[Archived] The Gary Bowyer Thread

[Rover_Shaun]

It was a jape.

Obviously as you think he's a Coco lover you would have given him a piece of your mind as he recollected to you the time he wasn't made full time team captain by Coco?

Anyhow as it was all a jolly jape that missed it's mark I'm moving on

[RibbleValleyRover]

The quotes from Bowyer about player profit are a pretty obvious defence mechanism that is directed towards the owners. Why get rid of me when I developed a player and sold him for 3000% of what he cost? Or Tom Cairney who I sold for a 600% mark-up. Kean on a regular basis said something similar, some people must have very short memories.

Good managers getting results don't talk about that stuff, they don't need to.

[Athlete]

The quotes from Bowyer about player profit are a pretty obvious defence mechanism that is directed towards the owners. Why get rid of me when I developed a player and sold him for 3000% of what he cost? Or Tom Cairney who I sold for a 600% mark-up. Kean on a regular basis said something similar, some people must have very short memories.

Good managers getting results don't talk about that stuff, they don't need to.

Thats one of the reasons why he'll never be a good manager

[matt83]

The quotes from Bowyer about player profit are a pretty obvious defence mechanism that is directed towards the owners. Why get rid of me when I developed a player and sold him for 3000% of what he cost? Or Tom Cairney who I sold for a 600% mark-up. Kean on a regular basis said something similar, some people must have very short memories.

Good managers getting results don't talk about that stuff, they don't need to.

I agree. Anyone with basic maths skills or access to a calculator can see the gestede deal was financially good for the club but he needs to let achievements on the pitch do the talking. And in a way that's his issue.

In terms of what's being said listening to bowyer talk about the gestede transfer is a chilling reminder of how kean talked about the Phil Jones transfer. Could have used the same script. And they do also come out with random obscure stats which are irrelevant kean well he wrote the book and yesterday bowyer seemed to revel in us topping the hitting the woodwork table plus other things.

However, before anyone says can't compare the two. As far as I'm concerned there is no likeness between them as people just some of the things they say and do. So let's make it clear kean was a terrible human being, proven in court to be a liar, a drunk odious cretin most significantly a terrible manager. Bowyer is a much better person just a man out of his depth doing an rank average job.

[Coatbridge rover]

[quote name="matt83" post="1559254" timestamp="

However, before anyone says can't compare the two. As far as I'm concerned there is no likeness between them as people just some of the things they say and do. So let's make it clear kean was a terrible human being, proven in court to be a liar, a drunk odious cretin most significantly a terrible manager. Bowyer is a much better person just a man out of his depth doing an rank average job.

That's a fair reflection,Kean was in it for himself and his kentaro buddies.

[DE.]

To be fair I don't think anybody is saying Kean and Bowyer are basically the same person, just that quotes about player value are straight out of the Steve Kean Bullshit Handbook.

[ABBEY]

Just like his saying how well we had done in games last year when it was actually rank

[Blue blood]

Not knowing your age I think staving off relagation and 2 top ten finishes he does deserve a punt.

Ps are you blaming him for the embargo.

Age is 31 although what is childish about my post I'm at a loss to see. Still that's a new one for me on here - been on here around 9/10 years and never had that questioned before.

As I stated am not blaming him for the embargo but stating it'll be harder post embargo for him and he didn't achieve before that hindrance.

2 top 10 finishes when you need promotion is not success. 2 top 10 finishes with the squad we had cannot be classed as success. Likewise when seeing the wage budget.

Oh and there's all the reservations I mentioned in my original post.

[Exiled in Toronto]

at the end of the day it is a fabulous profit be it 6 or 8 million.

We all know Bowyer's maths are spot on. Lets get real there is no way he would have said those comments without being 100% sure of the maths. He would be a laughing stock if 1000 percent out. I'm just wondering if he had to ask for help or worked it out on his lonesome. (No criticism he's not required to be a maths expert. Wish he could understand though that if they score more than us we lose.)

Imagine the tee - shirts. 1000 percent? Or was that one percent?

I'd ask him what percentage difference between us and automatic promotion. That would get him scrabbling for his abacus, while shouting for the press officer and security.

I have no doubt someone (FD or MD) gave him the number and he has no idea what it means.

[Blue blood]

he's signed a 'normal' amount as far as the churn in the Football League goes, and a lot less than some teams. Do the research.

Good luck with the new manager hunt. Who do you think venky's have in mind? Will they DEFINITELY pick manager to get us promoted? What if they don't and we do a Wigan? What if the new manager starts signing utter shyte with no resale value and we end up back under an embargo, in League1? Of course that couldn't possibly happen. Nailed on promotion, because we've loads of money to spend and we're not at all in debt.

GB - REBUILDING ROVERS SINCE 2013. APPRECIATED BY VERY FEW.

Disagree but then we've had this discussion before. Just a quick recap as really don't want to get to into it when you consider the number, wages, and free reign over who he keeps and lets go it's hard to say he's not had a favorable start compared to other championship managers. And compared to the likes of Sam and Hughes in their Rovers situation (admittedly in a different context) he's had a lot more comparative backing.

Anyhow I agree with you good luck is needed on the manager hunt. Who have Venkys in mind - I don't know. It depends who they listen to at the time. But a few key points in my thinking to answer your questions.

1) No manager will definitely get us promoted - however an experienced one/one with more skill increases the odds. I think a better manager with a bit more tactical awareness, or a bit more about them would have got more from the players we had, and have. Don't think anyone would disagree with this - including yourself. I think the more relevant question is what are the odds of us getting a better manager.

2) And here is my key point. I don't think Bowyer is a very good manager at all. The reason I think we could do better, is because I don't think there's masses to improve upon. Yes Bowyer can spot a player, and not be phased by nutcase owners but other than that I think he has little ability. Therefore changing managers is just as likely to create an improvement as weakening the team.

3) I think we're in equal danger under Bowyer of doing a Wigan than if we changed managers. Why? Well as the original post said I've massive reservations about team selection and tactics. In fact I feel Bowyer massively under-performed last season. Given he managed a top 10 finish with a very good squad what's he likely to do with a squad that (as is) should be mid-table? Think if we extrapolate under the last 2 seasons of under-performing, that means a team that should finish mid-table will likely under him under-achieve and there's a good possibility that we'll be in a relegation scrap.

Don't get me wrong I don't hate Bowyer (although some of his comments at times wind me up massively.) I acknowledge the job he did when he steered us away from relegation. I don't even begrudge them giving him a season as permanent although personally I'd have gone for someone more experienced. But I love Rovers and want the best for them. And Bowyer is not best for us as manager.

[Coatbridge rover]

Age is 31 although what is childish about my post I'm at a loss to see. Still that's a new one for me on here - been on here around 9/10 years and never had that questioned before.

As I stated am not blaming him for the embargo but stating it'll be harder post embargo for him and he didn't achieve before that hindrance.

2 top 10 finishes when you need promotion is not success. 2 top 10 finishes with the squad we had cannot be classed as success. Likewise when seeing the wage budget.

Oh and there's all the reservations I mentioned in my original post.

Your 31 only known the good times, ask anyone over 40 they'll tell you how bad things have been in our darkest hrs.

[Iceman]

That's the past, we can't change that. Focus on what's in front now, and sort those issues out. Otherwise, in 20 years time, the discussion will be about how bad things were in 2015

[Rover_Shaun]

Under the current management League 1 will come eventually......even out of FFP

We need three things to happen. Preferably during a summer or even after Easter as the season peter's out.

It's too late now. Unless we are in serious trouble then I can see the first part of number 1 and the whole of number number 2 being overlooked and the latter part of number 3

1) Remove Shaw and pay up Bowyers contract with thanks

2) Replace Shaw with someone with credibility and business acumen to run the club WITHOUT the need to ask Pune on every decision. Like JW before him under the trust they need to be given a remit. People say Venkies are minted so lets employ THE best.

3) Shaw's replacement to search for and replace the manager. Also without Pune interference.

This basically means writing off this season and possibly the next but it's the only way if the crackpots are hanging around for the foreseeable.

[Blue blood]

Your 31 only known the good times, ask anyone over 40 they'll tell you how bad things have been in our darkest hrs.

My word, another first. First time I've been called not a proper fan before.

And yes, I've mainly known good times but I'm still here after several times relegated. And I'd warrant that the Kean era is worst than any others, as the club's being bled dry from within.

Anyhow you're new to the board, but I should probably point out - generally it's frowned upon to say I'm a better fan etc. Also it kinda shows that your arguments aren't standing on their own merit...

[Coatbridge rover]

I've not called you a fan off any description.What I am saying is you have only known the good times,come to the wee rovers if your ever in Scotland that's were the proper supporters are in the lower leagues with very little chance off success.

[barry_]

I've not called you a fan off any description.What I am saying is you have only known the good times,come to the wee rovers if your ever in Scotland that's were the proper supporters are in the lower leagues with very little chance off success.

it's all relative. Does it matter if someone has been supporting the club for x amount of years or xxx?? Anyone can go to a lower/non league game and still feel the same joy/anguish as any football fan feels?.

[Blue blood]

I've not called you a fan off any description.What I am saying is you have only known the good times,come to the wee rovers if your ever in Scotland that's were the proper supporters are in the lower leagues with very little chance off success.

Um - again where to start.

Firstly this post seems to imply proper fans are only those who only witness lower league football. I'd say that's rating fans.

Secondly you're saying my age makes me incapable of making a judgement on Bowyer etc. because I haven't witnessed lower league stuff. I can't even begin to start with how illogical this argument is, or the ramifications it would have for a message board if true!

Anyhow so others don't get tired of it, why not resort to PMs if you've any more comments to me on this.

[roverandout]

Your 31 only known the good times, ask anyone over 40 they'll tell you how bad things have been in our darkest hrs.

That's irrelevant to today though, rovers were a thriving premier league club for nearly 20 years and now we have to accept crap because venkys put us in this embargo? Something bowyer is partly responsible for as his incompetence failed to get us out of this league for 2 seasons

[Coatbridge rover]

Venkys are responsible for the position we are in blame Mr Bowyer if you must it might make you feel better.

[roverandout]

Well yes he does take partial responsibility, he manages the team, his target was to get rovers out of this division, he failed, twice.

[Coatbridge rover]

His failure to get us out of this division,well if he can keep us in it this year I'll be very happy.We have Venkys as owners and a nobender as chairman.Its like if you survive the hanging the electric chair awaits.Save your anger for those who deserve it.

[Baz]

His failure to get us out of this division,well if he can keep us in it this year I'll be very happy.We have Venkys as owners and a nobender as chairman.Its like if you survive the hanging the electric chair awaits.Save your anger for those who deserve it.

Another free ride for GB. Exactly the problem we have.

Did you listen to the radio 5 interview? Gary Rowett at Birmingham can't afford to pay what we can whilst under the embargo. What did he talk about - getting results and improving.

[chaddyrovers]

Yup we aiming to release it as a podcast, just trying to pin him down to a date.

Weekly podcasts will be up and running soonish.

Thanks Kamy for the replied.

[matt83]

Your 31 only known the good times, ask anyone over 40 they'll tell you how bad things have been in our darkest hrs.

So in the 1970s rovers were relegated to div 3 in 1971 stayed down for 5 seasons promoted in 1975 under Gordon lee relegated again in 1979 under jim iley promoted again in 1980. (Nb. May have got some dates and personnel wrong)

On paper 3rd tier is worse than 2nd tier but during that period did you really feel worse about the club than this venkys and steve kean era?

I can't comment as its before my time and you may see it differently but the older family members say the venkys era is and continues to be far worse than it ever was in the 1970s. Paraphrasing but they tell me back then for all we were rubbish and iley set the benchmark for incompetence before kean came along there was a proper club we're all in this together feel, a community club that didn't have a penny but not massive unserviceable debts either. A club jack ultimately built on.

Fast forward to today the owners have shown nothing but contempt for the fans and have seemingly no knowledge or passion for football. The boardroom isn't fit for purpose and the manager whilst working under terrible circumstances is a nobody going nowhere in the game. There's huge disconnect between the fans and the club.

[martonrover]

So in the 1970s rovers were relegated to div 3 in 1971 stayed down for 5 seasons promoted in 1975 under Gordon lee relegated again in 1979 under jim iley promoted again in 1980. (Nb. May have got some dates and personnel wrong)

On paper 3rd tier is worse than 2nd tier but during that period did you really feel worse about the club than this venkys and steve kean era?

I can't comment as its before my time and you may see it differently but the older family members say the venkys era is and continues to be far worse than it ever was in the 1970s. Paraphrasing but they tell me back then for all we were rubbish and iley set the benchmark for incompetence before kean came along there was a proper club we're all in this together feel, a community club that didn't have a penny but not massive unserviceable debts either. A club jack ultimately built on.

Fast forward to today the owners have shown nothing but contempt for the fans and have seemingly no knowledge or passion for football. The boardroom isn't fit for purpose and the manager whilst working under terrible circumstances is a nobody going nowhere in the game. There's huge disconnect between the fans and the club.

Nail on the head. I keep reading comments on social media that people are only complaining because they've been spoiled.

The reality is exactly what you've said.