[Archived] The Gary Bowyer Thread

[jim mk2]

Oh dear toys well and truly well and out of the pram.

Most people will see then irony of you calling a poster "one-dimensional and blinkered" given your constant sniping at Pedersen and Allardyce.[/quote

You've been acting in far more insulting manner towards me than den for ages as well but as your general role is often that of board troll it's impossible to take genuine umbrage at or take anything you say seriously.

I had to look up what "troll" meant but from the definition I have found I would say you are doing yourself a disservice as your abuse of Pedersen and Allardyce definitely comes into that category.

I don't see how pointing out your inconsistencies is "insulting".

[RevidgeBlue]

I had to look up what "troll" meant but from the definition I have found I would say you are doing yourself a disservice as your abuse of Pedersen and Allardyce definitely comes into that category.

I don't see how pointing out your inconsistencies is "insulting".

I am not prepared to get into an argument with you but I did not feel everything was as rosy under the previous regime as some others obviously did. Ultimately as it turned out they starved us of financial support then sold us to inexperienced owners so I'm not sure how that view has been proven to be incorrect. Therefore I probably view the current situation as rather more inevitable than those people albeit the current owners accelerated the process.

Given that view i would also say I have probably been prepared to give the current regime more of a chance than many. I would say that position is a consistent one rather than being inconsistent.

If you wish to view my opinion of MGP's on field performances as"abuse" then that's your prerogative. I don't feel his performance levels indicated he thought much of the fans either but that's a matter of personal opinion.

Contrary to the belief you like to peddle on here I certainly never abused Allardyce. I make no bones about the fact I didn't enjoy the style of play whilst he was here but I certainly wasn't alone in that respect.

[47er]

Not trying to take sides here because Revidge isn't the only one who's seemed that way inclined of late but I have to say it is baffling, massively baffling.

The old regime, who's major players included the Trust, Williams, Finn, Souness, Hughes and Allardyce, presided over (I would argue) the greatest achievement in the club's history. Keeping a club as tiny as Rovers in the PL for over a decade, with an ever-diminishing pot of cash from Jack to help do it, and in the by then massively unequal PL filled with super-rich mega-clubs, was in my opinion a more difficult achievement than what we managed in the 90s. A major trophy, 6 top half finishes, 6 cup semi-finals and 4 European campaigns. What a golden age, what a phenomenal performance at board, managerial and player level, what a time to be a Rovers fan.

The new regime - flirting with PL relegation immediately, beaten by a Championship side in a quarter final, relegation on a pathetic 31 points, flirting with relegation the first season in the Championship, a string of poor managers, the firesale of 90% of our high earners, the reduction of Rovers to, in all respects, a mid-table Championship club.

And yet somehow, unbelievably, there are some fans who moaned more back then than they do now. Not only that, they don't even like anyone else moaning now. Maybe there's some psychological explanation for it but I'm damned if I know what it is.

That's a very good post and sums up most of my feelings going back over several years.

[Sparky Marky]

I am not prepared to get into an argument with you but I did not feel everything was as rosy under the previous regime as some others obviously did..

You my friend are a fool to come out with such drivel based on the evidence in SKH succinct and accurate post. Arguing for the sake of it I hope, or I feel for you fella.....

[jim mk2]

Not trying to take sides here because Revidge isn't the only one who's seemed that way inclined of late but I have to say it is baffling, massively baffling.

The old regime, who's major players included the Trust, Williams, Finn, Souness, Hughes and Allardyce, presided over (I would argue) the greatest achievement in the club's history. Keeping a club as tiny as Rovers in the PL for over a decade, with an ever-diminishing pot of cash from Jack to help do it, and in the by then massively unequal PL filled with super-rich mega-clubs, was in my opinion a more difficult achievement than what we managed in the 90s. A major trophy, 6 top half finishes, 6 cup semi-finals and 4 European campaigns. What a golden age, what a phenomenal performance at board, managerial and player level, what a time to be a Rovers fan.

The new regime - flirting with PL relegation immediately, beaten by a Championship side in a quarter final, relegation on a pathetic 31 points, flirting with relegation the first season in the Championship, a string of poor managers, the firesale of 90% of our high earners, the reduction of Rovers to, in all respects, a mid-table Championship club.

And yet somehow, unbelievably, there are some fans who moaned more back then than they do now. Not only that, they don't even like anyone else moaning now. Maybe there's some psychological explanation for it but I'm damned if I know what it is.

We are not a "tiny" club. A tiny club is Stanley or Rochdale. We are a medium-sized club in medium-sized town that consistently averaged 20,000 plus crowds in the Premier League. The infrastructure of our club even now in our diminished state is that of a Premier League club. We showed that with good management on and off the field any club in a town of our size can maintain Premier League football. Yes it, was a golden era but it need not be the end of an era because we can get back there again.

I agree that it seems strange that those such as Revidge who consistently criticised Allardyce will not tolerate criticism of Bowyer. Amazingly they are also always willing to give the owners another chance despite all the crass decisions the owners have made over the past 3 years. The psychology behind it is baffling but perhaps proves the saying there's nowt so queer as folk.

[RevidgeBlue]

We are not a "tiny" club. A tiny club is Stanley or Rochdale. We are a medium-sized club in medium-sized town that consistently averaged 20,000 plus crowds in the Premier League. The infrastructure of our club even now in our diminished state is that of a Premier League club. We showed that with good management on and off the field any club in a town of our size can maintain Premier League football. Yes it, was a golden era but it need not be the end of an era because we can get back there again.

I agree that it seems strange that those such as Revidge who consistently criticised Allardyce will not tolerate criticism of Bowyer. Amazingly they are also always willing to give the owners another chance despite all the crass decisions the owners have made over the past 3 years. The psychology behind it is baffling but perhaps proves the saying there's nowt so queer as folk.

I'm not saying people can't criticise Bowyer at all. I just think that some fans are quick to criticise when we have a bad result but seem to find it far harder to give him any credit when something does go well. Probably far more of a by product of the ownership situation than a direct reflection on him.

As for the owners, they've made mistakes and we are where we are but unless someone else comes in we have to get on with it and try to make the best of it. They do seem at least to be not short of a bob or two to pay people off etc.and more importantly seem to be paying the bills which I really don't think should be underestimated.

Besides you won't tolerate any criticism of Sam, and are always the first to leap to his defence whenever anyone says anything mildly critical about him. That's fine but ultimately irrelevant as it was some time ago and he isn't coming back.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

We are not a "tiny" club. A tiny club is Stanley or Rochdale. We are a medium-sized club in medium-sized town that consistently averaged 20,000 plus crowds in the Premier League. The infrastructure of our club even now in our diminished state is that of a Premier League club. We showed that with good management on and off the field any club in a town of our size can maintain Premier League football. Yes it, was a golden era but it need not be the end of an era because we can get back there again.

I agree that it seems strange that those such as Revidge who consistently criticised Allardyce will not tolerate criticism of Bowyer. Amazingly they are also always willing to give the owners another chance despite all the crass decisions the owners have made over the past 3 years. The psychology behind it is baffling but perhaps proves the saying there's nowt so queer as folk.

Well, I meant tiny in respect to other clubs at the level we were competing. We only averaged 20,000 plus by keeping tickets prices way below PL average, had we priced them at the average (which I'm guessing was about £600) then I think our attendances would have been about 18-20,000. That's the real size of Rovers as a PL outfit and the one you have to go off in terms of income and spending power. I said tiny to stress the point that in my opinion it was an even bigger achievement than we tend to give it credit for, because despite what most believed we've never even been a Bolton/Fulham size club once differences in ST price are taken into account.

We can get there again but then we've got the other big challenge of staying there. The bookies are the best in the business at calculating probabilities and they currently have us about 15/2 for promotion. But of course they've gotta make money so they actually rate our chances at about 1 in 10. Crystal Palace would be our equivalents if we got promoted and the bookies have them down at about 4/10 for relegation, so they rate their chances of survival at about 1 in 4. If we managed that then it'd get easier because we'd have a season of TV money that the next set of promoted clubs hadn't, and that's how you can stay in the PL, almost regardless of size, from that point on. But getting to that point? Well to achieve both you have to multiply the probabilities, so 1/10 x 1/4 = 1/40. 2.5% chance from this point of getting back to where we were, nice one Venkys.

[Blue blood]

I can understand why you would exercise caution about mullering 10 man Barnsley but the Bolton performance wad an excellent one imo whatever level you look at it at.

I'm not saying people can't criticise Bowyer at all. I just think that some fans are quick to criticise when we have a bad result but seem to find it far harder to give him any credit when something does go well. Probably far more of a by product of the ownership situation than a direct reflection on him.

Hope it doesn't come across as I don't want to give Bowyer credit with my original post - not the intent at all. And fair dos on your views of the Bolton game; though they are in poor form with injuries - those are facts, which surely should have some sort of impact on the game. Regardless of mitigating circumstances, as I said before credit for doing what we did in both this and the Barnsley game.

I think the point I'm trying to make are that these are still just 2 games. Not only that very few of our new players - bar Spurr - have played well in every game they've played. So yes there are reasons for optimism, but I do feel it's early days and could just as easily turn around and go pear shaped. It's far too early to be hailing Bowyer as a managerial genius, but there are promising signs that we are heading in the right direction.

I do wonder how people can be getting over excited on the basis of Bowyer's performances - and think that probably does lead to people being a bit more negative to try to counterbalance this. (For example in one thread read Marshall is a great signing - he's had one game where he was decent - hardly enough to call a good signing. He might seem like a good signing, and even that I think is being optimistic to say on his past record.) I grant you there are some serial moaners who're never happy, but I do think all this knee jerk optimism may see fans coming to earth with a bit of a bump.

[Rover_Shaun]

Never any balance or middle ground these days

[Jimmy612]

[Rover_Shaun]

I'm with Den. Bowyer by rights should be nowhere near the role. But we are were we are and destined to stay where we are for a while.

[chris_h]

That's a very good post and sums up most of my feelings going back over several years.

Unbelievable. You were one of the previous regime's biggest critics.

[thenodrog]

Selective memory being much in evidence on here over the years Chris. I think I've even had a touch of it on occasion but some appear to be suffering total amnesia.

[blueboy3333]

It was a tricky one Rev. Recruit someone brand new but reasonably established and force him to downsize the squad and shop for bargains, or trust in someone who had already done well, from a Rovers and footballing background, who displays a lot of maturity, class and common sense and is used to working with younger players as standard.

I believe we made the sensible choice at the time. Hard to quantify how low we had sunk and one of the reasons for the mood change is the quality and pride of the man we have in charge now.

and you had the nerve to ask me if i 'wanted the best for Blackburn Rovers' because i don't demonise Bowyer at every turn.

We all write things we regret on here, and we all talk a load old shyte at times (i praised Appleton at one point!), but you held the same view 18 months ago as i do now. You've changed your mind, fair enough, but less of the outraged posts just because some of us haven't.

Unbelievable. You were one of the previous regime's biggest critics.

Come now, 47'er is a real asset to the board. He's great at popping on every few weeks to insult people without ever really contributing to football discussions. What a guy!

[Athlete]

and you had the nerve to ask me if i 'wanted the best for Blackburn Rovers' because i don't demonise Bowyer at every turn.

We all write things we regret on here, and we all talk a load old shyte at times (i praised Appleton at one point!), but you held the same view 18 months ago as i do now. You've changed your mind, fair enough, but less of the outraged posts just because some of us haven't.

Come now, 47'er is a real asset to the board. He's great at popping on every few weeks to insult people without ever really contributing to football discussions. What a guy!

Unfortunately there's quite a few changed there view on GB as you'll notice with the gates on Ewood next season an awful lot who said give him a chance have now said he's had long enough

Time for change

[blueboy3333]

Unfortunately there's quite a few changed there view on GB as you'll notice with the gates on Ewood next season an awful lot who said give him a chance have now said he's had long enough

Time for change

not the point i was making

[thenodrog]

Unfortunately there's quite a few changed there view on GB as you'll notice with the gates on Ewood next season an awful lot who said give him a chance have now said he's had long enough

Time for change

The club is on a downward spiral. Changing the manager won't alter a thing. Our best players are off and worse ones are coming in. When that happens and seasons turn into relegation scraps the supporters dont hang on in there when the club needs them most but rather disappear in droves and abandon the club. Don't want to cry wolf unnecessarily but I have seen this before.

[Stuart]

The club is on a downward spiral. Changing the manager won't alter a thing. Our best players are off and worse ones are coming in. When that happens and seasons turn into relegation scraps the supporters dont hang on in there when the club needs them most but rather disappear in droves and abandon the club. Don't want to cry wolf unnecessarily but I have seen this before.

Couldn't disagree more. We need a manager with better acumen, better experience and better contacts. Do you think a Warnock or a Curbishley or a McCarthy wouldn't offer more than Bowyer?

[Athlete]

The club is on a downward spiral. Changing the manager won't alter a thing. Our best players are off and worse ones are coming in. When that happens and seasons turn into relegation scraps the supporters dont hang on in there when the club needs them most but rather disappear in droves and abandon the club. Don't want to cry wolf unnecessarily but I have seen this before.

I've seen it before but back then football was a totally different sport pre sky cash

As for leaving in droves you abandoned the club a few seasons ago remember hypocrite

[ABBEY]

Selective memory being much in evidence on here over the years Chris. I think I've even had a touch of it on occasion but some appear to be suffering total amnesia.

A bit like you and your venky U turn gord 😇

[Waggy76]

Couldn't disagree more. We need a manager with better acumen, better experience and better contacts. Do you think a Warnock or a Curbishley or a McCarthy wouldn't offer more than Bowyer?

I think my cat would ...

[thenodrog]

Couldn't disagree more. We need a manager with better acumen, better experience and better contacts. Do you think a Warnock or a Curbishley or a McCarthy wouldn't offer more than Bowyer?

Warnock grief no! Curbishley is retired. McCarthy possibly but not by much obviously and he'd rather eat worms rather than come here! And none of them once the 3 quality strikers have upped sticks and left.

BUT ffs............. Are those your best options Stu? If they are then I suggest it's best and safest to stick rather than twist. If you want to talk daft and resurrect an impossible target out of retirement sod Curbs... think big and go for SAF.

I've seen it before but back then football was a totally different sport pre sky cash

As for leaving in droves you abandoned the club a few seasons ago remember hypocrite

Athlete you are as thick as a bar top. How many times do I need to explain my perfectly valid reasoning that your brain simply cannot absorb?

[Athlete]

Warnock grief no! Curbishley is retired. McCarthy possibly but not by much obviously and he'd rather eat worms rather than come here! And none of them once the 3 quality strikers have upped sticks and left.

BUT ffs............. Are those your best options Stu? If they are then I suggest it's best and safest to stick rather than twist. If you want to talk daft and resurrect an impossible target out of retirement sod Curbs... think big and go for SAF.

Athlete you are as thick as a bar top. How many times do I need to explain my perfectly valid reasoning that your brain simply cannot absorb?

So why are you so pro venky now Mr Lancashire United

[thenodrog]

A bit like you and your venky U turn gord

Don't do an athlete on me Abbs! You have more intellect than that eejit. But as i've said before the BRFC ship is sinking and needs baling out till we hit dry land... don't chuck out the only person with a bucket!

Not only that but you've not given me a workeable solution to me question to you.

So why are you so pro venky now Mr Lancashire United

Did I say a bar top? Sorry........ I meant as a brick! Better stop now Athlete........... your intellect is showing.

[Stuart]

Warnock grief no! Curbishley is retired. McCarthy possibly but not by much obviously and he'd rather eat worms rather than come here! And none of them once the 3 quality strikers have upped sticks and left.

BUT ffs............. Are those your best options Stu? If they are then I suggest it's best and safest to stick rather than twist. If you want to talk daft and resurrect an impossible target out of retirement sod Curbs... think big and go for SAF.

Subtlety not your strong point still. The little 'a' in front of their names implies that they are simply examples. I'm talking about someone of their ilk. As usual you duck the question with a red herring - and stick in a personal insult (athlete) to go with it. Get a grip man.

Do you honestly think there is no manager out there who would take the Rovers job that could offer more than Bowyer? Honestly?

Did I say a bar top? Sorry........ I meant as a brick! Better stop now Athlete........... your intellect is showing.

-2

Having a bad day, old boy? Not like you to resort to insults. What exactly happened at that OBN do?