[Archived] The Gary Bowyer Thread

[Amo]

Depends whether your entire expectation from day one has been promotion.

My expectation doesn't enter into it, I knew we wouldn't be promoted under Bowyer. He's shown that he cannot break the glass ceiling of the top six. That doesn't change the fact promotion was the objective, and that with those players at his disposal he should've done a whole lot better.

[JBiz]

Can't argue but that is expectation! The aim has been promotion for the fans but realistically I've never thought it would be easy with a squad put together through circumstances rather than design.

The players good enough to fire us up- cairney, Marshall, rhodes, Gestede.... Who else? 3/4 are signings that may have bought the club more time at this level as opposed to a shot at the one above.

I suppose this is my cue to point out how those who never saw it first hand, just don't know how desperate it got in 2013.

[Rover_Shaun]

Well we know the club's expected aim has always been promotion. It was stated before every season and Bowyer has already stated it's the aim for this season.

Mr G Bowyer in the Venkygraph 31/7/15 -
“With what we’ve had to contend with over the last two years, well, you don’t get that on a coaching course.”[/size]

Two years??

Year 1 - Signed a myriad of players. One of whom was £1m and spent about £3-4M knowing FFP was coming without being forced to trim any of the big earners or players he wanted to keep who were on big money

Year 2 - FFP hits but is still not blocked from signing anyone, loaning anyone and trialling anyone within the remit of FFP

So what has he had to contend with? Is he talking about 3rd party transfer in and out influence? Maybe team selection interference? Or is the saying he has had to contend with the stupidity of Venky's despite using every opportunity for a bit of toadying praise?

[Parsonblue]

I was indeed

Apologies Abbey, I clearly misread the meaning of your post.

[JAL]

Depends whether your entire expectation from day one has been promotion.

The club stated that that was the aim.

How many players in your world does it take to make a successful side jbizzle seeing that Gary has brought in thirty one so far for an eleven a side game.

[chris_h]

Well why don't you go and support Albion Rovers in Coatbridge then

Given time ? How long do you want to give him how many players do you want to give him he's brought in 31 had a 40 plus strike force he's a complete failure how many manager's would of loved to have had JR Rudy Marshall King etc

Time to move on

Correct me if I'm wrong but in the 1st instance GB didn't want the gig.. What changed his mind. A position and salary beyond his wildest dreams for instance

He probably couldn't put Ewood in his sat nav

Instead of having a dig at people why don't you.......................................

........well you know the rest.

[imy9]

Has he really purchased 31 players on permanent contracts? If people are including loans in this then surely loans out should be included too?

[JHRover]

Well we know the club's expected aim has always been promotion. It was stated before every season and Bowyer has already stated it's the aim for this season.

Two years??

Year 1 - Signed a myriad of players. One of whom was £1m and spent about £3-4M knowing FFP was coming without being forced to trim any of the big earners or players he wanted to keep who were on big money

Year 2 - FFP hits but is still not blocked from signing anyone, loaning anyone and trialling anyone within the remit of FFP

So what has he had to contend with? Is he talking about 3rd party transfer in and out influence? Maybe team selection interference? Or is the saying he has had to contend with the stupidity of Venky's despite using every opportunity for a bit of toadying praise?

Its quite obvious what Bowyer means. Not only has he had to contend with owners on the other side of the world who don't know what they are doing, he has a 'board' of directors who have no authority or idea what is going on. Then there's the financial side of the club - he inherited a bloated squad assembled by 3 substandard managers on outrageous wages for a Championship club.

Whether or not Bowyer wanted to keep certain players is irrelevant. The fact is that they had to be moved on and disposed of. If we hadn't and still had Etuhu and co. on the books where would we be now? The finances are bad enough as it is. At least the club has taken steps under Bowyer's management to get things under control. With FUP looming Bowyer HAD to slash the wage bill to either try to comply or get to a stage where the club can comply soon.

Compare the conditions he has worked under to those enjoyed by Karanka at Middlesbrough. Karanka inherited a stable, underachieving squad on a sustainable footing that had been put together by Tony Mowbray. He has had the benefit of working under experienced and clued up administrators like Gibson. If Karanka wants something he can give Gibson or whoever a ring and it will get done quickly and properly.

Karanka hasn't had to reduce Middlesbrough's wage bill. Infact he has been given the freedom to increase it whilst throwing millions of pounds around in an attempt to get promotion.

How would Karanka have managed if he had gone into Middlesbrough and been told that the majority of the squad were on unaffordable wages and not good enough for the Championship? I doubt they'd have made the play-offs last season if they had needed to turn around 20-30 players to get the club in some sort of sensible order.

[Amo]

Can't argue but that is expectation! The aim has been promotion for the fans but realistically I've never thought it would be easy with a squad put together through circumstances rather than design.

You mean signing players like Alan Judge, not playing them, then selling them to a league rival to flourish?

The players good enough to fire us up- cairney, Marshall, rhodes, Gestede.... Who else? 3/4 are signings that may have bought the club more time at this level as opposed to a shot at the one above.

If Mick McCarthy can put a playoff-chasing team together for £10,000, Bowyer has no excuses.

I suppose this is my cue to point out how those who never saw it first hand, just don't know how desperate it got in 2013.

Irrelevant. Stop using the past to justify Bowyer's failures.

[Rover_Shaun]

Its quite obvious what Bowyer means. Not only has he had to contend with owners on the other side of the world who don't know what they are doing,

Yet he can't ever refuse an opportunity to big them up?

[Gav]

I think he cares about the club which is something that many don't give him credit for. I think he is doing the best he can in very difficult circumstances and I believe that he will develop into a very good manager given time. Every successful manager has had to cut his teeth somewhere at some point and learn his trade.

I agree with most of this Parson, people forget he's a rookie, people forget Lowes a rookie, we have a young side, people want instant success.

Not sure Bowyer will ever be a top manager, but he's here for the right reasons as far as I'm concerned.

[JBiz]

You mean signing players like Alan Judge, not playing them, then selling them to a league rival to flourish?

If Mick McCarthy can put a playoff-chasing team together for £10,000, Bowyer has no excuses.

Irrelevant. Stop using the past to justify Bowyer's failures.

Flourish? You mean the same judge who's been touted to move for millions to premier league clubs this summer like Rudy? Nope- Judge, like Taylor, marrow etc all freebies on low wage as risk free signings for this level. Heck the fee we got for judge from Brentford probably paid for Conway on its own. A much better player than Judge.

Regardless of money, Mick Mc n Terry Connor have done it at this level, with this ilk of players many times before. Nobody is disputing that there are no better options than GB.

You'd have to be living miles away or just plain ignorant to think that the past is not impacting the present. What I gather from your posts- you think GB is an unmitigated failure because he didn't get us promoted. To get to this- did you just base your opinion/expectation level on how the club sells season tickets or what GB said he "wants" in an interview?

It's my view that such black and white, right or wrongs are just too simplistic. It's basically just ignoring the past and PRESENT problems such as more good players leaving and owners, directors and board who have had a complete communication meltdown.

It's not an excuse to hide someone's frailties.

[RibbleValleyRover]

Promotion has to be the aim every year with the finances the way they are but as always you don't always get what you want. I don't recall the fan expectation being too high to be honest, they wanted promotion and knew the club had to get it soon before the parachute payments went dry but they weren't 'expecting' it. When Rovers went down with Kean I expected Rovers to be around mid-table at the very best and every appointment since I have felt the same even including under our current manager.

Deep down nothing has changed in years, people seem to be under this illusion that because the owners have gone quiet and we have less of a load mouth manager that things are better. They are not, the club still isn't being run properly on and off the field and we are in a period of stagnation.

Kean was one of the worst if not the worst managers this club has ever had, Bowyer isn't massively better and seems to get a free pass because he has been at Rovers for years and some fans seem to think he has the club's interest at heart.

For those that are happy to give him time to see if he can improve and grow in the job, those fans shouldn't be moaning if the club eventually goes under from the financial strain when Rovers have used up all their opportunities to get out of this mess. It's looming on the horizon, time is nearly up for Rovers.

[Amo]

I'm talking about the same Alan Judge who helped get Brentford into the playoffs while Bowyer and his boys watched on. I haven't seen the likes of Lowe touted for million pound moves to the Premiership either but you seem content with him. And as for Conway being 'much better' than Judge, last season's stats would disagree with you.

Bowyer has had TWO seasons in charge, he's signed 25 players (including loans) in that time, been able to assemble his own backroom staff, had the full backing of the board, had the deadwood paid off, and generally had all the privileges that his predecessors were not afforded.

[Jimmy612]

Well we know the club's expected aim has always been promotion. It was stated before every season and Bowyer has already stated it's the aim for this season.

Two years??

Year 1 - Signed a myriad of players. One of whom was £1m and spent about £3-4M knowing FFP was coming without being forced to trim any of the big earners or players he wanted to keep who were on big money

Year 2 - FFP hits but is still not blocked from signing anyone, loaning anyone and trialling anyone within the remit of FFP

So what has he had to contend with? Is he talking about 3rd party transfer in and out influence? Maybe team selection interference? Or is the saying he has had to contend with the stupidity of Venky's despite using every opportunity for a bit of toadying praise?

Conjecture again.

[imy9]

I'm talking about the same Alan Judge who helped get Brentford into the playoffs while Bowyer and his boys watched on. I haven't seen the likes of Lowe touted for million pound moves to the Premiership either but you seem content with him. And as for Conway being 'much better' than Judge, last season's stats would disagree with you.

Bowyer has had TWO seasons in charge, he's signed 25 players (including loans) in that time, been able to assemble his own backroom staff, had the full backing of the board, had the deadwood paid off, and generally had all the privileges that his predecessors were not afforded.

I wrote a lengthy response but it got deleted. However to summarise GB has signed 20 players on permanent deals and got rid of 34. He has recouped (excluding Gestede) 7 million pounds. Loans wise he has brought in 13 players but got rid of 28 players at the same time! So 14 players fewer at the club and an additional 7 million to get us from 17th to 8/9th is certainly progress, no?

2013-14 season

In: 14 players (2.4 million spent)

Out: 13 players (4.1 million received)

2014-15 season

In: 4 players (500K)

Out: 10 players (undisclosed amount for Rochina and Judge, conservative estimate 500K for both? Total 800K in)

2015-16 season

In: 2 players (free)

Out: 10 players (5 million)

​

Just to give a little more context, his predecessor spent (in the season we finished 17th), a total of 12.5 million plus added at least that much per SEASON in wages in the championship!

Also Alan Judge had a super season and got 12 assists and Conway (imo had a average one) and got 10 assists. Season before Conway got 14 and Judge?

[Rover_Shaun]

Going back a few posts..............So in the past we should have given Hodgson and Kidd less stick because relegating us was the fault of King Kenny setting the bar too high?

Tsk, Kenny you little scamp

[JAL]

I wrote a lengthy response but it got deleted. However to summarise GB has signed 20 players on permanent deals and got rid of 34. He has recouped (excluding Gestede) 7 million pounds. Loans wise he has brought in 13 players but got rid of 28 players at the same time! So 14 players fewer at the club and an additional 7 million to get us from 17th to 8/9th is certainly progress, no?

2013-14 season

In: 14 players (2.4 million spent)

Out: 13 players (4.1 million received)

2014-15 season

In: 4 players (500K)

Out: 10 players (undisclosed amount for Rochina and Judge, conservative estimate 500K for both? Total 800K in)

2015-16 season

In: 2 players (free)

Out: 10 players (5 million)

​

Just to give a little more context, his predecessor spent (in the season we finished 17th), a total of 12.5 million plus added at least that much per SEASON in wages in the championship!

Also Alan Judge had a super season and got 12 assists and Conway (imo had a average one) and got 10 assists. Season before Conway got 14 and Judge?

How much did the club lose on last season's summer signings Varney and Brown those two darlings of the opposition.

[RevidgeBlue]

I wrote a lengthy response but it got deleted. However to summarise GB has signed 20 players on permanent deals and got rid of 34. He has recouped (excluding Gestede) 7 million pounds. Loans wise he has brought in 13 players but got rid of 28 players at the same time! So 14 players fewer at the club and an additional 7 million to get us from 17th to 8/9th is certainly progress, no?

2013-14 season

In: 14 players (2.4 million spent)

Out: 13 players (4.1 million received)

2014-15 season

In: 4 players (500K)

Out: 10 players (undisclosed amount for Rochina and Judge, conservative estimate 500K for both? Total 800K in)

2015-16 season

In: 2 players (free)

Out: 10 players (5 million)

​

Just to give a little more context, his predecessor spent (in the season we finished 17th), a total of 12.5 million plus added at least that much per SEASON in wages in the championship!

Also Alan Judge had a super season and got 12 assists and Conway (imo had a average one) and got 10 assists. Season before Conway got 14 and Judge?

Are you not counting some players who have initially gone out on loan then been sold or paid off at a later date twice?

Also if you're counting the ten that have gone out this summer, that's not really relevant as the season hasn't started yet and we're only really judging Bowyer on results over the past two seasons.

So as far as I can see it's roughly 33 in and 34 out so as far as I can see so imo he's been given completely free reign by the owners within the constraints of our budget yet we're hurtling backwards on the pitch under his stewardship at a rate of knots.

[JBiz]

we're only really judging Bowyer on results over the past two seasons.

yet we're hurtling backwards on the pitch under his stewardship at a rate of knots.

Going from 7th to 8th was it?

[RevidgeBlue]

Going from 7th to 8th was it?

Wasn't it 7th to 9th?

Anyhow more importantly it was going from finishing two points outside the play offs to being completely uncompetitive in the play off stakes and the rest of the season being a dead rubber by mid February.

[Mike Graham]

I have regular Rovers discussions across a group of around 50 long term Rovers fans of all sorts of backgrounds (roofers, brickies, solicitors and a barrister) whom I have known for years, some going back over 40 years.

I have yet to hear any who support GB. Yes he may have stabilised the ship in the eyes of a few but not one thinks he is the man for the job, is a leader, or will take Rovers up.

[West Yorks Rover]

Let's be clear about this, at any normal club the directors would have had a meeting last December and the next day

GB would have been relieved of his duties, the owners would have gone along with this decision for footballing reasons

and the good of the club.

Gary Bowyer is a very fortunate man indeed.

[Mike Graham]

Let's be clear about this, at any normal club the directors would have had a meeting last December and the next day

GB would have been relieved of his duties, the owners would have gone along with this decision for footballing reasons

and the good of the club.

If he were in a supermarket he would have been well past his sell by date, not even fit enough for the food bank.

[tomphil]

Its quite obvious what Bowyer means. Not only has he had to contend with owners on the other side of the world who don't know what they are doing, he has a 'board' of directors who have no authority or idea what is going on. Then there's the financial side of the club - he inherited a bloated squad assembled by 3 substandard managers on outrageous wages for a Championship club.

Whether or not Bowyer wanted to keep certain players is irrelevant. The fact is that they had to be moved on and disposed of. If we hadn't and still had Etuhu and co. on the books where would we be now? The finances are bad enough as it is. At least the club has taken steps under Bowyer's management to get things under control. With FUP looming Bowyer HAD to slash the wage bill to either try to comply or get to a stage where the club can comply soon.

Compare the conditions he has worked under to those enjoyed by Karanka at Middlesbrough. Karanka inherited a stable, underachieving squad on a sustainable footing that had been put together by Tony Mowbray. He has had the benefit of working under experienced and clued up administrators like Gibson. If Karanka wants something he can give Gibson or whoever a ring and it will get done quickly and properly.

Karanka hasn't had to reduce Middlesbrough's wage bill. Infact he has been given the freedom to increase it whilst throwing millions of pounds around in an attempt to get promotion.

How would Karanka have managed if he had gone into Middlesbrough and been told that the majority of the squad were on unaffordable wages and not good enough for the Championship? I doubt they'd have made the play-offs last season if they had needed to turn around 20-30 players to get the club in some sort of sensible order.

On the bits about Karanka that's what someone would have got here last season had Venkys gone for it. Minus the good admin of course. The point being someone had done the sorting out team wise and it was ready to kick on. Mowbray did a very similar job team wise to what Gaz had done here but he held us back last season, no doubt. How would Kanranka have faired with our last seasons squad ? Ok they didn't go up but they had something really good to build on again.

Sometimes others have to do the dirty work only for someone else to come in build on it and take the glory. Sadly we've missed the boat and all the good work could fall apart next season. We'd already been rebuilt up to a point and what's happening now is a pulling apart of that. It'll be another rebuild job but sadly the next model won't be as good.