[Archived] The Gary Bowyer Thread

[Stuart]

Love it, Shaun. I take it I'm Will Hay and you are the old captain fella!

Btw, how old are you??

[JBiz]

1. But they are excuses. Necessary ones if people are trying to find positives about Bowyer being manager but excuses nonetheless.

2. I don't want Bowyer to fail, I want him to leave before he takes Rovers with him. It's not that he wants bad things for Rovers - quite the opposite - he will surely want the best for us. But wanting it and being able to deliver it are two different things.

3. He has had his best chance at doing so with the resources he has been given. He has been a failure where it matters - on the pitch. Up there with the best resources in the league and it's been squandered. I've been consistently saying he was the wrong manager since watching how he misued our midfield resources in order to play cautious, negative, dire football instead of taking the game to the opposition. Watching his hand forced into attacking, and the players responding, and getting results, only for negativity to return once his favourites were fit again. His supporters say he is learning, his continued actions say otherwise. Lowe will almost certainly start tomorrow for instance.

4. His successes involve Rudy Gestede and Tom Cairney being sold for "3000% mark ups". The timing of those sales are starting to seem like deliver at to show Venkys that he can make them money so don't replace him. But I'm a football fan, a Rovers fan, so selling players isn't all that exciting unless they are replaced with players of pedigree. Maybe Delfounso will be a like-for-like for Rudy but the jury is out on that one.

5. Tell you what though, Joe, you tell me what you think he has done better than an experienced manager would have done? Apart from put up with Venkys. Bowyer has had things very much his own way since he came in. All of the in-fighting had stopped and the antagonists gone. He was allowed to sign players and keep players. We ran out of time for FFP on his watch. His punishment? Carry on as you are.

The trouble is that we know where this cyclic debate will end up. It will be back to the need for Venkys to leave before we can move on.

Bear in mind though that my posts on this topic (and the Rhodes debate) are in response to others comments and not just new posts. Go and look. If people stop trying to recreate history or to lay the blame on other areas, I will respond. As no doubt will you.

1. All scenarios will have pro's and cons - regardless of how staunched ones viewpoint is. For example, I don't like the tory party at all, I think they will destroy the north of England eventually but I imagine there are certain changes that they make that will benefit me in one way or another. Gary is not "the tories" haha - what I am suggesting is people don't to "try and find" positives, there are plenty to see for all. At the same time, there is certainly some negatives or cons to go with pro's.

2. In your opinion he will take us down, destroy us etc.... I can't see how you could look at the past two years and come to that expectation. I honestly can't. You are more than welcome to this summary, I just find it unfathomable that you are so convinced he is essentially terrible. I can see big gaping holes in elements of his work, but I also see some of the good things he's done on the pitch and elsewhere. I expect you would probably want an on the pitch example - Marcus Olsson good enough for you?

3. I don't full disagree - needs to shape up at home especially. I completely disagree with the "style" element though, because the problem hasn't been misuse of midfielders creatively or relying on the top two - the problem (for me) has been finding a consistent blend of tactics that succeeds in this league. When you compound that with occassional poor in play subs - we've dropped some points we really shouldnt have. We've also perfomed excellently on occasions - which is why I mention consistency. Thats never really happened for one reason or another. Call injuries excuses, I call them reality. Call younger inexperienced players performing inconsistency a result of poor tactics, I call it the reality of development. I have a tendency to agree with others and yourself, who think he gets outfoxed by clever managers. As I've said umpteen times, we've needed an experienced manager since they day we lost Big Sam. Its not worth even examining why that seems impossible.

As for the favourites - I just can't abide by it to be honest. Why is the holier than holy Dyche after Hanley if he's only in the team because his mate is the gaffer? I'm not even going to entertain the point about Lowe, because we are poles apart on opinions of what he offers.

4. How did those players raise their values? Good performance. Nuff said. Gary can say whatever he wants if he gets good performances out of players, and it wont matter if he starts coming across better in interviews if the team is playing poorly. I used to think Mark Hughes was sulky and boring in interviews, but I certainly didn't care about that. Whilst I hate losing Rudy (I would've given him a huge contract and sold rhodes if one had to go) its hard to ignore that the clubs hands have been tied by the gambling that went on back in the day. Whilst you and Shaun keep looking at GBs tenure in isolation, I find it hard to ignore the damage that was done immediately previous. Looking at the dealings again, listening to the manager and Tommy Johnson - you can see the effort thats gone in to try and get some new blood into the team - I agree the jurys out on all the signings and its great to agree with you on that - they all deserve a chance, Glen Mullans 20 games each will do me fine.

5. As I said - the seeds of financial ruin where sown in 2010 to 2012 - to blame GB for FUP is completely bizarre.. as if he needs punishing anymore than having to work in the transfer market he has done. I could shout till I'm blue in the face about how we would've done better with a time served manager but you seem to ignore that - Why ignore the cyclical argument you mention when you reply to any posts on GB? The antagonists, gravy train brigade and 5000 miles between the pitch and the Madame still remain in one form or another - and another summer of no communication just highlights how we are all well and truly in the dark about what is best for this football club. If it was a simple as "pot GB, hire Pulis, Premier League, sorted" we'd all be working as consultants for Venkys.

The theory about being given free reign to sign whoever he wants is also not exactly true as i'm sure any manager wouldve preferred to spend money on new players, not paying value-less ones off. Just look at Veevs post from earlier - the sheer amount of dross that we had on the books at that time, compounded with older ex prem players on big wages, or players wanting to leave. The tag of having the "biggest budget in the league" is not something GB and his staff probably enjoyed considering he inherited 5 players who cost more than 150k a week combined (Robbo, Best, Etuhu, Murphy, Rhodes) and only one who was any use. Thats 7.5m a year with at least 5m a year wasted. Thats ignoring the Givets, Pedersens, Martin Olssons, Formica, Rochina, Scott Danns etc who also left and probably earned a fair whack. Using Duffy as an example as a straight replacement for Dann - how much do you think they earned comparatively and how much of the Dann fee did Duffy cost? Of course he has made some weird signings and some haven't done well, but thats the same for every manager.

6. Recreating history is one thing - ignoring it is one thing I feel your posts show. I'm sure you see the MM lite jibe as non-offensive, I just hope we win some games to cheer you up this coming season!

[Rover_Shaun]

Love it, Shaun. I take it I'm Will Hay and you are the old captain fella!

Btw, how old are you??

Only 40 but Will Hay films were on tv in the mornings during the skoo holidays

[G Somerset Rover]

Steeley may want to have a word with Gary then:

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/rovers/news/13579561.Blackburn_Rovers_keeper_Jason_Steele_not_interested_in_embargo_excuses/?ref=mac

[Stuart]

1. All scenarios will have pro's and cons - regardless of how staunched ones viewpoint is. For example, I don't like the tory party at all, I think they will destroy the north of England eventually but I imagine there are certain changes that they make that will benefit me in one way or another. Gary is not "the tories" haha - what I am suggesting is people don't to "try and find" positives, there are plenty to see for all. At the same time, there is certainly some negatives or cons to go with pro's.

2. In your opinion he will take us down, destroy us etc.... I can't see how you could look at the past two years and come to that expectation. I honestly can't. You are more than welcome to this summary, I just find it unfathomable that you are so convinced he is essentially terrible. I can see big gaping holes in elements of his work, but I also see some of the good things he's done on the pitch and elsewhere. I expect you would probably want an on the pitch example - Marcus Olsson good enough for you?

3. I don't full disagree - needs to shape up at home especially. I completely disagree with the "style" element though, because the problem hasn't been misuse of midfielders creatively or relying on the top two - the problem (for me) has been finding a consistent blend of tactics that succeeds in this league. When you compound that with occassional poor in play subs - we've dropped some points we really shouldnt have. We've also perfomed excellently on occasions - which is why I mention consistency. Thats never really happened for one reason or another. Call injuries excuses, I call them reality. Call younger inexperienced players performing inconsistency a result of poor tactics, I call it the reality of development. I have a tendency to agree with others and yourself, who think he gets outfoxed by clever managers. As I've said umpteen times, we've needed an experienced manager since they day we lost Big Sam. Its not worth even examining why that seems impossible.

As for the favourites - I just can't abide by it to be honest. Why is the holier than holy Dyche after Hanley if he's only in the team because his mate is the gaffer? I'm not even going to entertain the point about Lowe, because we are poles apart on opinions of what he offers.

4. How did those players raise their values? Good performance. Nuff said. Gary can say whatever he wants if he gets good performances out of players, and it wont matter if he starts coming across better in interviews if the team is playing poorly. I used to think Mark Hughes was sulky and boring in interviews, but I certainly didn't care about that. Whilst I hate losing Rudy (I would've given him a huge contract and sold rhodes if one had to go) its hard to ignore that the clubs hands have been tied by the gambling that went on back in the day. Whilst you and Shaun keep looking at GBs tenure in isolation, I find it hard to ignore the damage that was done immediately previous. Looking at the dealings again, listening to the manager and Tommy Johnson - you can see the effort thats gone in to try and get some new blood into the team - I agree the jurys out on all the signings and its great to agree with you on that - they all deserve a chance, Glen Mullans 20 games each will do me fine.

5. As I said - the seeds of financial ruin where sown in 2010 to 2012 - to blame GB for FUP is completely bizarre.. as if he needs punishing anymore than having to work in the transfer market he has done. I could shout till I'm blue in the face about how we would've done better with a time served manager but you seem to ignore that - Why ignore the cyclical argument you mention when you reply to any posts on GB? The antagonists, gravy train brigade and 5000 miles between the pitch and the Madame still remain in one form or another - and another summer of no communication just highlights how we are all well and truly in the dark about what is best for this football club. If it was a simple as "pot GB, hire Pulis, Premier League, sorted" we'd all be working as consultants for Venkys.

The theory about being given free reign to sign whoever he wants is also not exactly true as i'm sure any manager wouldve preferred to spend money on new players, not paying value-less ones off. Just look at Veevs post from earlier - the sheer amount of dross that we had on the books at that time, compounded with older ex prem players on big wages, or players wanting to leave. The tag of having the "biggest budget in the league" is not something GB and his staff probably enjoyed considering he inherited 5 players who cost more than 150k a week combined (Robbo, Best, Etuhu, Murphy, Rhodes) and only one who was any use. Thats 7.5m a year with at least 5m a year wasted. Thats ignoring the Givets, Pedersens, Martin Olssons, Formica, Rochina, Scott Danns etc who also left and probably earned a fair whack. Using Duffy as an example as a straight replacement for Dann - how much do you think they earned comparatively and how much of the Dann fee did Duffy cost? Of course he has made some weird signings and some haven't done well, but thats the same for every manager.

6. Recreating history is one thing - ignoring it is one thing I feel your posts show. I'm sure you see the MM lite jibe as non-offensive, I just hope we win some games to cheer you up this coming season!

A good post. Obviously we disagree on most of it. I think I would sum up our differences on Bowyer as: if he does 100 things, he gets 11 things right. You believe this proves he has some qualities. I believe that the 89 wrong things show that he doesn't have enough of what we need.

You will talk about Dyche's interest in Hanley to show that Hanley has talent. I'd say that it shows that Dyche has more idea how to get the best out of him.

The idea that he made money on two players shows that he is getting performances out of players: for every Gestede there are half a dozen Judges. For every Cairney there are half a dozen Marrows. It's selecting the minority successes and paining then as the majority, and sweeping the other stuff under the carpet in the hope that it will be forgotten. (And frequently it is). "Let's just move on".

Talk of Etuhu, Murphy, Best to show how unlucky Gaz has been. Can you imagine those three under a respected manager like Souness? They wouldn't have dossed around put it that way. Robbo and Rhodes: one frozen out (and stil paid those big bucks) when he was still our best keeper. He daren't freeze Rhodes out and it appears Rhodes has got his head down and put up with being benched in favour of Brown at times. I strongly believe that Gaz would love to sell Rhodes and get that pressure off his shoulders. Of course, losing Rhodes and Gestede would then be used as an excuse by Bowyer and his followers. Life under Bowyer's culture seems to cosy and pally.

[DE.]

Steeley may want to have a word with Gary then:

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/rovers/news/13579561.Blackburn_Rovers_keeper_Jason_Steele_not_interested_in_embargo_excuses/?ref=mac

Why is it our goalkeeper can come out with exactly what the fans want to hear, whilst the manager drones on about player profit percentages?

[JBiz]

A good post. Obviously we disagree on most of it. I think I would sum up our differences on Bowyer as: if he does 100 things, he gets 11 things right. You believe this proves he has some qualities. I believe that the 89 wrong things show that he doesn't have enough of what we need.

You will talk about Dyche's interest in Hanley to show that Hanley has talent. I'd say that it shows that Dyche has more idea how to get the best out of him.

1. The idea that he made money on two players shows that he is getting performances out of players: for every Gestede there are half a dozen Judges. For every Cairney there are half a dozen Marrows. It's selecting the minority successes and paining then as the majority, and sweeping the other stuff under the carpet in the hope that it will be forgotten. (And frequently it is). "Let's just move on".

2. Talk of Etuhu, Murphy, Best to show how unlucky Gaz has been. Can you imagine those three under a respected manager like Souness? They wouldn't have dossed around put it that way. Robbo and Rhodes: one frozen out (and stil paid those big bucks) when he was still our best keeper. He daren't freeze Rhodes out and it appears Rhodes has got his head down and put up with being benched in favour of Brown at times. I strongly believe that Gaz would love to sell Rhodes and get that pressure off his shoulders. Of course, losing Rhodes and Gestede would then be used as an excuse by Bowyer and his followers. Life under Bowyer's culture seems to cosy and pally.

1. If a player comes in on a free - his wages will likely be lower than if a fee has been paid. That is just common sense based on the player has no contract thus will sign for less. Obviously this isn't always the case because of your Hoiletts, Kings etc - players who want to run down their deals.

Whilst taking that into account - can you name a signing we've made thats cost real money and been a failure? If you asked me that question I would be saying that Evans has been the worst so far but I think thats partially down to injuries first season and a poor second - On the subject of Evans, I think we will be more effective in a 4231/451 - very similar to Lowe for me but I wouldn't sack him off yet as he is young and likely on a manageable wage.

I'm struggling to name names for these handful of Marrows/Judges? Free cheap waged none proven at top level players to replace outgoing old paid off or out of contract squad players was common sense.

2. Souness would have had those lads out the door faster than you can say Kentaro. No doubt Souey in his pomp wouldve probably got us up in those two seasons but thats going back to the cyclical discussion.

I find it worrying that you think Etuhu and Best could have been salvaged. Robbo - thats a different story, he was half the player after the blood clot in my opinion. Made a big difference to him, I think the main thing was mental. Whilst Al is convinced that this opinon is false, there are others who agree - Khod was at bpool away last season, and Robbo made us both squirm. Reputation aside, he was not the England international we bought.

Finally - quit the "bowyers followers" stuff. It's childish - we all support Rovers, thats it. Want the best for the club in the circumstances. When you say stuff like that it just makes me think you've planted yourself in the opposite of the "Bowyer follower", as if you've got some sort of agenda against those who might see the 11 out of 100 more like 50/50

[Stuart]

Finally - quit the "bowyers followers" stuff. It's childish - we all support Rovers, thats it. Want the best for the club in the circumstances. When you say stuff like that it just makes me think you've planted yourself in the opposite of the "Bowyer follower", as if you've got some sort of agenda against those who might see the 11 out of 100 more like 50/50

But it's true. There are those that see anyone with a Roverd badge and think they should be supported. There were plenty on here who felt Kean should have been given more support. For me it's seperate. You CAN support Rovers and not the manager. Others can't see it.

50/50? No chance. But even then - on any given day he can get something wrong as easily as get it right? I want the guy organising my team to be getting better than 50% of decisions right. At least pick the right team more often than the wrong one - when given the choice.

I don't know why we do this dance, Joe. We'll never agree. But at least we can do so without falling out these days.

[JBiz]

I don't know why we do this dance, Joe. We'll never agree. But at least we can do so without falling out these days.

Ha yes at least. Things can change pretty quickly but you can guarantee we will be having the same discussion for some time if the inconsistency remains.

[K-Hod]

We all sit in the Riverside, let's have a pint sometime

[Parsonblue]

But it's true. There are those that see anyone with a Roverd badge and think they should be supported. There were plenty on here who felt Kean should have been given more support. For me it's seperate. You CAN support Rovers and not the manager. Others can't see it.

I would agree with you to a point Stuart that certain managers lose support very quickly - and deservedly so. I can think of Iley, Ince and Kean who one felt needed removing sooner rather than later. The reason I support Bowyer is simple - I actually believe that given all the circumstances he has done a decent job. If I didn't then I too would want a change sooner rather than later. As always with football it's a game of opinions - the discussions with regard to Rhodes being another good example. Some see only strengths and others only his weaknesses whilst the truth is probably somewhere in the middle. So it is with Bowyer. However, the important thing is that we can discuss it with resorting to insults and that has to make the forum a better place to be.

[OJRovers]

1. If a player comes in on a free - his wages will likely be lower than if a fee has been paid. That is just common sense based on the player has no contract thus will sign for less. Obviously this isn't always the case because of your Hoiletts, Kings etc - players who want to run down their deals.

Whilst taking that into account - can you name a signing we've made thats cost real money and been a failure? If you asked me that question I would be saying that Evans has been the worst so far but I think thats partially down to injuries first season and a poor second - On the subject of Evans, I think we will be more effective in a 4231/451 - very similar to Lowe for me but I wouldn't sack him off yet as he is young and likely on a manageable wage.

I'm struggling to name names for these handful of Marrows/Judges? Free cheap waged none proven at top level players to replace outgoing old paid off or out of contract squad players was common sense.

2. Souness would have had those lads out the door faster than you can say Kentaro. No doubt Souey in his pomp wouldve probably got us up in those two seasons but thats going back to the cyclical discussion.

I find it worrying that you think Etuhu and Best could have been salvaged. Robbo - thats a different story, he was half the player after the blood clot in my opinion. Made a big difference to him, I think the main thing was mental. Whilst Al is convinced that this opinon is false, there are others who agree - Khod was at bpool away last season, and Robbo made us both squirm. Reputation aside, he was not the England international we bought.

Finally - quit the "bowyers followers" stuff. It's childish - we all support Rovers, thats it. Want the best for the club in the circumstances. When you say stuff like that it just makes me think you've planted yourself in the opposite of the "Bowyer follower", as if you've got some sort of agenda against those who might see the 11 out of 100 more like 50/50

What you're talking about is Bowyer's performance in the transfer market. What he should be measured on is performance on the pitch. What examples do you have of success there (apart from Markus Ollson who only got a chance because Spurr got injured)?

Here are my examples of poor performance:

- Changes tactic every game, sometimes the players look like they don't know their role.

- Lack of motivation

- Judge went on to be one of the best dynamic midfielders in the league, exactly what we needed.

- He didn't play King

- Cairney was wasted on the wing

- First name on the teamsheet is Hanley, despite Baptiste/Killa/Duffy being better

- He doesn't know how to play to Rhodes' strengths

- Substitutions usually lose us the match

[JBiz]

What you're talking about is Bowyer's performance in the transfer market. What he should be measured on is performance on the pitch. What examples do you have of success there (apart from Markus Ollson who only got a chance because Spurr got injured)?

Here are my examples of poor performance:

- Changes tactic every game, sometimes the players look like they don't know their role.

- Lack of motivation

- Judge went on to be one of the best dynamic midfielders in the league, exactly what we needed.

- He didn't play King

- Cairney was wasted on the wing

- First name on the teamsheet is Hanley, despite Baptiste/Killa/Duffy being better

- He doesn't know how to play to Rhodes' strengths

- Substitutions usually lose us the match

Some of that's i agree with but from the outset of his appointment we improved as whole from the previous season. We haven't stepped it up due to a couple of your points but I think there are still more positives than just Olssons form. Typically, that would be put down to Spurrs injury rather than give credit to his obvious development. Williamson had a good season last year, Henley, Taylor, Gestede and Conway all improved in ways IMO and that's down to work on the training pitch.

Playing to rhodes strength is also something that I would disagree with, because signing Brown was a sign that GB didn't see Gestede and JR having the right Chemistry. Looking at the switch to 451 rather than an enforced 442 due to having two excellent strikers - perhaps that's with Rhodes in mind or to settle issues with lacking quality in centre mid.

I don't think GB needs to change the style, just the mentality. We need to be tougher, consistent and more confident to not fall backwards to our own box.

Is he capable of getting a "Hughes" like product in the pitch? I doubt it but we are closer to being effective than the opposite IMO.

[Stuart]

We all sit in the Riverside, let's have a pint sometime

Don't tend to drink at games as I have my lads with me. But the offer is appreciated. Rain check.

[mustard]

What you're talking about is Bowyer's performance in the transfer market. What he should be measured on is performance on the pitch. What examples do you have of success there (apart from Markus Ollson who only got a chance because Spurr got injured)?

Here are my examples of poor performance:

- Changes tactic every game, sometimes the players look like they don't know their role.

- Lack of motivation

- Judge went on to be one of the best dynamic midfielders in the league, exactly what we needed.

- He didn't play King

- Cairney was wasted on the wing

- First name on the teamsheet is Hanley, despite Baptiste/Killa/Duffy being better

- He doesn't know how to play to Rhodes' strengths

- Substitutions usually lose us the match

I'd also argue player fitness is down to Bowyer and his coaching team. Last season, the team looked slower and less fit. Looked stronger but certainly much slower. We picked up injuries, especially little niggles, left, right and centre. We've already started on the injury front this summer, with a number of players missing chunks of pre-season.

One season of injuries = bad luck. Going into our third (and a half) season with the same injury problems = more than simply bad luck. I think there is a fundamental problem at coaching level.

[Stuart]

I would agree with you to a point Stuart that certain managers lose support very quickly - and deservedly so. I can think of Iley, Ince and Kean who one felt needed removing sooner rather than later. The reason I support Bowyer is simple - I actually believe that given all the circumstances he has done a decent job. If I didn't then I too would want a change sooner rather than later. As always with football it's a game of opinions - the discussions with regard to Rhodes being another good example. Some see only strengths and others only his weaknesses whilst the truth is probably somewhere in the middle. So it is with Bowyer. However, the important thing is that we can discuss it with resorting to insults and that has to make the forum a better place to be.

Something changed when Venkys arrived though. They backed Kean beyond what was credible or reasonable. It was two fingers to the fans. Berg and Appleton were then given no time and no backing and had to put up with in-fighting and undermining - we'll never know if they could have done better. My gut feeling is that Berg could have and Appleton couldn't but it's just an opinion.

With Bowyer the only reason people have put forward for not getting shut is that Venkys won't replace him with better. Sorry but that's not a good enough reason to 'get behind him'. He's either good enough or he's not. For me he's not. The longer that mindset continues the more it will manifest itself as the need to remove Venkys whatever the cost.

A football club has to have a good relationship with the fans. The feeling should be that it belongs to the fans - even if it's an illusion. With this lot it's the opposite. The overriding feeling is that this club belongs to Venkys and we'd all better get used to it. At least until it's no longer of use/concern to them, at which point we will be tossed aside. They don't care about this club, never have. If they did then they would have brought in the best people they could get to run it for them. Nay, even earlier they wouldn't have brought about the departures of the best people we already had. The amount of money they've thrown away taking us down the league. If they'd have given half of that to Williams and Allardyce...

Bowyer may be the good guy and may be doing his best, for that reason I'd like him to stay at the club in some capacity but he has shown that no matter what the personnel, whatever the formation - and must have tried every combination of both (including no less than 5, FIVE, different goalkeepers). If he keeps tossing that coin he is bound to get the occasional win. It takes four or five poor results in a row before the mood on here turns ugly - even Chaddy wanted him out before announcing on Twitter his plan to go WUM and backtrack - but just look at the vitriol on here after only a one-off (or rare back-to-back) win. The "I told you so's" and baiting that goes on is ridiculously disproportionate to the event.

People do want him to succeed - myself included - but the time for him to get it right is not infinite. Granted he (and Rhodes' goals) saved us from relegation when he was caretaker but then they promoted him immediately following that. Promotion from within - ignoring the opportunities to see if there are better options (e.g. Kinder, Johnson) - is endemic at the club. His time as manager proper has seen us stagnate, downgrade and fall, wasting the parachute payment advantage and ending up in a transfer embargo due to Venkys backing him (he can have zero complaints about the owners - and is one of the few people alive who can say that). Yet people say he has progressed. Maybe he has, personally, but the club's standing has been lowered with each passing season.

Deck chairs on the Titanic is a very apt cliché, sadly. Some on here though would ask those 'overreacting' to pipe down so they can listen to the band playing!

[mustard]

Some of that's i agree with but from the outset of his appointment we improved as whole from the previous season. We haven't stepped it up due to a couple of your points but I think there are still more positives than just Olssons form. Typically, that would be put down to Spurrs injury rather than give credit to his obvious development. Williamson had a good season last year, Henley, Taylor, Gestede and Conway all improved in ways IMO and that's down to work on the training pitch.

Playing to rhodes strength is also something that I would disagree with, because signing Brown was a sign that GB didn't see Gestede and JR having the right Chemistry. Looking at the switch to 451 rather than an enforced 442 due to having two excellent strikers - perhaps that's with Rhodes in mind or to settle issues with lacking quality in centre mid.

I don't think GB needs to change the style, just the mentality. We need to be tougher, consistent and more confident to not fall backwards to our own box.

Is he capable of getting a "Hughes" like product in the pitch? I doubt it but we are closer to being effective than the opposite IMO.

Henley was omitted for a huge chunk of the season but was a positive towards the end of the campaign. Taylor, however? He looked to offer us something different yet was largely left out by GB. He played well in some games, not so well in others (usually out of position as he's NOT a centre mid). Conway was a positive last season but not as good as the season before. I'd say Gestede, Olsson, Conway, Kilgallon were the only consistent performers last season. That's four out of how many? For those four players, I could argue a number more players regressed/failed to perform. Rhodes, Hanley, Duffy, Marshall, Evans, Brown, Spearing, Williamson, Lowe, Cairney, etc. Some might argue Willo performed, but he was simply the best of a bad bunch of CMs. I think Bowyer brought out the best in a few players at the expense of the team.

Last sentence, I'd say we are just as far away from being effective as we've ever been. I've seen no improvements in the style of play, results, subs or tactics in the last year compared with the season before. These problems have been around since he took over. If he can't fix them in nearly three years, how can we expect this to change any time soon? Under Bowyer, we will always be a 'nearly' team. He's not terrible and he seems like a nice guy so he gets a bit of a free pass, simple fact is he isn't what we need right now. He isn't up to the task at hand and never will be IMO.

[den]

As always with football it's a game of opinions - the discussions with regard to Rhodes being another good example. Some see only strengths and others only his weaknesses

I completely refute that Parson. Rather condescending really.

[Hi Mack]

Jeez just listened to the Radio Lancashire interview with Bowyer!!

Mr Charisma, I hope his team talks are a little more animated!!

[Gav]

At 3pm tomorrow I'm 110% behind Gary Bowyer.

As Blackburn fans thats we do.

[Hi Mack]

At 3pm tomorrow I'm 110% behind Gary Bowyer.

As Blackburn fans thats we do.

Agreed, boring or not we need to get behind all of the lads!

[DE.]

I'm sure the fans will be behind Bowyer and the team, as they were last season.

The only manager I've seen (or known of) getting a really nasty first game of the season reception was Kean at the start of our first Championship season. I was there to watch us play Ipswich at Portman Road and as soon as he walked out the away end erupted in a chorus of boos and "Kean Out". It was basically like the summer had never happened and we were just continuing on from the final game of the previous season.

I don't think Bowyer will ever receive that kind of hatred, and nor should he.

[martonrover]

All honourable sentiments above but the reality will be a few indecipherable murmured chants from the Rovers' sections and plenty of singing from the 3,000 + Wolves fans, (although hopefully not at the final whistle).

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

At 3pm tomorrow I'm 110% behind Gary Bowyer.

As Blackburn fans thats we do.

Absolutely hilarious post given your "support" of our last actually good manager Big Sam.

As Rovers fans what we do is symptomatic of any football fans. We're fickle and prone to criticise as often as we are to support.

Unfortunately whilst some of us do it based on results and points, many do it based on style of football, how long a manager has been at the club, how genuine he sounds in interviews and other such subjective, laughable barometers.

[Baz]

Good luck to the boys & GB tomorrow, hope you prove me totally wrong.

C'mon uuuu blooozzzzz!