really good player for them.

I don't care for this "all-round player" nonsense. He was quality at what he did and was one of the top wingers of his generation. He didn't have to beat a man, or outpace them, to whip a quality cross in. He could just do it anyway by finding space for it.

All Makelele did was win the ball back and keep it simple. He didn't have to anything else. And neither did Beckham. He rarely had a bad game, played well in the big games, and regularly got goals and assists.

He played as a CM later in his career, and was quality. Because his passing was just as good as his crossing.

He's not one of the best players I've ever seen. And for example, Figo was a better winger. But I still think he's underrated. ("He would never have played for three of the biggest clubs in the world if he looked like Luke Chadwick" etc......utter b*llocks).

Why do you think he was under-rated. (what do you class as being under-rated).

[Batman.]

Just not true. I've had fans of other clubs readily agree that he is in the top 2 or 3 keepers the Prem has had. Some I've had to persuade, but most have just agreed outright. As much as I hate to admit it, moving to Villa and later Tottenham gave him more attention. If he'd stayed with us you'd probably be right.

That doesn't disprove anything I've said. I bet they still wouldn't have him near their Top 20, and rightly so.

Whilst he was undoubtedly a top goalkeeper, it's a much easier time keeping goal in the middle/ upper middle of the Premier League than it is at the very top level of the game. In Brad's one opportunity to keep goal at a very big club, he blew it.

Amazing keeper? Yes. Top 20 all time players in this country over the last 20 years? No.

[Salgado Is A Hero]

Why do you think he was under-rated. (what do you class as being under-rated).

What I said before. When people say it was his looks/marketability that made him a superstar. If he wasn't a really good player, then there's no chance Madrid would have bought him. And people say he could only cross and take free kicks and therefore wasn't top level.

My definition of underrated is the majority of people rating a player less than I do.

Things like this are too subjective, and therefore in a way pointless, but I enjoy debating things like this to hear different view points.

Beckham usually played well for England in tournaments as well, from what I recall, which is more than most of the other "golden generation".

[bluebruce]

That doesn't disprove anything I've said. I bet they still wouldn't have him near their Top 20, and rightly so.

Whilst he was undoubtedly a top goalkeeper, it's a much easier time keeping goal in the middle/ upper middle of the Premier League than it is at the very top level of the game. In Brad's one opportunity to keep goal at a very big club, he blew it.

Amazing keeper? Yes. Top 20 all time players in this country over the last 20 years? No.

Well, I went and looked at a list of the top 100 Premier League players, compiled by an Arsenal fan. And Brad Friedel was listed 23rd on the list. Which is in fact 'near their top 20, and rightly so.'

[Batman.]

Well I looked on a Top 10000 List by a Newcastle fan, and he was only 78th, so there.

[bluebruce]

That's great and all, but you said only Blackburn fans would have him anywhere near their top 20, so there.

[Audax]

I rate Beckham however internationally, he needed to do something because he had major lapses, getting sent off against Argentina in '98 and people sometimes say he failed to make a tackle in the Brazil England 2002 World Cup game that led to Brazil scoring. Still, if MacLaren had started him vs. Croatia in 2007, that game, England probably would have faired better. You could depend on his freekicks, corner kicks like clockwork. That said, if he'd been maybe a little less a marketing image himself, imho, all the modelling stuff, tattoos, etc., England might have done better as well.

[rigger]

What I said before. When people say it was his looks/marketability that made him a superstar. If he wasn't a really good player, then there's no chance Madrid would have bought him. And people say he could only cross and take free kicks and therefore wasn't top level.

My definition of underrated is the majority of people rating a player less than I do.

Things like this are too subjective, and therefore in a way pointless, but I enjoy debating things like this to hear different view points.

Beckham usually played well for England in tournaments as well, from what I recall, which is more than most of the other "golden generation".

So it wasn't that he was underrated, but just not as highly rated, as you think, he should have been

[Majiball]

I rate Beckham however internationally, he needed to do something because he had major lapses, getting sent off against Argentina in '98 and people sometimes say he failed to make a tackle in the Brazil England 2002 World Cup game that led to Brazil scoring. Still, if MacLaren had started him vs. Croatia in 2007, that game, England probably would have faired better. You could depend on his freekicks, corner kicks like clockwork. That said, if he'd been maybe a little less a marketing image himself, imho, all the modelling stuff, tattoos, etc., England might have done better as well.

And in exchange he had performances that made England, especially V's Greece when he was the england team.

[Mike E]

So it wasn't that he was underrated, but just not as highly rated, as you think, he should have been

Isn't that what under-rated means? :$

[Salgado Is A Hero]

So it wasn't that he was underrated, but just not as highly rated, as you think, he should have been

Aren't they the same thing though?

[Batman.]

That's great and all, but you said only Blackburn fans would have him anywhere near their top 20, so there.

I was mocking how pathetic your post is. For you to take a comment so literally to the point where you actually make the post that you did demonstrates that you're not worth debating with. Now go and finish your dot to dot.

[Majiball]

[speeeeeeedie]

Makelele is certainly above Lampard, I have always and will always argue that Lampard became a better player with Makelele by his side (and peaked at Essien). Makelele, Viera and Keane are the three best defensive midfielders in Premier League history.

They weren't defensive midfielders, they were all action. Makelele couldn't do what those 2 did.

I should also add that had Beckham been good enough, he would have played as a Central Midfielder. Unfortunately his lack of all round ability meant he had to work incredibly hard on the one good aspect of his game, crossing. That dedication gave him a career, not his natural footballing ablility.

I saw Beckham at North End when he was there on loan. He was amazing playing central mid. When he started to make his mark United had Keane and Ince running the show. He was not going to replace those 2. Factor in Nicky Butt being picked regularly and he had to find somewhere.

Edit; I forgot, Scholes was in the way too. He was a striker at youth level but someone thought to play him in midfield.