[Archived] The Gary Bowyer Thread

[K-Hod]

Simple for me, if you want to go fine- good on you, I'll see you there.

If you don't, for whatever reason, then don't, plenty of reasons are valid- distance from the stadium/financial considerations/perceived value for money/lack of faith in club/manager/structure etc.

[Leonard Venkhater]

Simple for me, if you want to go fine- good on you, I'll see you there.

If you don't, for whatever reason, then don't, plenty of reasons are valid- distance from the stadium/financial considerations/perceived value for money/lack of faith in club/manager/structure etc.

But it is oh so much more complicated than that.

It doesn't take a degree in empathy to imagine how someone might care very deeply about the club, but still choose not to buy a season ticket.

Call it the delusion/illusion of control. Call it cutting off your nose to spite your face, but please don't call it disloyalty!

The sooner some posters (I don't mean you, K-Hod) learn to find it within themselves to allow others to choose a different response to their own, without feeling challenged or threatened, the better

.

Like Parson and others, I saw the lows in the late sixties and seventies, but this is completely different. Who within the club now cares one tenth, as much as some of those, who are saying they won't renew? Is there anyone within the club, who actually gives a damn?

Going back to the 70's we trusted that Bill Bancroft, Bill Fox and Derek Keighley had the club's interests at heart.

Did all the filth really get swept out with Kean et al ? Just a few months ago, in a discussion about the destination of any potential JR transfer fee, some posters made allegations that all was not as it should be.

Is there no escape? Every time I read about FIFA, my mind always turns to the -er -"goings on" at the club I love.

Given that so many of our enemies are invisible, I guess the anger has to go somewhere.

Personally,I make it a policy not to turn it onto others who have also been hurt by spivs, PR men and deceivers!

[onlyonejackwalker]

But it is oh so much more complicated than that.

It doesn't take a degree in empathy to imagine how someone might care very deeply about the club, but still choose not to buy a season ticket.

Call it the delusion/illusion of control. Call it cutting off your nose to spite your face, but please don't call it disloyalty!

The sooner some posters (I don't mean you, K-Hod) learn to find it within themselves to allow others to choose a different response to their own, without feeling challenged or threatened, the better

.

Like Parson and others, I saw the lows in the late sixties and seventies, but this is completely different. Who within the club now cares one tenth, as much as some of those, who are saying they won't renew? Is there anyone within the club, who actually gives a damn?

Going back to the 70's we trusted that Bill Bancroft, Bill Fox and Derek Keighley had the club's interests at heart.

Did all the filth really get swept out with Kean et al ? Just a few months ago, in a discussion about the destination of any potential JR transfer fee, some posters made allegations that all was not as it should be.

Is there no escape? Every time I read about FIFA, my mind always turns to the -er -"goings on" at the club I love.

Given that so many of our enemies are invisible, I guess the anger has to go somewhere.

Personally,I make it a policy not to turn it onto others who have also been hurt by spivs, PR men and deceivers!

Hi LV. Glad to see you back. Well said. It's like no other time we have witnessed before. Even in the dark days of crowds of five thousand we still believed.

[TBTF]

Good post.

I don't see how anyone can criticised now because the people who are left are the ones who've stuck with the club through the absolute farce of Venkys reign so they are obviously true supporters. Of course helped by the ST prices but we've all seen the club that took 20 years and tens of millions to build be dismantled almost overnight yet a decent core has stuck with it.

Now those true supporters are seeing phase 2 of the regression kicking in and it's obvious those up top don't give a @#/?. Whilst a lot of people within the club will have it at heart and will do their best an awful lot don't. Also those mentioned, well their best isn't even touching the sides of previous better qualified minds and bodies. The whole set up is taking the shape of a league one club with only the owners somehow funding it to keep it at the level it's at.

Positive actions are what's needed to try and stop the hardcore fanbase from shrinking even more. Those on the gravy train who can see it happening won't do anything about it though for fear of their train stopping at the next station and them being turfed off. We are in complete limbo, there's nothing on the horizon so no wonder fans are fed up with it. It isn't really a result of just last season but the past 4 and a half years that a lot are just going to give up it seems.

You make an interesting point about phase 2.

The majority of fans I am sure don't boil it down to putting income back into the club. It has been and still is being spewed at an alarming rate and the owners continue to remain silent and wallow in their wealth. So that angle means that side of it is pretty futile for most fans and the numbers are so scary that it actually makes no difference .The entire ST income this Summer will go almost entirely on paying Leon Best so whats the point.??

So at micro level its not about the players or the manager individually for me. They are a result of what we have become .

But its the complete bloody indifference, neglect and two fingers that the owners put up to the fans which royally p1sses me off more than anything and being stuck in a vacuum indefinitely is what I am battling with myself to come to terms with.

No idea at this moment whether I will renew probably will come the season start but have no enthusiasm whatsoever. I almost feel I am doing it to maintain the chain from generations of my family. Its like buying first day issues of stamps without any interest in stamp collecting!!!

[Mike Graham]

Has GB gone yet?

[LewisF]

Has GB gone yet?

Not yet. We're working on it

[Rover_Shaun]

Glen Keeley - These days there seems to be a lot of chopping and changing, but whats wrong with playing your best team week in and week out?"

Nail, hammer, head

Gary Bowyer - plans to use versatile midfielders Jason Lowe and Ben Marshall as cover for Henley.

Nail, hammer, thumb

[Athlete]

Glen Keeley - These days there seems to be a lot of chopping and changing, but whats wrong with playing your best team week in and week out?"

Nail, hammer, head

Gary Bowyer - plans to use versatile midfielders Jason Lowe and Ben Marshall as cover for Henley.

Nail, hammer, thumb

Also he's no plans to replace Baptiste ...

BOWYER OUT VENKY'S OUT

[martonrover]

Has GB gone yet?

No, the 'honourable' Gary is fine tuning his tombola machine for next season.

August can wait.

[tomphil]

Glen Keeley - These days there seems to be a lot of chopping and changing, but whats wrong with playing your best team week in and week out?"

Nail, hammer, head

Gary Bowyer - plans to use versatile midfielders Jason Lowe and Ben Marshall as cover for Henley.

Nail, hammer, thumb

I must admit reading that about the right back situation, which clearly DID NOT work last season and hampered us a bit has got be boiling again in regards to Bowyer. This is what we are up against with this guy and it's something I'd hoped we'd be moving away from next season, needlessly rotating about but that's his method it seems.

[Parsonblue]

Henley played well enough at the end of the last campaign to start the new season as first choice right-back. With the restrictions on squad size, wages and signings that the embargo imposes it seems sensible not to sign another full-back at this point. Lowe and Marshall are decent cover and Nyambe should be pushing for a place in the senior squad as the season goes on. If we could off load the likes of Kean and Morris it would give us more scope to add to the squad.

[mustard]

Henley played well enough at the end of the last campaign to start the new season as first choice right-back. With the restrictions on squad size, wages and signings that the embargo imposes it seems sensible not to sign another full-back at this point. Lowe and Marshall are decent cover and Nyambe should be pushing for a place in the senior squad as the season goes on. If we could off load the likes of Kean and Morris it would give us more scope to add to the squad.

Relying on Lowe and Marshall as cover is farcical and you should know that Parson. I've explained my reasoning in the transfer talk thread, but playing players out of position is an easy route to mistakes and dropping points. We've got some room for manoeuvrability with our squad places and should thus be looking to recruit in the areas we are most desperate. Considering we have only one recognised right back (who is injury prone) I'd say this is a position we are desperately short of cover. Whilst Bowyer might love playing Marshall out of position, it does no good for the team.

It's no use starting the season with a massively imbalanced squad AGAIN.

[Tom]

Lowe is adequate as cover at right back.

May be hard to master but for me full back is the easiest position on the pitch to be steady enough in

[mustard]

Lowe is adequate as cover at right back.

May be hard to master but for me full back is the easiest position on the pitch to be steady enough in

Steady is one thing, but it still leaves the team slightly weaker.

[Rover_Shaun]

Jack of all trades. Master of none.

It seems we have too many of the latter these days....throughout the whole club

[tomphil]

Lowe is adequate as cover at right back.

May be hard to master but for me full back is the easiest position on the pitch to be steady enough in

Can't agree on that at all, the lad himself does his best and certain games you'll get away with it but soon enough teams target that weak spot. Overall it imbalances an already shaky back line, something we should really be working towards resolving not just leaving as it is.

[Rover_Shaun]

Just look at Phil Jones. He's allowed himself to become a Jack of all trades and now he's the master of none. He's destined to go the same way as John O'Shea but with 3 times the talent. Shame. He should have ruled the world as a Centre Back

Teams are more successful with round pegs in round holes with round pegs as backups

[RevidgeBlue]

Having Lowe and Marshall as occasional cover for Henley in case of injury is fine imo. Rotating them all on a constant basis as GB has tended to do with the rest of the side is not.

If Henley stays fit we have to give him his head and hopes he nails a place down. On that basis don't see RB as a real priority.

We have 3 priority positions to sort out currently imo, central midfield, central midfield and central midfield. I'm not even sure GB will see that as a real priority either now we have Lower's "magnificent energy" back.

That is of course on the assumption that Rhodes and Gestede stay, if both were to leave then the striking positions would become even more of a priority than the midfield as the prospect of going into the season with Best Brown and Varney would be unthinkable.

On that basis, RB is right towards the bottom of the list of priorities imo.

[blueboy3333]

Relying on Lowe and Marshall as cover is farcical and you should know that Parson. I've explained my reasoning in the transfer talk thread, but playing players out of position is an easy route to mistakes and dropping points. We've got some room for manoeuvrability with our squad places and should thus be looking to recruit in the areas we are most desperate. Considering we have only one recognised right back (who is injury prone) I'd say this is a position we are desperately short of cover. Whilst Bowyer might love playing Marshall out of position, it does no good for the team.

It's no use starting the season with a massively imbalanced squad AGAIN.

Farcical? A bit of an overreaction, Marshall and Lowe have both played well at full-back...full-back is not where we are most desperate. The player who cost us the most points last season was Hanley, and he was playing in his natural position. Henley will start at FB and if he gets injured a FB will be brought in on loan. Marshall and Lowe are cover, nothing more. Nyambe will also hopefully develop as the season progresses. Lots of teams have to play players out of position during the season, it isn't just at Rovers. Liverpool had Cam at FB last season, Jones has played FB for Utd, so has Young, Valencia was converted from a winger to a FB, etc etc etc and they have a lot more resources than we'll ever have. It happens. Olsson is a prime example. A figure of ridicule on here has just become our player of the season playing in a position that was alien to him before Bowyer moved him there.

The areas we really need to address are central midfield and up front (especially when either Rhodes or Rudy leave). A quick left-footed winger wouldn't go amiss either. The targeting of Austin suggests the midfield is already being looked at.

Anyway, who knows how pre-season will play out.

Out of interest how was the squad unbalanced last season?

[tomphil]

Forget comparisons to top Prem sides . Their squads usually have international quality players in every position. In the bread and butter bog standard league we are in players usually have one good foot or one strength they are good at. You can't have utility players to cover every position in the squad if you want a strong team on the park everyweek. Get people doing what they are good at and hopefully just a few good utility men for if needs be. Do we want player development of player confusion

[blueboy3333]

Forget comparisons to top Prem sides . Their squads usually have international quality players in every position. In the bread and butter bog standard league we are in players usually have one good foot or one strength they are good at. You can't have utility players to cover every position in the squad if you want a strong team on the park everyweek. Get people doing what they are good at and hopefully just a few good utility men for if needs be. Do we want player development of player confusion

marshall and Lowe have both played well at FB. They are only cover. There's no need for another FB to be brought in if Henley stays fit. if he doesn't then a full-back will be brought in on loan, hence the short-term phrase used by Bowyer.

Utility players are essential in a 'bog standard' league where clubs can't afford international quality players in every position, especially when there is a limit on the number of players you can have in the squad.

I have no idea what 'player confusion' means.

[RevidgeBlue]

Interesting that we currently only have 20 senior players under contract. So if no-one were to leave and Lenihan and C. Taylor resign we'd only have 2 places need filling and not much room for manoeuvre or change.

Conversely if those two leave plus Gestede and Rhodes say then we would be down to just 18 players and whilst maybe not quite down to Blackpool's situation last season, certainly left with an absolute mountain to climb, just to survive probably.

I think this shows that we need to do our utmost to hang on to Rhodes and Gestede. Also highlights the fact that we can ill afford any passengers in the squad either who don't know where the net is or can't be arsed and don't want to be here like Brown, Varney and Best respectively. We desperately need to offload at least one of those 3 and bring in a reasonable replacement imo.

If Lenihan and C. Taylor both resign then one area I would be tempted to do a bit of trading in to free up a squad space is to sell Marshall and give us a bit more room for manoeuvre.

[Mercer]

I'm not falling out with gumboots or anyone but simply saying that those of us of a certain generation who, for the past 50 odd years - and some much longer - have supported the club through good times and bad struggle to understand some of the reasoning that is being given for not following the club. As I said, I'm old school, no doubt old fashioned, out of date and the rest of it. The Rovers are my local club - and I've followed them from childhood and simply followed a long family tradition. If people think the price of a season ticket is too high then fair enough. However, I struggle to accept not following the club because of the manager, the players, the owners and the rest. Clubs like the Rovers go through lean periods and there is no doubt that this is a lean patch and likely to be so for some time to come. What I do object to is the fact that anyone who seems to post anything that is supportive of the club seems to incur the displeasure of a certain clique on here who seem to take great pleasure in knocking everything to do with Blackburn Rovers. If making snide remarks about the manager, certain players, officials and certain supporters is deemed acceptable then don't be surprised when some of us put the opposite viewpoint. Please feel free to put me on ignore if you find my views unacceptable.

Parsonblue - I'm pretty much like you, a 50ish year man, as are some of my Rover friends, however, we have no difficulty in understanding the apathy and alienation that many supporters now feel. I never, ever thought that I would feel so distanced from Rovers and so disinterested.

At the end of the day, football is an entertainments' business and fans want to savour the matchday occasion, feel entertained and enjoy a modicum of success.

Sadly, the matches I saw last season were utter dross. The club has lost its soul and its raison d'etre. IMV, the management from top to bottom is void of passion, charisma and competence.I think we are a 'dumbed down' club drifting dangerously and aimlessly. For too many employed by Rovers, it's a cushy and pressureless environment all sugared by a big pay cheque.

I therefore have every sympathy and understanding with those who have turned their back on Rovers and vent their anger and displeasure about what they see materialising.

You and some others may disagree but I believe as a credible football club with a future to look forward to, we are very sadly finished.

[Gav]

The vast majority of games under Allardyce were utter dross also mercer, but we had some decent players and a board that cared about the club and the town.

By now we all understand most posters points of view on the football club, the owners, the players and the manager, nothing new here really.

But what really counts is come 8th/9th August all those fans still turning up to support club be 110% behind the manager and the players, its a clean slate, it has to be.

Gary Bowyers blue and white army? well maybe not, but we're behind him and his players from day one, that should be a given

[tomphil]

marshall and Lowe have both played well at FB. They are only cover. There's no need for another FB to be brought in if Henley stays fit. if he doesn't then a full-back will be brought in on loan, hence the short-term phrase used by Bowyer.

Utility players are essential in a 'bog standard' league where clubs can't afford international quality players in every position, especially when there is a limit on the number of players you can have in the squad.

I have no idea what 'player confusion' means.

They've done ok in odd games in that position and that's it. Most games they've struggled especially against decent players. There was rightly an outcry on here when no RB was brought in last season then a bit of disgruntlement when Baps was brought in to play there. Just a couple of weeks into the season we ended up with Lowe at right back and Henley at left back away at Wolves. Baptiste (brought in to play RB) moved inside to pair with the hapless Hanley. Killa who can play left back on the bench. That's just a couple of weeks into the season, the next game all change again. How the hell is that supposed to be building a settled defence and base for the team to play from.

Moving them around every week creates confusion, there for all to see when balls were put in and everyone is anywhere but the position there supposed to be. No surprise to me if you failed to see this though eh