[Archived] The Gary Bowyer Thread

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

WWWM, I would play 4-2-3-1 with Rhodes up front with Marshall in hole and Conway and O'Sullivan/Koita on the wings.

I like Conway Chaddy but given our static midfield (and if Rhodes is the lone striker) you need players who can counter at pace. Neither Conway or O'Sullivan have that (Marshall isn't exactly rapid but the quickest of the three). The French lad I've never heard of so would need to see him play,

This is the issue with the current squad too samey. Slow midfielders who like to 'sit'. Several one paced wingers who will track back and Rhodes aside, strikers who don't score goals.

If we had a bit of fluidity and craft in the middle, we could even play with overlapping full backs - a little like Boro did last year. We just don't seem to have the players to make any system work effectively.

You can only hope Bowyer has identified a system and is recruiting players to fit said system. There hasn't been much evidence so far.

[Parsonblue]

But, ah ah, what did the Bowyer fans cry? "He needs more time".

Time we didn't have as it not only turns out but was predicted until some of us were blue in the face. Some fans wanted the best for Rovers, some fans wanted the best for Bowyer and were (are) ready to accept whatever incarnation - League One or League Two - that he brings. Because that makes you a proper fan apparently.

Some fans believe that Bowyer has been good for the Rovers over the past two years Stuart and still believe that he is doing a decent job which is why folk support him.

[tomphil]

We had two strikers that scored 40 goals between them and finished no where near the playoffs. Bowyer is not the manager to take this club forward.

Realistically he's just the man to stop us going rapidly backwards as we were a few years ago. He achieved that but set about last season with the only ambition being to do it again when we should have been going all out for more. This season he's going to need all his skills just to do that again.

No point anyone talking about him taking us up that just isn't his job remit. Keep us where we are and give more players game time and hopefully have another few ready to sell next summer to keep us a float. That's the name of the game don't anybody kid yourselves about anything else.

Some fans believe that Bowyer has been good for the Rovers over the past two years Stuart and still believe that he is doing a decent job which is why folk support him.

Sorry but next Saturday you'll look around the stands then a few weeks into the season if things are not going too well, draw after draw I think you'll then finally realise just what a tiny minority 'some fans' are . I take no pleasure from that but I struggle to see any different.

[Stuart]

Some fans believe that Bowyer has been good for the Rovers over the past two years Stuart and still believe that he is doing a decent job which is why folk support him.

That's great. Please don't condescend at those who don't believe that and believe we need better.

[Parsonblue]

That's great. Please don't condescend at those who don't believe that and believe we need better.

But you seem to believe that it's alright to condescend the views of those who believe Bowyer is doing a decent job.

[roverandout]

Decent job is the description, he's not the Messiah that some on here proclaim him to be

[yoda]

Decent job is the description, he's not the Messiah that some on here proclaim him to be

Stable job, just, nearly

[Baz]

Some fans believe that Bowyer has been good for the Rovers over the past two years Stuart and still believe that he is doing a decent job which is why folk support him.

There are more who don't support him than do, and plenty in the unsure / middle too.

My problem is that he's always looking for the excuse, rather than fixing a weakness. This seasons excuse is FFP, ignoring once again that the squad is the one he has assembled under significant financial backing from the owners (Imagine 3 or 4 really good signings rather than Gestede and 20 others, imagine us looking at how to address us setting up defensively, yet conceding nigh on 2 goals per game).

[Stuart]

But you seem to believe that it's alright to condescend the views of those who believe Bowyer is doing a decent job.

Not at all. It's the duplicity that I don't like. The fact is that we have run out of time to get promoted back to the top flight. It's gone. It will in all likelihood never happen again. That time was whilst Bowyer was in charge and he has signed, what, 25-30 players of successively worsening levels of mediocrity, reflected on the field, yet we ended up not even better off off the field but worse. During that period, you, and a couple of others, insisted that he needed more time. That's well documented. Now that it is too late, there are those who still believe that Bowyer is the right man to take us forward. It's all been about keeping Bowyer in the role and not about success for BRFC.

Sorry Parson, but that's how I see it. Much like with Venkys there is nothing to suggest that the slide has been arrested, let alone progress, so forgive me if I don't think the world of Rovers begins and ends with Gary Bowyer.

[Parsonblue]

Not at all. It's the duplicity that I don't like. The fact is that we have run out of time to get promoted back to the top flight. It's gone. It will in all likelihood never happen again. That time was whilst Bowyer was in charge and he has signed, what, 25-30 players of successively worsening levels of mediocrity, reflected on the field, yet we ended up not even better off off the field but worse. During that period, you, and a couple of others, insisted that he needed more time. That's well documented. Now that it is too late, there are those who still believe that Bowyer is the right man to take us forward. It's all been about keeping Bowyer in the role and not about success for BRFC.

Sorry Parson, but that's how I see it. Much like with Venkys there is nothing to suggest that the slide has been arrested, let alone progress, so forgive me if I don't think the world of Rovers begins and ends with Gary Bowyer.

I don't know anyone who does believe that the "world of the Rovers beings and end with Gary Bowyer." Managers do need time Stuart and no matter who the owners brought in there was no guarantee of success. When Jack Hayward, a lifelong Wolves supporter, tried to replicate what Jack did, it took him several years to get Wolves in the Premier League. Both men appointed experienced managers. Kenny and Ray succeeded in getting the Rovers up at the first attempt. Hayward had several experienced managers- Graham Turner, Graham Taylor, Mark Magee, Colin Lee and finally Dave Jones - before Jones delivered promotion via the play-offs. The point being that no manager could guarantee success. When the owners did chop and change managers we almost ended up relegated until Bowyer stepped in and guided us to safety. I have never made any secret that I believe that whoever the manager is they should be given time unless there is the immediate threat of relegation. As for promotion never happening again nobody can predict the future. Let's be honest there was a point in 1971 - when we were skint, in a crumbling relic of a stadium with small gates and the bottom of Division Three, that we could only dream of being where we are today, let alone being Champions of England and in the European Cup.

[Baz]

I don't know anyone who does believe that the "world of the Rovers beings and end with Gary Bowyer." Managers do need time Stuart and no matter who the owners brought in there was no guarantee of success. When Jack Hayward, a lifelong Wolves supporter, tried to replicate what Jack did, it took him several years to get Wolves in the Premier League. Both men appointed experienced managers. Kenny and Ray succeeded in getting the Rovers up at the first attempt. Hayward had several experienced managers- Graham Turner, Graham Taylor, Mark Magee, Colin Lee and finally Dave Jones - before Jones delivered promotion via the play-offs. The point being that no manager could guarantee success. When the owners did chop and change managers we almost ended up relegated until Bowyer stepped in and guided us to safety. I have never made any secret that I believe that whoever the manager is they should be given time unless there is the immediate threat of relegation. As for promotion never happening again nobody can predict the future. Let's be honest there was a point in 1971 - when we were skint, in a crumbling relic of a stadium with small gates and the bottom of Division Three, that we could only dream of being where we are today, let alone being Champions of England and in the European Cup.

No manager can guarantee success - maybe, but a poor manager will guarantee you dont.

[blueboy3333]

Sorry but what a nonsensical argument that is.

Two seasons ago we were in play off contention.

Last season all the teams in play off contention picked up a lot more points (presumably because the sides nearer the bottom statistically performed a lot more poorly)

We failed to pick up the same sort of return and show the same sort of improvement as the other play off contenders . Therefore we got worse. To go from two points to eleven points out of the running is a massive regression. Especially when it wasn't just a case of being in with a chance but blowing up near the end. We were abysmal from November onwards meaning that the season was a dead rubber from February onwards.

last season the top 6 were ridiculously consistent. Positions 3-6 had points totals of 86,85,78,78. The year before they were 85,80,73,72. The outlier was 102pts for the top team in 13/14 against 90 points last year.

The points total for the two teams in the bottom 3 were similiar last year to the 13/14 season 41,39,26 (14/15) against 44,39,37 (13/14). The outlier last year was Blackpool with only 26 points.

Apart from the outliers the 2 seasons were very similair apart from the number of points needed to get in the play-offs. Last year was therefore a much stronger league.

The top 6 improved significantly as you acknowledge. The top 6 also spent money. We spent nothing. We got a similar points total in both seasons. Your assertion that we are 'hurtling backwards on the pitch under Bowyer's stewardship at a rate of knots' is frankly ludicrous. We stood still. Wigan, however, went from top 6 to relegated in one year. Now that is a serious regression.

[Gav]

Bowyer this, Bowyer that.....

ITS THE FOOKING OWNERS THAT ARE THE PROBLEM, NOT THE OOKING MANAGER.

Sorry for shouting, but I just wish people would wake up

last season the top 6 were ridiculously consistent. Positions 3-6 had points totals of 86,85,78,78. The year before they were 85,80,73,72. The outlier was 102pts for the top team in 13/14 against 90 points last year.

The points total for the two teams in the bottom 3 were similiar last year to the 13/14 season 41,39,26 (14/15) against 44,39,37 (13/14). The outlier last year was Blackpool with only 26 points.

Apart from the outliers the 2 seasons were very similair apart from the number of points needed to get in the play-offs. Last year was therefore a much stronger league.

The top 6 improved significantly as you acknowledge. The top 6 also spent money. We spent nothing. We got a similar points total in both seasons. Your assertion that we are 'hurtling backwards on the pitch under Bowyer's stewardship at a rate of knots' is frankly ludicrous. We stood still. Wigan, however, went from top 6 to relegated in one year. Now that is a serious regression.

Deep breath Gav.....

We're 100m in debt, have owners that don't care and you're posting absolute bobbins like that?

Listen blueboy we're heading to league 1 with well over 100m in debt, its about time you took your head out of your backside and start to contemplate a solution to the problem instead of apologising for the people dragging us further down than we are at the moment.

[Baz]

Bowyer this, Bowyer that.....

ITS THE FOOKING OWNERS THAT ARE THE PROBLEM, NOT THE OOKING MANAGER.

Sorry for shouting, but I just wish people would wake up

The two aren't exclusive GAV.

It's obvious who is the biggest problem, but that doesn't excuse under-performance by the other.

[Gav]

The two aren't exclusive GAV.

It's obvious who is the biggest problem, but that doesn't excuse under-performance by the other.

Yes of course you're right Baz, but quite simply its not getting any better, think ****, Berg and appleton, the owners are as thick as pig sh1t, we are stuck with Bowyer, but need rid of the thick 3 from Pune, thats where our focus should be.

[Stuart]

I don't know anyone who does believe that the "world of the Rovers beings and end with Gary Bowyer." Managers do need time Stuart and no matter who the owners brought in there was no guarantee of success. When Jack Hayward, a lifelong Wolves supporter, tried to replicate what Jack did, it took him several years to get Wolves in the Premier League. Both men appointed experienced managers. Kenny and Ray succeeded in getting the Rovers up at the first attempt. Hayward had several experienced managers- Graham Turner, Graham Taylor, Mark Magee, Colin Lee and finally Dave Jones - before Jones delivered promotion via the play-offs. The point being that no manager could guarantee success. When the owners did chop and change managers we almost ended up relegated until Bowyer stepped in and guided us to safety. I have never made any secret that I believe that whoever the manager is they should be given time unless there is the immediate threat of relegation. As for promotion never happening again nobody can predict the future. Let's be honest there was a point in 1971 - when we were skint, in a crumbling relic of a stadium with small gates and the bottom of Division Three, that we could only dream of being where we are today, let alone being Champions of England and in the European Cup.

Yet they still persevered by attracting the right manager, with the necessary experience, not coaches. A look through the history books will show that there are by far more examples of coaches being appointed as manager and bring a complete flop. It's funny you mention Wolves. They appointed a rookie and got relegated as well.

Bowyer this, Bowyer that.....

ITS THE FOOKING OWNERS THAT ARE THE PROBLEM, NOT THE OOKING MANAGER.

Sorry for shouting, but I just wish people would wake up

That's a given, GAV. They are the root of everything that's wrong with the club. But if their influence is meant to be a conversation killer then we may as well close the mb down right now.

[Baz]

Yes of course you're right Baz, but quite simply its not getting any better, think ****, Berg and appleton, the owners are as thick as pig sh1t, we are stuck with Bowyer, but need rid of the thick 3 from Pune, thats where our focus should be.

I don't necessarily disagree, but its a tricky situation gav - until we have someone/ something able and willing to take over from Venkys, then we dont even have an alternative. Im not stuck in the Stockholm syndrome, but we have to have some form of viability relating to a take over.

Even under Venkys we have the ability to do much better, shaw and GB aren't delivering what the current budget set by India is deserving of.

[Tom]

New season new start for the manager for me.

He's had a tough summer but in his own words has targeted promotion.

It's a huge ask for me but let's see how it goes, a bit of bravery and less caution at home will go a long way

[Gav]

Nobody is going to come forward and say they're the night in shining armour, our saviour, because those idiots in Pune haven't learnt how to answer a telephone yet.

Force them out first, then we'll see who comes forward, but surely anyone is better than these ****s

[Stuart]

New season new start for the manager for me.

He's had a tough summer but in his own words has targeted promotion.

It's a huge ask for me but let's see how it goes, a bit of bravery and less caution at home will go a long way

The key but in bold, Tom. As far as a fresh start, the ball is well and truly in Bowyer's court. Targeting promotion this season is insulting the intelligence of every Rovers fan.

Last season he could have done himself (and the fans) a lot of favours with that approach. The trouble is that we have lost the pace (King), the guile (Cairney), the drive (Dunn) and the aerial threat (Gestede). If we are about to lose Rhodes' goals as well then we will be toothless going forward to go with our lack of robustness at the back! :gulp:

[Baz]

New season new start for the manager for me.

He's had a tough summer but in his own words has targeted promotion.

It's a huge ask for me but let's see how it goes, a bit of bravery and less caution at home will go a long way

Fair play to you for renewing Tom, but I think your kidding yourself with the "its a fresh start for the manager" part.

[JBiz]

The fact is that we have run out of time to get promoted back to the top flight. It's gone. It will in all likelihood never happen again.

That time was whilst Bowyer was in charge and he has signed, what, 25-30 players of successively worsening levels of mediocrity, reflected on the field, yet we ended up not even better off off the field but worse.

Now that it is too late,

. It's all been about keeping Bowyer in the role and not about success for BRFC.

Sorry Parson, but that's how I see it. Much like with Venkys there is nothing to suggest that the slide has been arrested, let alone progress, so forgive me if I don't think the world of Rovers begins and ends with Gary Bowyer.

A lot of prediction. All extremely negative! Now it's too late? To ever go up again? I don't understand how you could perceive this opinion as fact.

I'm sure dingles scoffed at the cheap season ticket for promotion deal in the season Dyche got them up. If it was so easy to predict everything, Mercerman wouldn't need bacon to go with the egg on his face.

The overhaul of squad was necessary, regardless of a random inconsistent number touted around. Sure, there's been a few instances where players haven't been up to it, and some have been good. Suggesting this signing spree was "a free reign" goes directly in the face of my recollection. The big wages, bests, agent picks, bad cocks, portugeezers etc that left in that time!

It's all about keeping GB in the role? I don't know what the point you are making is.. Do you mean that fans care less about the club than defending GB?

Maybe it's just my sense of humour but the last sentence after that post nearly killed me;

"I don't think the world of Rovers begins and ends with Gary Bowyer"...

Maybe not begins, but you certainly seem to think the world of rovers ends with Gary Bowyer

[Gav]

Keep apologising Jbizzle, the clubs dying on your watch, are you happy to accept that?

[blueboy3333]

Hi.

Spent zilch, but still lost 20 million?

Stand still = go backwards.

Well done to the side in 6th. The fact they got more points than normal isn't any sort of defence for us however.

The club have obviously been trying for promotion the last year or two. Marketing slogans aside, Rhodes recent comments confirm that also. People talk of the play-offs as the Holy Grail. Automatic promotion is the only guaranteed way up. We are absolutely miles off.

If the slogan was promotion via the play offs then fair enough. But it isn't. And we are nowhere near them either. So if the target is promotion via 10th, well done to all but can someone please explain it better to Bowyer.

If the target is promotion / play offs which we know to be accurate how is a salaried manager surviving whilst missing company targets so badly?

I don't disagree with any of that and i said in the summer that if McCarthy was available then he would be the obvious choice as he could do more than Bowyer with what's on offer.

Personally i think that a midfield pairing of Lowe/Willo will never provide a basis for a sustained push for promotion, and Evans has been a massive disappointment. Bowyer's also never consistently go the team playing well or consistently got the defense functioning properly. The 10th best defence last season tells it's own story. A 40-goal strike force is a guarantee of nothing (except 40 goals!) unless all the other parts work correctly. This makes Bowyer's promotion talk a bit absurd, especially under an embargo when that area can't be especially improved. I put that partly down to the pressure of unrealistic expectations (his critics conveniently forget what a dysfunctional clusterfeck of a club we were when he took over) and also the fact that Bowyer isn't very good at handling the media. He constantly makes a rod for his own back by trotting out what he thinks fans want to hear (top2, top6. promotion etc) but I don't buy all that 'he's talking to Pune' paranoid bull. The owners seem to like and trust him and it's obvious to see why considering what went on before he took over, so i don't think he really needs to send subliminal messaages to india in order to keep his job.

So should he keep his job? He's done some very good things for BRFC under pretty harsh circumstances with absolutely zero help at board or owner level. The lack of appreciation for that is astounding. The club is basically run by idiots. They got lucky that Bowyer is a hard-working manager with a shed-load of integrity, who has built a good close-knit hardworking squad with very little money compared to some clubs in the division. Unfortunately he hasn't got close to getting us promotion but then nor have some managers who have spent big money. There are no guarantees, just as there would have been no gaurantees of promotion if they'd sacked him last summer. If Venky's do roll the managerial dice then they'd better get advisers in who know their stuff and are working in the best interests of the club.

Until venky's shape up or ship out, and until the embargo is lifted, the club is in permanent limbo. I sincerely hope Bowyer gets off to a good start this season and the ridiculous pressure put on him abates for a while. If he doesn't then the loons need to make a quick decision...and then we really are through the looking glass because they haven't got a fecking clue. If they get it wrong, which is very likely, then the current much-mocked 'stability' will seem like football paradise.

[Stuart]

A lot of prediction. All extremely negative! Now it's too late? To ever go up again? I don't understand how you could perceive this opinion as fact.

I'm sure dingles scoffed at the cheap season ticket for promotion deal in the season Dyche got them up. If it was so easy to predict everything, Mercerman wouldn't need bacon to go with the egg on his face.

The overhaul of squad was necessary, regardless of a random inconsistent number touted around. Sure, there's been a few instances where players haven't been up to it, and some have been good. Suggesting this signing spree was "a free reign" goes directly in the face of my recollection. The big wages, bests, agent picks, bad cocks, portugeezers etc that left in that time!

It's all about keeping GB in the role? I don't know what the point you are making is.. Do you mean that fans care less about the club than defending GB?

Maybe it's just my sense of humour but the last sentence after that post nearly killed me;

"I don't think the world of Rovers begins and ends with Gary Bowyer"...

Maybe not begins, but you certainly seem to think the world of rovers ends with Gary Bowyer

I enjoyed reading that post. All bunkum but fun nonetheless.

I particularly liked "the overhaul of the squad was necessary".

Brilliant.