[Archived] The Gary Bowyer Thread

[Gav]

He must have been really small.

Or we must have been skint, or both

[JBiz]

Boro away last season was a terrible performance, everyone concerned thought so, Preston Blue went as said the same, the keeper had a brilliant day but the rest of the side was awful, daylight robbery.

If you think that was a good performance then we have different standards and Id certainly have to question the rest of your games based on that.

99% certain I watched 90 minutes of that game. Didn't go but was rovers player.

We definitely had a tough game I recall, losing Olsson early was worrying but Eastwood was brilliant, and rest of the defence played well(even baptiste as a RB ), I remember thinking Duffy would eventually become good because of his strength in the air and presence.- few mistakes from Hanley, can't recall any single one though so can't have been that bad?

Whilst we certainly rode our luck, I seem to recall either Jordan or Rudy hitting the bar in first half then Rudy almost scoring in last minute (like season before).

I'd count that played well personally. The result is often a big part of my overall summary on a game. Away at strong Boro side, out of form at the time, I would've been happy to take point before.

I haven't included any defeats in that list, whilst there may be times we've played well and lost- similarly to well and won/drawn.

[Gav]

You're getting points mixed up with performances I'd say.

How many games have we won and been absolutely abysmal? At home especially? Leeds springs to mind, they battered us and we mugged em, which was nice of course!

Many of the games you've mentioned are wins as you rightly point out, but wins don't mean good performances, standout performances, of which we’ve only had a handful in 2 seasons and a couple of those were because Premiership opposition that had been reduced to 10 men.

The point being in the main the football/performances both home and away have been poor, many reasons for that, but the buck stops with Bowyer, he's out of his depth, will never get us promoted and thats what we need, and quickly.

[Mike Graham]

99% certain I watched 90 minutes of that game. Didn't go but was rovers player.

We definitely had a tough game I recall, losing Olsson early was worrying but Eastwood was brilliant, and rest of the defence played well(even baptiste as a RB ), I remember thinking Duffy would eventually become good because of his strength in the air and presence.- few mistakes from Hanley, can't recall any single one though so can't have been that bad?

Whilst we certainly rode our luck, I seem to recall either Jordan or Rudy hitting the bar in first half then Rudy almost scoring in last minute (like season before).

I'd count that played well personally. The result is often a big part of my overall summary on a game. Away at strong Boro side, out of form at the time, I would've been happy to take point before.

I haven't included any defeats in that list, whilst there may be times we've played well and lost- similarly to well and won/drawn.

I went to the Boro away game and we were the pits. Completely outplayed for 94 minutes. Yes we got a point but the football was abysmal, similar to the sh!te served up for most of last season, unfortunately I can see it getting even worse in 2015/16.

[mustard]

Now "very good" is harder to define than you think. Whilst we may have only played out of our skin a handful of times, in the past 24 months I would count these games as ones we played "well" in;

2013/14

Derby Away, Bolton at Home, Barnsley at Home, Bournemouth away, Watford at home, Boro at home, Leeds at home, Millwall at home, Yeovil away, Leeds away, Boro away, Reading away, Hudds away, Watford away, QPR at home, Ipswich at home, Brum away, Charlton away and Wigan at home.

Out of them - real barnstorming performances - Bolton/Barnsley/Leeds/QPR/Ipswich and Wigan at home, Charlton, Bournemouth, Leeds, Boro, Reading, Hudds and Brum away.

2014/15

Good performances or "well played";

Cardiff, Bournemouth, Wigan, Watford Brum, Leeds, Charlton, Fulham, Rotherham, Bolton, Millwall and Ipswich at home

Blackpool, Fulham, Ipswich, Forest, Boro, Sheff wednesday, Charlton, Leeds away,

Barn stormers - Bouremouth at home, Wigan at home, Fulham away, forest away, leeds home and away and maybe one or two more (not including the stoke/swansea performances which where the best at home since 2010, and the liverpool away)

I will have also missed a few from memory and maybe got one or two games mixed up. I also make a habit of watching us on rovers player the week after we've played away, which gives a good insight into the difference in our performances, tactics and response away from Ewood.

Like Gav (and I'd imagine plenty others) I could pick holes in most of your assessments of good performances. I'd love to go through them all and see which ones I agee and disagree with but I'm off to play some football soon. Off the top of my head, there are a good few I disagree with.

Forgetting the season before last as my memory would certainly need jogging for most of these games. Found myself repressing more and more when it comes to Rovers under the Venky's. You cite Blackpool, Sheff Wed, Brum and plenty more as good performances. These were three games against poor sides where we barely scraped over the line, often relying on a Rhodes or Rudy goal against the run of play to get the win. Also the Blackpool and Wednesday home games were appalling. Both Boro games were full as dishwater and we were lucky to get a point from each. Bournemouth at home was great first half but it was a Jekyll and Hyde performance as we almost threw away the 3 points in the second half.

Fair play if you enjoyed all those games but I'd argue we were dull and lacking in passion in the majority of games I watched the last two seasons. I'd also say the strikers truly rescued far more points than we deserved due to being clinical and able to take their few chances when they came.

[LDRover]

Now "very good" is harder to define than you think. Whilst we may have only played out of our skin a handful of times, in the past 24 months I would count these games as ones we played "well" in;

2013/14

Derby Away, Bolton at Home, Barnsley at Home, Bournemouth away, Watford at home, Boro at home, Leeds at home, Millwall at home, Yeovil away, Leeds away, Boro away, Reading away, Hudds away, Watford away, QPR at home, Ipswich at home, Brum away, Charlton away and Wigan at home.

Out of them - real barnstorming performances - Bolton/Barnsley/Leeds/QPR/Ipswich and Wigan at home, Charlton, Bournemouth, Leeds, Boro, Reading, Hudds and Brum away.

2014/15

Good performances or "well played";

Cardiff, Bournemouth, Wigan, Watford Brum, Leeds, Charlton, Fulham, Rotherham, Bolton, Millwall and Ipswich at home

Blackpool, Fulham, Ipswich, Forest, Boro, Sheff wednesday, Charlton, Leeds away,

Barn stormers - Bouremouth at home, Wigan at home, Fulham away, forest away, leeds home and away and maybe one or two more (not including the stoke/swansea performances which where the best at home since 2010, and the liverpool away)

I will have also missed a few from memory and maybe got one or two games mixed up. I also make a habit of watching us on rovers player the week after we've played away, which gives a good insight into the difference in our performances, tactics and response away from Ewood.

Rotherham at home was a good performance? Blimey, it was appalling and I'm pretty sure if you go back and read the match thread that'll be the jist of it. Bolton and Millwall at home were shockers as well and as Gav said earlier we were poor but fortunate against Leeds.

Successful teams have a style of play and an identity (think Brentford, Norwich, Watford and Bournemouth last year, Burnley the year before) what would you say is our defined style of play?

[Gav]

I asked the question to try and work out if Jbizzle could be objective, balanced, and not just in total defence mode as I suspected.

Whilst I respect his opinion, I think he'd say just about anything to defend his position.

The vast majority of those games he mentions were absolutely dire from start to finish. Yes we walked off Ewood with points in the bag, but we often wondered how after such dire performances.

I tried, and as I say I respect you opinion Jbizzle, but most of those games were indeed rubbish, get ready for even worse this season as the dumbing down continues.

[Amo]

I'm pretty sure Bizzle just plucked a few games at random and hoped people had short memories.

[onlyonejackwalker]

Wow that's a heck of a lot of good games jb! Not how I saw things for sure.

Guess others simply didn't roll over for us though and came to win. Then again with our expenditure most should have been cannon fodder.

[JBiz]

Not at all top man, used the fixtures and results- whilst poorer performances with correct results where included on the basis that a win is a win. Defeats with decent performances or good halves are omitted by the same process. I can still think of a few halfs in particularly, where we performed but ultimately lost. Bolton away at Christmas as an example could have(should've!) been the best half we've played all season yet we still lost.

For me, that's the trouble. Whilst I agree that the blessing of strikers bagging has helped, I still see the consistency element of our all around play the trouble.

Someone asked me what his preferred style of play is. My answer would be "I don't know". Whilst that may be indicative of GBs failings, it doesn't mean I haven't seen us play well in a 442, 41212, 433 on the floor or in the air.

If you are taking into account the difference in players and opposition at this level- I think the expectations on performance should be different to what we'd have defined as "Barnstorning" back under a proper club structure. Before the systematic downgrading in quality, expertise and experience of every facet of the club- examples like the performances against Arsenal at home under big Sam, and United, FA Cup, many many more under Hughes come to mind.

Gav, I'm going to explain for the last time that I'm not trying to defend my views as you've said many times - if having a different view is just saying anything to "defend" your "position" then what's the point of even posting for me?

What's wrong with having a view? You can join the queue of people who probably think my expectations are much lower than 5 years ago after the catastrophe, but can you blame me really?

I agree with everyone who says they can be better, but I'm going to disagree with people who think and say that the "vast" majority of our performances for two years have been "dire from start to finish".

[onlyonejackwalker]

It has been dire jb. That's one of the reasons we've lost so many fans. I don't know how old you are but we've had teams that cost a fraction of the current shambles at this level that played with lasting spirit and courage, had flair, genuine pace in more than one position and proven quality at this level in key areas all over the pitch. It's all so slow and predictable. Pace urgently required upfront, outside, at full back, and in central defence. Like it's always been.

[Gav]

Gav, I'm going to explain for the last time that I'm not trying to defend my views as you've said many times - if having a different view is just saying anything to "defend" your "position" then what's the point of even posting for me?

What's wrong with having a view? You can join the queue of people who probably think my expectations are much lower than 5 years ago after the catastrophe, but can you blame me really?

I agree with everyone who says they can be better, but I'm going to disagree with people who think and say that the "vast" majority of our performances for two years have been "dire from start to finish".

As I've said more times that I really should have to, I respect your opinion jbizzle, I should have said it more because you've clearly missed it

Its my opinion that you're more interested in defending your position rather than actually looking at the situation with a balanced view. The reason I say this is simply because the vast majority of games you mentioned have been dire, not even ok, but dire.

I'm not falling out with you, I just thought i'd try and understand where you're coming from, but I failed.

[Pedro]

All the best teams I have seen down here over the past few years have played with high intensity and pressed the ball all over the park.

We're not only poor and without method when we have the ball we're the same without it.

Absolutely.

That, more than anything, drives me up the bloody wall!!!!

[Rover_Shaun]

So it's the world vs Jbizzle. Who's right?

Poll????

[JBiz]

Small brain mentality to think its anyone vs anyone else. End of the day I don't think we've done nearly as bad as some people are making out, and I'm welcome to that opinion.

[Parsonblue]

Small brain mentality to think its anyone vs anyone else. End of the day I don't think we've done nearly as bad as some people are making out, and I'm welcome to that opinion.

I couldn't agree more Jbizzle. Like you, there were any number of games last season that I enjoyed and whilst I would have liked to have finished in the top six I don't think we did too badly all things considered. As you say, everyone is entitled to their own opinion and that's what this messageboard use to reflect.

[Stuart]

I couldn't agree more Jbizzle. Like you, there were any number of games last season that I enjoyed and whilst I would have liked to have finished in the top six I don't think we did too badly all things considered. As you say, everyone is entitled to their own opinion and that's what this messageboard use to reflect.

ALL things considered we have wasted the last two seasons. Now that we are under embargo it's too late.

Make no mistake, parachute payments gave us a big advantage over other teams and we squandered it. I'm sure that over the coming months, being behind Hull, Burnley et al will be put down to the advantage they have in that regard.

One rule for us...

[ABBEY]

id say approx 80% Of the time everyone around said how @#/? and boring it was . One lad left most half times for the pub.

[mustard]

I couldn't agree more Jbizzle. Like you, there were any number of games last season that I enjoyed and whilst I would have liked to have finished in the top six I don't think we did too badly all things considered. As you say, everyone is entitled to their own opinion and that's what this messageboard use to reflect.

I enjoyed walking away when we had the points in the bag. I couldn't care less if we consistently won in an unfashionable manner, however consistency is the key. I remember plenty of games under Big Sam where we were on the backfoot throughout but managed to steal a win. Those were different times however, in a different league under a manager who had to utilise his limited resources to the best of his ability. This meant having to play in an unattractive manner to snag points from the big teams in this country. It was arguably the only way. Under Bowyer however, we are woefully inconsistent and there were very few occasions where I felt we deservedly won the points. This isn't against the Arsenals and Uniteds of this world, but against lower league sides with a fraction of the quality and facilities available to Blackburn Rovers. From both the games where we took the points and the games where we didn't, I felt I didn't see enough in Bowyer and his backroom side to be confident going forward. This is taking into account fitness, tactics, player motivation, etc. As opposed to driving the team on and bettering them collectively, I felt Bowyer was carried by the strength of the team, particularly the front two, despite his glaring tactical errors often hindering us. I'm not saying Bowyer is a terrible manager, but if this club is going to stand any chance of survival then we NEED promotion. We needed a change of manager a year ago if we were ever going to achieve this and we still need it today. If you think Bowyer can learn from his failings over the last two seasons and be able to squeeze out even more from a depleted squad, then that's your prerogative.

[Leonard Venkhater]

I couldn't agree more Jbizzle. Like you, there were any number of games last season that I enjoyed and whilst I would have liked to have finished in the top six I don't think we did too badly all things considered. As you say, everyone is entitled to their own opinion and that's what this messageboard use to reflect.

Funny, isn't it? Perception, glass half empty or half full etc.I would say that the exciting, positive performances have been the exception. Indeed, even then,such performances have only been sustained for 45 minutes

I would say that there has been a pattern of lacklustre, pedestrian performances, where the team appears to have no method or plan.

[Stuart]

I enjoyed walking away when we had the points in the bag. I couldn't care less if we consistently won in an unfashionable manner, however consistency is the key. I remember plenty of games under Big Sam where we were on the backfoot throughout but managed to steal a win. Those were different times however, in a different league under a manager who had to utilise his limited resources to the best of his ability. This meant having to play in an unattractive manner to snag points from the big teams in this country. It was arguably the only way. Under Bowyer however, we are woefully inconsistent and there were very few occasions where I felt we deservedly won the points. This isn't against the Arsenals and Uniteds of this world, but against lower league sides with a fraction of the quality and facilities available to Blackburn Rovers. From both the games where we took the points and the games where we didn't, I felt I didn't see enough in Bowyer and his backroom side to be confident going forward. This is taking into account fitness, tactics, player motivation, etc. As opposed to driving the team on and bettering them collectively, I felt Bowyer was carried by the strength of the team, particularly the front two, despite his glaring tactical errors often hindering us. I'm not saying Bowyer is a terrible manager, but if this club is going to stand any chance of survival then we NEED promotion. We needed a change of manager a year ago if we were ever going to achieve this and we still need it today. If you think Bowyer can learn from his failings over the last two seasons and be able to squeeze out even more from a depleted squad, then that's your prerogative.

The difference is that we knew what we were in the PL by the time Sam got here. We were the underdogs giving the big boys a bloody nose and that felt good.

Sadly Big Sam was they last time that we had any "feelgood".

[mustard]

The difference is that we knew what we were in the PL by the time Sam got here. We were the underdogs giving the big boys a bloody nose and that felt good.

Sadly Big Sam was they last time that we had any "feelgood".

Yeah that's what I was trying to say (in a longwinded fashion). Back then it was exciting. Now however, we need to assert ourselves on games to be successful in this league. Our style of play doesn't bring out the best in the team nor the front two. These last two seasons, I'd say we were lucky to have two strikers who could grab a goal even when the team was playing poorly. I have no confidence in Bowyer improving the football nor the results.

[Stuart]

Yeah that's what I was trying to say (in a longwinded fashion). Back then it was exciting. Now however, we need to assert ourselves on games to be successful in this league. Our style of play doesn't bring out the best in the team nor the front two. These last two seasons, I'd say we were lucky to have two strikers who could grab a goal even when the team was playing poorly. I have no confidence in Bowyer improving the football nor the results.

The excitement was more the occasion and the context rather than the performance. I often found myself looking about Ewood wondering why it was so quiet. We did lose our voices a bit during that period and I'm not sure we've really recovered. Aside from ill feeling during Kean's time, we are back to noise only after a goal or a poor refereeing decision. Whereas under Hughes we had players with spark and after that first season of regrouping a lot more freedom to express. E.g. Bentley and Pedersen and that translated in a good atmosphere.

The reason Sam's games were good (aside from often a final whistle and three points in the bag - at least at home) was that he set the team up to get the ball into the boxer every opportunity - starting with Robbo's kicks. And that created chances. It would be very interesting to see our shots on and off target, and chances, by manager/season. I bet Sam's Rovers would be right up there.

[Parsonblue]

Funny, isn't it? Perception, glass half empty or half full etc.I would say that the exciting, positive performances have been the exception. Indeed, even then,such performances have only been sustained for 45 minutes

I would say that there has been a pattern of lacklustre, pedestrian performances, where the team appears to have no method or plan.

I must admit that what I found curious about last season was that some of our better performances came away from home. We seemed to play with greater freedom for some reason.

[Amo]

Most of our best performances last season came when there was nothing to lose and our manager couldn't settle for a point.