[Archived] Lampard Greatest Footballer in the BPL era

[neekoy]

Jaaskelainen, Freidel, Given, Schwarzer, Martyn, Reina, Cech and Seaman I could have interchanged depending on the day and year I guess

Schmeichel and Van Der Sar are permanent stays in the top 20

[Audax]

Among the best in the PL ever, his international exploits are so well known compared to being a Spur but per the usual German teams of yore, he was such a free spirit, moved out to California, married a Chinese American and set up his own charity. And manages the USA team, don't be to quick to think that's a success, USA got dumped badly in Costa Rica last Friday but nonetheless have qualified for the World Cup. I think he also went to Israel on a goodwill mission too in the past several years.

Klinsmann was on the '90 World Cup winners and the '96 Euro Winners.

Yep, and he'd dive, I can't get away from that fact. And I was happy when Hristo Stoichkov and Bulgaria knocked West Germany out of the 1994 World Cup.

Another foreign product was Petit, that France team that won in 1998 was loaded and France has produced a fair number of so-called world class players.

Lots of players, lots written on this.

Brian McBride to me, was some player for Fulham.

This article discusses some of the top foreigners in the PL. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/897958-jurgen-klinsmann-and-the-top-20-foreigners-to-star-in-the-premier-league

There've certainly been a number, I'd probably include Cesc, Cech, it's difficult really.

Drogba of course is on the list, Kanu or Marc Vivien Foe belong too? The latter probably too young to be on there.

[Salgado Is A Hero]

--------------Schmeichel

Salgado---Stam---Carvalho---Irwin

-----------------Vieira

Ronaldo------------------Ginola/Pires

------------------Zola

-----Cantona-------Henry/Bergkamp

Would be my all-time foreign eleven, even though I've blatantly forgotten someone.

[Stuart]

Brad Friedel was ok no more,

[Silencio]

--------------Schmeichel

Salgado---Stam---Carvalho---Irwin

-----------------Vieira

Ronaldo------------------Ginola/Pires

------------------Zola

-----Cantona-------Henry/Bergkamp

Would be my all-time foreign eleven, even though I've blatantly forgotten someone.

Salgado? Maybe if you counted his Real Madrid form but there are loads of right backs who've been better than he was in the Premier League.

Back to goalkeepers, Brad was the best keeper I ever saw at Rovers and was possibly World Class around 2002 if you looked at how he played in the World Cup. But, Van der Sar won the Champions League in his early 20's at Ajax and was the only was class for United. Lots of United fans will tell you that he was as good as Schmeichel. He was also one of the first truly modern keepers in that he could play with either foot.

Objectively, he was better than Friedel.

With regards to Shearer, he was top scorer at Euro 96 and is the Premier Leagues all time leading goal scorer. He won the Premier League too and would obviously walk into the centre-forward position at any of the top four clubs today. Him and Friedel aren't comparable...

[Batman.]

I guess you need to ask a Premier League manager the same question cock.

If you're referring to me, then suggesting that a good fitness record should be a consideration when discussing the greatest players then I look forward to reading your case in hand for Jeff Kenna, Brett Emerton, and Ray Parlour being included in such lists.

Apologies to everybody else if my names don't make this suggestion look nearly ridiculous enough. Must try harder Gord.

[Stuart]

Objectively, he was better than Friedel.

It's hard to say definitively. Van Der Sar had a far better calibre of players in front of him than Van Der Sar.

When he and Brad were at comparable clubs, Fulham and Rovers respectively, Brad won the League Cup and Edwin won the Intertoto Cup.

For me the outfield players, particularly the defence can reduce how often a keeper is called upon - as is the case with Van Der Sar and reduce the potential for fatigue, injury, and errors.

The argument seems to follow that because Friedel didn't play for Ajax or Manchester United, he wasn't as good. There are plenty of reasons why that might be.

Surprised really to read some of the posts on here which are tantamount to football snobbery. And from Rovers fans!

[darrenrover]

Very selective Stuart, I'm pretty sure I explained my thoughts in the post.

To summarise, Friedel was a good keeper amongst his current day contempories but not great by any stretch. Having said that we're now drawing comparisons with Hart for example, who's not fit to put on Friedel's gloves IMO.

It's an irrelevance who he played for, just an educated opinion based on Brad's ability.

[Silencio]

It's hard to say definitively. Van Der Sar had a far better calibre of players in front of him than Van Der Sar.

When he and Brad were at comparable clubs, Fulham and Rovers respectively, Brad won the League Cup and Edwin won the Intertoto Cup.

For me the outfield players, particularly the defence can reduce how often a keeper is called upon - as is the case with Van Der Sar and reduce the potential for fatigue, injury, and errors.

The argument seems to follow that because Friedel didn't play for Ajax or Manchester United, he wasn't as good. There are plenty of reasons why that might be.

Surprised really to read some of the posts on here which are tantamount to football snobbery. And from Rovers fans!

So I should just say Friedel was better because I'm a Rovers fan? There are plenty of keepers who looked great stopping shot after shot for smaller teams but when they step up to the top and have less shots to save that is when you see the best. Taibi was an amazing shot stopper in Serie A but he flunked at both AC Milan and United when the pressure was on.

We'll never really know if Friedel would have done the same. He was great for Rovers, the best keeper we've had but I couldn't seriously suggest he's one of the best 10 players there have been in the Premier League. I'd say he was possibly the best goalkeeper for a couple of seasons of it and that's good enough for me. I think Van Der Sar was better all round if I'm honest, as was Schmeichel. We could argue all day but it doesn't change that both of those have won a lot more.

If we follow your logic then top teams don't really need good goalkeepers. We know this is nonsense because teams like Bayern and Juventus make it a policy to but the best goalkeeper in their country, even if they might have less to do than other keepers once they have bought them...

[den]

Unbelievable Stuart.

So Batman is saying that if Friedel had joined Man Utd for the last three seasons or so, that would mean he would have improved above what he was at Ewood?

Why do some people rely on stats, rather than their own judgements about "any" player?

[thenodrog]

Unbelievable Stuart.

So Batman is saying that if Friedel had joined Man Utd for the last three seasons or so, that would mean he would have improved above what he was at Ewood?

Why do some people rely on stats, rather than their own judgements about "any" player?

'Championship Manager' more like Den. Half of this lot prob don't like to watch a real game cos it's a lot colder than their bedrooms...... mind you as I get older I'm coming around to that way of thinking myself .

[rigger]

Having been a goalkeeper at a reasonably high standard myself, I would comment as:

Brad Friedel was ok no more, great pro, shot stopper, one on ones, crap at catching crosses ditto all others in recent times IMO.

The only outstanding keeper in the past 25 years is Schmichael IMO. The only other to come close is Shay Given.

My iconic keeper was Roger Jones.

I once baby-sat for Roger Jones, what a legend. I could not help myself, I had to put on his England under 21 cap.

[Silencio]

Unbelievable Stuart.

So Batman is saying that if Friedel had joined Man Utd for the last three seasons or so, that would mean he would have improved above what he was at Ewood?

Why do some people rely on stats, rather than their own judgements about "any" player?

Batman's saying that he wouldn't put Friedel in the top ten Premier League players of all time. What's so outrageous about that, Den? He was a great goalie for us but only one of our players could be considered in that list, Shearer. That's based on judgement of the player and the stats. Duff, Friedel, Hendry etc could have been considered in a few teams of the seasons but of all time? When you are looking at all time lists then the medals/stats are what make the distinction, are they not?

[Salgado Is A Hero]

Salgado? Maybe if you counted his Real Madrid form but there are loads of right backs who've been better than he was in the Premier League.

Back to goalkeepers, Brad was the best keeper I ever saw at Rovers and was possibly World Class around 2002 if you looked at how he played in the World Cup. But, Van der Sar won the Champions League in his early 20's at Ajax and was the only was class for United. Lots of United fans will tell you that he was as good as Schmeichel. He was also one of the first truly modern keepers in that he could play with either foot.

Objectively, he was better than Friedel.

With regards to Shearer, he was top scorer at Euro 96 and is the Premier Leagues all time leading goal scorer. He won the Premier League too and would obviously walk into the centre-forward position at any of the top four clubs today. Him and Friedel aren't comparable...

I was being slightly biased but I don't want to put in Zabaleta yet as it's a bit too early. Then again Hughes signed him so he has been here a while. The best two RBs I remember are Neville and just realised I should have had Finnan as I thought he was Northern Irish.

I wasn't comparing Friedel to Shearer at all. Batman was taking into account teams played for and medals won when judging a player and I noted that if you did this with Shearer he wouldn't be classed as a great.

[M-K]

He was great for Rovers, the best keeper we've had but I couldn't seriously suggest he's one of the best 10 players there have been in the Premier League.

Too right. No way could Rovers ever have held on to one of the "all time greats" for that long.

If Friedel was that sort of standard, any number of giant clubs would have snapped him up. But he went to Aston Villa.

[den]

Batman's saying that he wouldn't put Friedel in the top ten Premier League players of all time. What's so outrageous about that, Den? He was a great goalie for us but only one of our players could be considered in that list, Shearer. That's based on judgement of the player and the stats. Duff, Friedel, Hendry etc could have been considered in a few teams of the seasons but of all time? When you are looking at all time lists then the medals/stats are what make the distinction, are they not?

I wasn't arguing that point at all Silencio.

[Batman.]

Batman's saying that he wouldn't put Friedel in the top ten Premier League players of all time. What's so outrageous about that, Den? He was a great goalie for us but only one of our players could be considered in that list, Shearer. That's based on judgement of the player and the stats. Duff, Friedel, Hendry etc could have been considered in a few teams of the seasons but of all time? When you are looking at all time lists then the medals/stats are what make the distinction, are they not?

Exactly.

Also den, yes, had Friedel have joined United for the last three seasons of his career, performed at the level he did for us and contributed to them winning top trophies, this would have increased his reputation and the level he was performing at. Why? Because, for the one millionth time, it is harder to produce your top form at the big clubs, when under constant pressure. It's why so few make it at the big clubs.

Which part of my argument are you struggling to come to terms with?

[Majiball]

pele never played for a big club.

[Reedy You're A Star]

Neither did Bobby Moore

[den]

Exactly.

Also den, yes, had Friedel have joined United for the last three seasons of his career, performed at the level he did for us and contributed to them winning top trophies, this would have increased his reputation and the level he was performing at. Why? Because, for the one millionth time, it is harder to produce your top form at the big clubs, when under constant pressure. It's why so few make it at the big clubs.

Which part of my argument are you struggling to come to terms with?

We're not talking about his reputation or the level he was performing at, are we? We're talking about how good of a keeper he was. So few keepers make it at the big clubs? Well obviously. That's because they only have one keeper and when they find one, they stick with them. Man U were never going to sign Friedel when they had Schmeichel were they? He was at United for 8 years, so they weren't looking for anyone. Schmeichel was probably the best keeper in the world at that time. Same goes for most, if not all of the top clubs. That's no reflection of Friedels ability at all.

Tell me Batman, how many times did you watch Friedel in the flesh - at Liverpool, rovers, Aston villa or spurs? What did you think of his displays?

Neither did Bobby Moore

Or Gordon Banks.

[Majiball]

Friedel kept lloris on the bench for most of last year to the point he was complaining about it (Lloris) not bad considering Lloris is meant to be one of the best keepers in europe and Brad is 50 odd now. Could he have made it at a united or similar? We'll never know for certain but doing what he did last year with Spuds, I think he might just have done so.

[Silencio]

Tell me Batman, how many times did you watch Friedel in the flesh - at Liverpool, rovers, Aston villa or spurs? What did you think of his displays?

I don't really understand what you're getting at here, Den. So I'll answer too. I saw him play every home game and a few away. He was the best I'd seen since I started going in 87/89. But I still wouldn't put him in the top 10 players to have played in the Premier League. He'd be in the top 10 goalies to have done, though...

Friedel kept lloris on the bench for most of last year to the point he was complaining about it (Lloris) not bad considering Lloris is meant to be one of the best keepers in europe and Brad is 50 odd now. Could he have made it at a united or similar? We'll never know for certain but doing what he did last year with Spuds, I think he might just have done so.

You're wrong there. Lloris played loads more and was a good reason for their form as he lets them press higher up the pitch. That's no slight on Friedel though, he's getting on a bit now!

[yoda]

Anyone who has watched the Rovers for long enough knows that Sir Roger Jones is the best keeper we have had in living memory

[Salgado Is A Hero]

Majiball was right, it was a while before Lloris became first choice. Players like Assou-Ekotto even came out and said it was right Friedel was still No. 1 because he'd earn't it.

And it was the top 20 players, not top 10. Nobody would have him in the top 10.

7th October 2012, an article saying Friedel's consecutive appearance record was over. But I remember Friedel playing again after that, before Lloris then became permanent number 1.

"Friedel has been in imperious form for Tottenham this term, with his stand-out performance coming against Norwich last month when he almost single-handedly stopped the Londoners from slipping to defeat."

The 2nd highest rated comment on that article was -

"Why??????????"

[Rover_Shaun]

I was surprised Vad Der Saar went to United as I considered him to be fairly pish, gaffe prone and past it at Fulham. Seems some keepers thrive behind a better defence when they have less to do.