[Archived] The Gary Bowyer Thread

[Amo]

If fans continue to lose patience, I think we'll see more of Bowyer's nasty side coming out. He might be boring as dry toast most of the time, but last season he got a little shirty with fans and moaned about the atmosphere.

[ABBEY]

Without fans he's no effing job

[mustard]

Do you think GB is on a %age of player sales mustard? That's the only explanation I can give to his bizarre indifference to Rhodes' potential departure. In fact he seems to be finding it a struggle to stay on the side of indifferent.

I'm fairly sure Holloway was on a similar deal at Blackpool when he was there. Presumably a reward for unearthing cheap players and selling them at a big profit. But we've seen what happened to them. Recipe for disaster.

It's all conjecture so I wouldn't rule it in or out. Some have suggested it's standard practice for managers to receive a % so if he was receiving a cut on profit made on players, I guess it wouldn't be surprising, considering the constant talk of player values and, as you say, his indifference (at best) to losing his best players for big money, despite being under an embargo.

If he's not on a % of sales, I'd say his job position is firmly based on his ability to turn profit on players. It's why he's been given free reign, despite falling short on what should be our required goals each season.

Some people relate our situation to other mid-table Championship clubs, yet truly fail to realise how unique our situation is in comparison. Some people, particularly commenters on the LT, still seem to think we are in 'transition' and that Bowyer is turning things around and rebuilding, stressing patience is needed. They couldn't be further from reality IMO.

With the size of the our facilities (Ewood and Academy), coupled with the fact we have incompetents at boardroom level, it is IMPOSSIBLE for us to 'balance the books' by relying on player trading. Venky's should have sussed this by now. Promotion is the ONLY way out of this financial sh1tstorm of a situation we are in, which is why I am (almost) surprised they have persevered with Bowyer for so long. GB alone has cost them millions in his failings these last two seasons, and until promotion is achieved, every season is a failure IMO.

[tomphil]

If fans continue to lose patience, I think we'll see more of Bowyer's nasty side coming out. He might be boring as dry toast most of the time, but last season he got a little shirty with fans and moaned about the atmosphere.

True he certainly didn't like it when people began to question him and his comfort zone got shook up a bit. There was a definite and snidey change in his attitude briefly which very quickly turned the self preservation, every excuse under the sun mode that drew comparisons to coco. Always thought he was very open and honest before that but there was a glimpse of maybe what he really thinks there and what he's all about really.

May well have just been his inexperience of those situations coming out. I think we'll see more of a thick skinned approach from now on as he realises it's part of any managers job to get some stick. Not sure how he'll cope if we end up with the toxic atmosphere again !

[broadsword]

I was criticised on here when I mentioned something I heard from a friend who works in the football industry. He told me that both Shaw and Bowyer will gain financially if Rhodes is sold. This emerged following on from the contract extension for Rhodes last summer which seemed strange at the time given that Rhodes still had a couple of years left.

And so things start to become clearer ...

[RevidgeBlue]

It's all conjecture so I wouldn't rule it in or out. Some have suggested it's standard practice for managers to receive a % so if he was receiving a cut on profit made on players, I guess it wouldn't be surprising, considering the constant talk of player values and, as you say, his indifference (at best) to losing his best players for big money, despite being under an embargo.

If he's not on a % of sales, I'd say his job position is firmly based on his ability to turn profit on players. It's why he's been given free reign, despite falling short on what should be our required goals each season.

Some people relate our situation to other mid-table Championship clubs, yet truly fail to realise how unique our situation is in comparison. Some people, particularly commenters on the LT, still seem to think we are in 'transition' and that Bowyer is turning things around and rebuilding, stressing patience is needed. They couldn't be further from reality IMO.

With the size of the our facilities (Ewood and Academy), coupled with the fact we have incompetents at boardroom level, it is IMPOSSIBLE for us to 'balance the books' by relying on player trading. Venky's should have sussed this by now. Promotion is the ONLY way out of this financial sh1tstorm of a situation we are in, which is why I am (almost) surprised they have persevered with Bowyer for so long. GB alone has cost them millions in his failings these last two seasons, and until promotion is achieved, every season is a failure IMO.

I wouldn't have thought it was "standard practice" although it may happen in the odd instance. It's a clear conflict of interest imo the manager has to be the one fighting tooth and nail to keep your best players together no matter what otherwise the whole thing falls down. How can a player respond to a manager whose only interest is not in the team doing well, but in eventually moving them on. They'd have no incentive whatsoever to do anything other than put in the odd cameo performance half a dozen times a season. Ooo......... errr hang on..............

People have consistently said on here Bowyer's remit is to move players in and out at a profit and I have consistently rubbished that notion as we're losing huge amounts of money season upon season notwithstanding the effect of any player sales. The way the Rhodes saga is playing out though I'm starting to wonder if the owners think GB's remit is promotion first and foremost AND make profit from player sales as a bonus if possible and GB simply isn't bothered about the first part as long as he can sell a few players and profit accordingly.

Might be a harsh view, but it certainly wouldn't be inconsistent with the lacklustre performance of both manager and players last season.

[Craigman]

I was criticised on here when I mentioned something I heard from a friend who works in the football industry. He told me that both Shaw and Bowyer will gain financially if Rhodes is sold. This emerged following on from the contract extension for Rhodes last summer which seemed strange at the time given that Rhodes still had a couple of years left.

With speculation that he will quit if both Gestede and Rhodes are sold, this would mean he makes a bit of money before he leaves, maybe this is why he is hanging on ?

[Roverall]

Revidge Blue gives credence to possible conspiracy theory.

In other news, the Rao family turn vegan and release 7 billion chicken from factory farms across Asia.

[T J Hooker]

Don't let the clickers best you ! Yes we argue but that was only common thing we have

I have little faith in bowyers when it comes to the most important side of being a manager(getting the tactics, starting 11 and player motivation right) but hes clearly going nowhere right now so i just thonk its best for the team to give them support on matchdays at the start of the season and save any ownership protests for after the match, though obviously if after a few games they carry on playing as dire as they have been under bowyer then naturally(hopfully!) the crowd will let them know its not good enpugh.

Also i think there's still a relatively long time to go in the transfer window so i prefer to just see how that pans out before getting all bothered, even if we do sell rhodes and/or gestede i still think its possible for us to get good replacement if we are savy enough in the loan and free transfer markets.

I dont think its the end of the world not having a 25-30 goal a season striker in your squad, if we can find a couple of 10-15 goal forwards, the rest of our attacking players start chipping in more with goals and we start conceding less we could still potentially do well-its all down to havinf a good manager(which we haven't had so far in this league) i think, not the technically the best players or goal scorer's (you only have to look at some of the teams that have been promoted in the lasy 10 years for proof of that)

[RibbleValleyRover]

“You look at the players we have spent money on, they have all increased in value and they are gaining experience, and they’re going to go on to become very, very good players, now hopefully we can keep hold of the main core of that young group and watch them flourish.”

Lancashire Telegraph - 1st Nov 2014 http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/11574274.Blackburn_Rovers_boss_Gary_Bowyer_putting_his_faith_in_youth

“I fully understood that when I took over,” he says. “We wanted to get in young, hungry players and if you look at the investment that we made – we spent just under £3 million on seven players. If you look at the value of those players now then you are talking a return of them of over £12-15 million. With my background in coaching, that is what I have always done – to improve players and push them and challenge them to aim for the highest level they can play at. It is part of being in the Championship.”

“We tried to stay out of it and take a sensible approach to managing a club, make sound investments, work really hard and try and reinvent the squad. I have turned over 24 players since I have been here, and generated something like £7 million in sales. At the same time we have concentrated on the football.”

The Telegraph - 6th March 2015 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/blackburn-rovers/11456204/Gary-Bowyer-looks-back-to-Blackburns-glory-years-for-inspiration.html

There are plenty others examples out there of Bowyer talking about increasing player value.

Now I don't think there is some financial conspiracy going on where certain individuals may profit from player sales at the club but with so much talk about increasing player value it is either a) Bowyer's defence mechanism to fend off any attacks about his on the pitch results whilst also sending a message to the owners that he is making the club money through his management and development of players or b ) that is the real remit, making money and results come second. I personally think it's more of the former than the latter.

Apart from the height of the Walker years we have always been a club that has bought cheap, try to develop a player to make a profit and then repeat. Difference between someone like a Hughes and a Bowyer is that Hughes made the club money but also delivered on the pitch, Bowyer hasn't.

[Stuart]

I'm not seeing it as a positive for bowyer Stuart thats the difference between me and you, it's not about defending or criticising the guy.

Reality tells me he's here for at least the start of this season so looking at how we may perform, the lack of expectation may lead to an improvement in results.

That's not me saying "we should stick with GB because"

Those discussions are pointless under this ownership as I've said many times.

That's like believing in fairies lest one might die. Lowered expectations can't lead to an improvement in results - with respect, that's just nuts. I'll have to assume that's not what you meant at all.

All it can do is lead to less disappointment when we lose. Maybe that's where we differ: I want to see Rovers pull out all the stops to succeed, not look for reasons to be cheerful when stops are being put up all over the place. It just feels like one almighty shrug.

[JBiz]

That's like believing in fairies lest one might die. Lowered expectations can't lead to an improvement in results - with respect, that's just nuts. I'll have to assume that's not what you meant at all.

All it can do is lead to less disappointment when we lose. Maybe that's where we differ: I want to see Rovers pull out all the stops to succeed, not look for reasons to be cheerful when stops are being put up all over the place. It just feels like one almighty shrug.

Less grumbling from a miss placed pass etc - players tend to shine in situations where the pressure of expectation is low.

How else would you explain our defensive display at Anfield when you are convinced that GB is so inept?

[roverandout]

Not much to crow about Bolton held them out for most of the game in the previous round (I know it was at the reebok)

[Stuart]

Less grumbling from a miss placed pass etc - players tend to shine in situations where the pressure of expectation is low.

How else would you explain our defensive display at Anfield when you are convinced that GB is so inept?

Two words: Shop window.

[Athlete]

IMHO GB is either on slight % or his actual remit is to increase player value not to go for promotion

Shelfy despite him not coming across as the brightess tool in the box has a lot of connections via agents and certain north west based football people

There was obviously something slightly rogue last year with the hull bid until the Rao's vetoed it but that stance seems to now have changed for one reason or another

We won't move on as a club until Venky's Go followed by the whole board and management structure at Ewood

[martonrover]

IMHO GB is either on slight % or his actual remit is to increase player value not to go for promotion

Shelfy despite him not coming across as the brightess tool in the box has a lot of connections via agents and certain north west based football people

There was obviously something slightly rogue last year with the hull bid until the Rao's vetoed it but that stance seems to now have changed for one reason or another

We won't move on as a club until Venky's Go followed by the whole board and management structure at Ewood

Regarding your first point, I've had my suspicions ever since 'protecting the point' at home to Yeovil a couple of seasons ago and the continuing trend to be negative against poorer sides.

As others have said, we need to start afresh with different personnel at all ownership and management levels.

[joey_big_nose]

All this "Bowyer does not want to get promoted" is total rubbish. Not good enough to get promoted maybe, but he is not some Machiavellian genius who can get us just outside the playoffs every year. The illogical nonsense on here is amazing sometimes.

Also, and in an ideal world I would prefer a different manager to get a shake, as we have an incompetent board and owners and no money I would say it is extremely important to hold onto Bowyer. Looks like we are going through a huge squad turnover and the one thread of continuity will be Bowyer.

If we sell Rhodes, Gestede, Marshall and Hanley - who have all now been linked to moves - we need Bowyer to try and stitch a team that can stay up together from squad players, trialists and youth. If he goes too no man in his right mind is going to take over a club in with no opportunity to bring in players, disengaging owners and seemingly on the brink of folding. Nor do I see anyone doing much better than Bowyer in that terrible situation. Far more likely we would appoint some mediocre no mark who has little idea of the total dysfunction of the club top to bottom and we go into free fall.

It could get so bad we look fondly back at the days of Bowyer, just as now we do at Allardyce's tenure.

The big issue here is not GB, it is Venkys and the Board they have appointed.

[ABBEY]

Yeovil match stunk as much as Spurs away under @#/?

[den]

All this "Bowyer does not want to get promoted" is total rubbish. Not good enough to get promoted maybe, but he is not some Machiavellian genius who can get us just outside the playoffs every year. The illogical nonsense on here is amazing sometimes.

Also, and in an ideal world I would prefer a different manager to get a shake, as we have an incompetent board and owners and no money I would say it is extremely important to hold onto Bowyer. Looks like we are going through a huge squad turnover and the one thread of continuity will be Bowyer.

If we sell Rhodes, Gestede, Marshall and Hanley - who have all now been linked to moves - we need Bowyer to try and stitch a team that can stay up together from squad players, trialists and youth. If he goes too no man in his right mind is going to take over a club in with no opportunity to bring in players, disengaging owners and seemingly on the brink of folding. Nor do I see anyone doing much better than Bowyer in that terrible situation. Far more likely we would appoint some mediocre no mark who has little idea of the total dysfunction of the club top to bottom and we go into free fall.

It could get so bad we look fondly back at the days of Bowyer, just as now we do at Allardyce's tenure.

The big issue here is not GB, it is Venkys and the Board they have appointed.

In the words of Bowyer and Kean - results aren't the only thing to be judged on, the players VALUES are also a sign of success. Repeat weekly.

Coincidence that both COACHES say this?

[JBiz]

Yeovil match stunk as much as Spurs away under @#/?

You know this for a fact? Haha.

Come on though, if you think that GB is a genius who's main job is to raise player values and avoid promotion- I'd suggest therapy.

Remember, the way the clubs entire value goes up including players through promotion.

In the words of Bowyer and Kean - results aren't the only thing to be judged on, the players VALUES are also a sign of success. Repeat weekly.

Coincidence that both COACHES say this?

[perthblue02]

You know this for a fact? Haha.

Come on though, if you think that GB is a genius who's main job is to raise player values and avoid promotion- I'd suggest therapy.

Remember, the way the clubs entire value goes up including players through promotion.

You know which drug causes paranoia and short term memory loss?

Just out of interest would The Rao's and Desais have to undergo the buy us lunch and your in test 'with the Premier League again (yes I know hypothetical question), considering there are no FA friendly advisors and business partners greasing palms and smoothing the way now (apparently)

As for avoiding promotion, that is silly he's just seems not currently good enough to mould a squad or tactically aware enough to achieve it, who knows in 678 transfer windows it may change,

Main job increasing player values, well he certainly talks about it enough so who knows if that is the requisite that got him the job and for keeping it as its pretty obvious that results and getting promotion are not important on the scale of success.

[joey_big_nose]

In the words of Bowyer and Kean - results aren't the only thing to be judged on, the players VALUES are also a sign of success. Repeat weekly.

Coincidence that both COACHES say this?

Why is that surprising? He is trying to hold onto his job. He failed in his main objective - getting promoted - and is scratching around for reasons that will resonate with the owners so he is not sacked.

The owners likely directly set out that they want to see player values rising. He is saying he achieved that, even if he did not get promotion.

[martonrover]

Venky's are the disease, Bowyer is a symptom but is not devoid of all blame having been allowed to bring in a huge number of players.

He's also had the benefit of fantastic facilities at Brockhall and of effectively being his own Chairman.

Should have taken a leaf out of the previous Norwich manager's book and honourably resigned.

Only interested in self preservation, had a good few pops at the supporters and blatantly more concerned with avoiding defeat than winning.

Responsible for some excruciatingly dull performances last season.

[tomphil]

Don't buy into the avoiding promotion he just hasn't any idea about how to go about achieving it and why would he, he's no experience of anything like that. So I think he plays on the plan B squad value thing which must certainly be in his remit from above. Despite what they say Venkys don't seem to want an all out promotion assault which is strange and I do think they all welcomed the embargo with open arms.

That said Bowyer doesn't seem to have anyone breathing down his neck, if he was under any pressure of that sort he'd soon crack I reckon. He said himself last season that the only people who would sack him would be the owners. A bit worrying that as it draws parallels with another mon

[Iceman]

Again, back then John Williams would sack a manager. Yet Our so called MD Shaw has no power, so what exactly does he do