[Archived] The Gary Bowyer Thread

[mustard]

You can be a bit of a spikey character and I've no desire to get into a spat with anyone again but, in my opinion, that post was some desperate nonsense.

Out of interest, what do you think of Bowyer's interviews? I know you've said that your main issue is that fans have a go at Bowyer and should be more grateful, but surely you must also find his interviews and the content therein tedious at best?

Considering promotion is the ONLY way of securing the long-term future of Blackburn Rovers FC, at what point would you turn around and say that Bowyer needs potting?

[DE.]

Percentage mark up profits? In all my footballing life, and that includes working for a pro-team, I have never, ever heard a manager calculating percentage mark-ups.

GB's got 99 problems, but math ain't one

[donnermeat]

Maths!

[onlyonejackwalker]

You can be a bit of a spikey character and I've no desire to get into a spat with anyone again but, in my opinion, that post was some desperate nonsense.

Spikey? Desperate nonsense? Don't sit on the fence pal.

I've been very polite to you Chris ever since you joined. Pointing out unneccessary posts when you simply slag someone off is not spikey, just fair. Maybe sticking up for MM irritates you? Interestingly, you have started actually talking about the football and I have been enjoying your posts far more.

It's not just me unhappy with interviews about player development, player sales, mark-ups, squad values.

There has been enough written about how much Rudy did or did not cost. Thought it worth discussing further in light of Bowyers 3000 percent comments.

[chris_h]

Out of interest, what do you think of Bowyer's interviews? I know you've said that your main issue is that fans have a go at Bowyer and should be more grateful, but surely you must also find his interviews and the content therein tedious at best?

Considering promotion is the ONLY way of securing the long-term future of Blackburn Rovers FC, at what point would you turn around and say that Bowyer needs potting?

I've already said it last October after we got stuffed away at Norwich and Wolves. I'd like us to have a manager with the hard headed pragmatism to scrap for draws, scrape wins and be difficult to beat. That isn't Bowyer in my opinion unfortunately.

As for his interviews, well he's hardly Mourinho I'll grant you that.

All the conspiracy theory stuff is Bull dust for me. Furthermore some of the baseless hints and allegations are reprehensible.

[mustard]

I've already said it last October after we got stuffed away at Norwich and Wolves. I'd like us to have a manager with the hard headed pragmatism to scrap for draws, scrape wins and be difficult to beat. That isn't Bowyer in my opinion unfortunately.

As for his interviews, well he's hardly Mourinho I'll grant you that.

All the conspiracy theory stuff is Bull dust for me. Furthermore some of the baseless hints and allegations are reprehensible.

Do you not think that there does seem to be an underlying focus on player profits than on results? I say underlying, yet it seems clear as day in interviews when after every other result there's a talk about player values.

I do think it's more infuriating to read when coming home from a dull game at Ewood and probably why it affects us living locally a bit more (not a dig). I'd probably be affected a little less if I was in the sunshine and not witnessing the dross that's on show most weeks (on my hols in two weeks so let's see if I moan less).

So you do agree that we could do with a new manager? Question is, at what point is it acceptable to call for his head? We need promotion to survive, our Prem facilities and the subsequent costs will vouch for that. Whilst I agree with you that Bowyer did a great job in the beginning, I do truly think his continued presence has damaged and is damaging any hopes of a positive future for Rovers.

If promotion is the aim (which it should be), Bowyer's job should be under heavy scrutiny and he should be disposed of if things aren't going well, just like he should have been potted over a year ago. If we find ourselves below mid-table at Christmas and Bowyer is still in a job, I will have no doubt in my mind that there is an ulterior motive. Not suggesting anything sinister, but it will be clear that the Venky's don't care about promotion.

It just pains me to see Gaz's job so safe, yet the future of Rovers so bleak.

[roverandout]

Hello mate how's the fosters?

[chris_h]

Do you not think that there does seem to be an underlying focus on player profits than on results? I say underlying, yet it seems clear as day in interviews when after every other result there's a talk about player values.

I do think it's more infuriating to read when coming home from a dull game at Ewood and probably why it affects us living locally a bit more (not a dig). I'd probably be affected a little less if I was in the sunshine and not witnessing the dross that's on show most weeks (on my hols in two weeks so let's see if I moan less).

So you do agree that we could do with a new manager? Question is, at what point is it acceptable to call for his head? We need promotion to survive, our Prem facilities and the subsequent costs will vouch for that. Whilst I agree with you that Bowyer did a great job in the beginning, I do truly think his continued presence has damaged and is damaging any hopes of a positive future for Rovers.

If promotion is the aim (which it should be), Bowyer's job should be under heavy scrutiny and he should be disposed of if things aren't going well, just like he should have been potted over a year ago. If we find ourselves below mid-table at Christmas and Bowyer is still in a job, I will have no doubt in my mind that there is an ulterior motive. Not suggesting anything sinister, but it will be clear that the Venky's don't care about promotion.

It just pains me to see Gaz's job so safe, yet the future of Rovers so bleak.

We've been a selling club for donkeys years I'm afraid. Even Jack Walker wanted us to 'wash our face' eventually. I'm afraid it's a fact of life that we have to focus on profits made from players as, as is constantly pointed out on here, we are bleeding out financially. Bowyer is entitled to blow his trumpet a bit about the profits he's been instrumental in generating, after all he'll get precious little credit on here.

As I already stated I've said it was time for him to go quite some time back. What I haven't done is say it again and again and again until it becomes a depressing, soul destroying mantra.

[JBiz]

Must admit one of you made me chuckle then.

"What's he gonna moan about when he's not in embargo?"

Funny for two reasons. 1. The article had no moaning in, and 2. Do you think we'd ever of even got out the embargo before 2017 without reinvesting to olsson/Formica/Rochina cash into Rudy/Tom?

Call the comments keanesque all you want, but I'd be seeing a doctor over memory issues. How many times did Bowyers say we needed to take a step back to step forward ie relegation? How many times has GB called Willem Tomlinson then next Gerrard?

Typical Monday on BRFCC. I'm bored let's stick the boot in. Doesn't matter who it is, Hanley, Lowe, GB, Myers, Wheelock let's call them @#/?.

[chris_h]

Hello mate how's the fosters?

Run along now little one, the grown ups are talking.

[mustard]

We've been a selling club for donkeys years I'm afraid. Even Jack Walker wanted us to 'wash our face' eventually. I'm afraid it's a fact of life that we have to focus on profits made from players as, as is constantly pointed out on here, we are bleeding out financially. Bowyer is entitled to blow his trumpet a bit about the profits he's been instrumental in generating, after all he'll get precious little credit on here.

As I already stated I've said it was time for him to go quite some time back. What I haven't done is say it again and again and again until it becomes a depressing, soul destroying mantra.

Oh yeah, no issue with us being a selling club as such, just that he harps on about nothing but player values. It's frustrating that this seems to take precedence over results and performances.

Fair enough, one thing I will say, the longer Bowyer remains in charge and the longer we stay in the Champ, the more depressing and soul destroying things will get.

Typical Monday on BRFCC. I'm bored let's stick the boot in. Doesn't matter who it is, Hanley, Lowe, GB, Myers, Wheelock let's call them @#/?.

Glad you're finally on-board

[EgyptianPete]

Oh yeah, no issue with us being a selling club as such, just that he harps on about nothing but player values. It's frustrating that this seems to take precedence over results and performances.

Fair enough, one thing I will say, the longer Bowyer remains in charge and the longer we stay in the Champ, the more depressing and soul destroying things will get.

Glad you're finally on-board

Saturdays match, I was there, was like this, get the ball pass sideways many times as possible, then pass back back to eventually the goalkeeper no matter what the dangers were and big boot up field, repeat infinitum, Bowyer has learned F all.

[mustard]

Saturdays match, I was there, was like this, get the ball pass sideways many times as possible, then pass back back to eventually the goalkeeper no matter what the dangers were and big boot up field, repeat infinitum, Bowyer has learned F all.

I was there also mate. Thought the exact same. First half was a carbon-copy of most games last year. Second half we perked up a bit, but I put this down to Wigan making changes to go more direct. They put a bigger lad up front and focussed more on lumping it than playing it around which worked for Hanley and Duffy.

Despite the scoreline, which I felt was flattering, there were still the same old worrying signs there.

[LewisF]

For me, this is GB's make or break season. Providing that we keep Rhodes, and sell no one else, there's no reason why we can't finish top 6. If not top 6, two wins over bu**ley must be the minimum.

[JBiz]

Fair enough, one thing I will say, the longer Bowyer remains in charge and the longer we stay in the Champ

I agree- another downgrade to someone who doesn't have the dressing room or another over promoted rookie from this ownership and we'll be in league one

[ABBEY]

Or someone with a pair of balls and promotion

[JBiz]

Or someone with a pair of balls and promotion

So that's all you need is it?

[mustard]

I agree- another downgrade to someone who doesn't have the dressing room or another over promoted rookie from this ownership and we'll be in league one

Who's to say it won't happen under Bowyer? Is he truly that steady or has he been bailed out by the strikers? There were times last season I thought he'd lost the dressing room. Cairney out sulking on the right wing, Rhodes clearly disgruntled and a set of players that just didn't seem to care.

If promotion is the only way out of this mess, and we are SURE that Bowyer cannot take us up, then what's the point in sticking with him? My opinion is that if Bowyer stays in charge we will drop to League One within the next few seasons regardless, I'd sooner we gamble on a new appointment that at least has a chance of taking us up than die this slow, painful death under Bowyer.

It's all about risk vs reward. With Bowyer there is still risk but little chance of reward. Appointing a new manager brings with it more risk but a greater potential for reward. Personally I'd look to gamble.

[JBiz]

Who's to say it won't happen under Bowyer?

2013/14/15.

Whilst I don't think your as silly as some here to believe that "rhodes kept us up single handed" I do think you're ignoring statistic/fact - GB and his team have kept us at this level and ultimately will do.

I still see that team to be more likely to get us up, than dangerous Derek and the Desai finding an alternative that will guarantee it.

I don't think that it's promotion or bust with Venkys either despite Mercermans predictions that the fire sale had started and we'd be watching hole i'th wall pub team by Christmas.

We need to get wages below revenues first and foremost and I don't think we are too far away. That might mean championship standard and football for a long time but I'll take that as it's better than what could've happened.

[mustard]

2013/14/15.

Whilst I don't think your as silly as some here to believe that "rhodes kept us up single handed" I do think you're ignoring statistic/fact - GB and his team have kept us at this level and ultimately will do.

I still see that team to be more likely to get us up, than dangerous Derek and the Desai finding an alternative that will guarantee it.

I don't think that it's promotion or bust with Venkys either despite Mercermans predictions that the fire sale had started and we'd be watching hole i'th wall pub team by Christmas.

We need to get wages below revenues first and foremost and I don't think we are too far away. That might mean championship standard and football for a long time but I'll take that as it's better than what could've happened.

I do think, however, that if you gave Bowyer's squad to all the managers in this league that the vast majority would have been able to achieve similar or better. Credit to Bowyer for assembling a decent squad, but I believe the team performed in spite of GB's deficiencies.

Rhodes has played a key part in keeping us at this level, as Gestede has since his arrival. Last season, I believe we looked worse as a team in a lot of ways than the season before but the strikers chipped in with goals and won points, often against the run of play.

My worry is, if Rhodes leaves, as well as Gestede, Cairney, King and the rest. Where is Bowyer going to find those 40-odd goals? Do I think he has it in him to adapt his tactics, bring out the best in the midfield and have another striker signed who can make up at least some of the deficit?

If we fail to sort out the defensive frailties and are even slightly less prolific in front of goal, I think it will really show in the league standings. You have confidence Bowyer could perform without the front two, whilst I don't.

[Exiled in Toronto]

"But the bid came in, it was accepted by the owners, and, from a business point of view, I think the mark-up was something like 3,000 per cent.

Well probably have Dragons Den interested in us soon because I think it was something like a 600 per cent mark-up on Tom Cairney too!

So, from a business perspective, the club has obviously invested the money better, but from a footballing perspective, weve lost an unbelievable striker."

Well, well, well.

Who knew off the top of their heads that Gestede's purchase fee of (8 million) was 3000 percent more than 200k?

Nobody?

Good because it isnt. If my maths are correct 3000 percent mark up on 200k is 6 million.

But, but, but, Mercerman is a con-artist keep telling us all it was 6 million reported everywhere, not the 8 million Kamy has suggested.

So has Gary unwittingly just admitted that Rudy was sold for 6 million?

Whatever, I don't really care. What I do care about is our football manager buying a calculator to work out the 3000 percent and 600 percent transfer profit on the players sold, prior to immediately doing his LET interview. Percentage mark up profits? In all my footballing life, and that includes working for a pro-team, I have never, ever heard a manager calculating percentage mark-ups.

Does he really think this garbage is endearing anyone to him? Squad values, player values, selling profits, player development. Dragons Den? What a plank.

How about results, performances, tactics and league positions? What about hitting playing and performance targets instead of downsizing our ambitions and quality ,whilst crowing to your boss about making a few quid. Which in the wider scheme of things does not prevent us losing money each year anyway.

Disappointing. We are slowly seeing the mark of the man and what money, coupled with pressure, does to many.

Maybe it's just me, but with the club under FFP embargo, I'd want everyone at least considering the business aspect of things, because that's the only way we'll ever get out of it.

And as to comments, lack thereof, about "results, performances, tactics and league positions", personally I wasn't expecting too many of those given the season hasn't yet started.

[JBiz]

1. I do think, however, that if you gave Bowyer's squad to all the managers in this league that the vast majority would have been able to achieve similar or better.

2. Last season, I believe we looked worse as a team in a lot of ways than the season before.

3. My worry is, if Rhodes leaves, as well as Gestede, Cairney, King and the rest. Where is Bowyer going to find those 40-odd goals?

4. You have confidence Bowyer could perform without the front two, whilst I don't.

1. I'd say some managers- mick mc, Eddie Howe etc - but there are few managers that could guarantee promotion. The finance situation also impacts on hiring a "guarantee" without even taking the ownership and director problems into account.

2. I think we looked similar to the previous season apart from players like Hanley, Cairney, Marshall and Evans who under performed. The other additions did ok, some improved ala Henley, Olsson, but overall results where similar hence a very similar points total. GB will need to get performances from key players like Marshall this season to make up for those that have left. The couple of extra players will be a bonus- particularly if we get Guthrie as an upgrade on Williamson for an experienced head in the center!

The main thing about last season that we need to avoid is a tonne of injuries.

3. Looking at the friendlies and last season, myself and Khod have discussed how much more organised defensively we should be in 451/4231 without playing 2 strikers. Also, in the friendlies, Conway, Marshall and both centre backs have got goals. If rhodes stays, I could see him doing better than last year in this setup - despite their individual effectiveness, Rudy and Jr didn't work too well together.

4. I don't have confidence that we will go up, but I feel I've seen enough to say we are least going in a better direction than what's been perennially predicted since 2012. Midtable without either striker. As I said a few weeks back, that lack of pressure and expectation could help in some ways. Also, The emergence of a few young players like I osullivan, lenihan, willem, raya etc has given me a bit of hope for the future. It'd be great if someone advising the Venkys used Southampton as an example!

[roverandout]

So that's all you need is it?

Did abbey kneed his balls?

[onlyonejackwalker]

Maybe it's just me, but with the club under FFP embargo, I'd want everyone at least considering the business aspect of things, because that's the only way we'll ever get out of it.

And as to comments, lack thereof, about "results, performances, tactics and league positions", personally I wasn't expecting too many of those given the season hasn't yet started.

No pal its not just you and you raise a good point that obviously the club manager should be aware of the current finances. I have my own business, so find that side of the club interesting anyway. Normally however, a Finance Director or maybe Managing Director would talk in such terms, not the manager of the football team with a million and one other things to concern himself with.

And yes the season is yet to start so there are few games other than pre-season to review or discuss. However, it is not a recent event discussing squad values and has been mentioned during last season, after last season and now before this season starts. So it is clearly a topical defence / message for Bowyer to keep repeating, irrespective of the time of year.

I don't know his role profile of course. If charged with making profit on player sales maybe he feels justified with such puffery. Most managers are based on performances and results which is why it is a tad suprising he focuses so much on things largely irrelevant to events on the pitch.

[JBiz]

things largely irrelevant to events on the pitch.

Unfortunately due to the nature of football, if we can't sort the financial issues, burdens and wages out - we can't compete. The opposite of irrelevant.

It irritates me but I think it's to be expected when the fans are aware of the 10s of millions of pounds shed through investing in players who've not performed.