[Archived] The Gary Bowyer Thread

[JHRover]

Sorry, I don't recall moaning about inexperience fella...I have moaned about Bowyer never learning his lessons though, which you can't put down to inexperience anymore after 2 full seaosns in the job.

Just making the point that there are some decent manager's out there that might not necessarily be on everyone's lips, i'm sure you would agree with that. E.G. Look at who Norwich got last season to get them firing, his previous experience was getting Hamilton promoted to the SPL. It is not as simple as 'that guy has experience' every time. Not every 'experienced' manager is a success wherever they go...just saying.

You could say Nigel Adkins is proven in the championship based on his efforts with Southampton...but then look how he did at Reading.

Not you in particular, but one of the criticisms often levelled at Bowyer is that he simply doesn't have the know how or ability to handle a promotion campaign to the top flight (which is what we need to do). We've gone down the inexperienced route so many times and with the exception of Mark Hughes it hasn't worked. Kidd was a disaster, Ince a disaster, Kean a disaster, Berg a disaster, Appleton a disaster. Now people want Bowyer gone (who in my opinion has done a very good job), surely recent history should teach us to perhaps go for experience?

Adkins didn't actually do too badly at Reading. They were already half-relegated when he took over, then the following season they just missed out on the play-offs by finishing 7th. They had a poor start to last season but I think there were other issues there with the take over and financial problems. He's a good manager and I expect he'll win a 5th promotion in 9 years this season by getting Sheffield United promoted or will come very close.

In that case I think that the first requirement of our next manager should be someone who can point to a track record of success at this level. A 'lower risk' appointment by going down the tried and tested route.

Going for someone who has never managed above Accy Stanley's division and expecting them to suddenly get to grips with a club of Rovers' size and pressure would be a huge gamble, and one which doesn't need to be taken when there are people like Pearson and Lambert out there who have managed in this league and the Premier League with great success at similar sized clubs in the recent past.

Again its all speculation. I don't want Bowyer sacking but at the end of the day he should be judged on results and performances and if they don't come quickly then the pressure will rightly mount. Issues like the embargo and making profits on players are side-shows. The only issue for Bowyer should be results. If he manages to keep us clear of trouble, given the difficulties this summer, then he deserves to keep the job. But if we carry on losing games and shipping goals then a decision might need to be taken. However the problem we face I believe is that there will be absolutely no desire or intention from Venkys to change manager even if we are embroiled in the relegation dogfight this season.

[oldjamfan1]

I don't know it for a fact but whatever he said, it wasn't enough.

But there's a world of difference between the two. If he did hand out a bollocking, then he was doing his job. The onus is then on the players to react to it.

However if, as you strongly infer, he didn't (or isn't capable of) then that makes him absolutely culpable.

[T J Hooker]

As out of touch with football as the guy may be, i'd have souness back just to put a rocket under the players arses and get them fighting for a win. Bowyer isnt even assistant manager material in my book, he's just a bog standard coach.

[sharpysharps]

Not you in particular, but one of the criticisms often levelled at Bowyer is that he simply doesn't have the know how or ability to handle a promotion campaign to the top flight (which is what we need to do). We've gone down the inexperienced route so many times and with the exception of Mark Hughes it hasn't worked. Kidd was a disaster, Ince a disaster, Kean a disaster, Berg a disaster, Appleton a disaster. Now people want Bowyer gone (who in my opinion has done a very good job), surely recent history should teach us to perhaps go for experience?

Can't disagree with you on the facts of those previous manager's we've hired and have failed. I would say I thought Bowyer had done a good job for Rovers until last season when for me it started to go sour. This is a make or break season for him now, and early signs point towards break. Very early days this season but Huddersfield away is now a big one.

[Iceman]

Sevilla conceded 5 goals to Barcelona we only conceded 2 last night, so its not as bad as some people make out

Lol, Sevilla also scored 4 against the best team.

[Boz]

A youth development coach, a zebra cannot change it's spots.

[Iceman]

I'm not going to judge the manager on our performance in the League Cup. To take an example Man Utd here humiliated 4-0 at MK Dons last season. That didn't suddenly make Van Gaal a bad manager or mean he had to be sacked early in the season.

As ever I will judge the manager on league results, performances and position. Nothing else. Not his interviews and not how much money his signings make. So far we've lost one out of one. If we are at the wrong end of the division I would support a change in manager, but as long as he keeps us clear of trouble as he has the last two seasons then I would be fine with him remaining in place until the embargo is out of the way and he has had chance to operate as any other manager has in spending money on strengthening.

Bowyer has done himself no favours whatsoever, and after last night the spotlight will rightly be on him this weekend.

If our league position and results dictates that we have to make a change in manager (though I don't think Venkys will sack him in any event) then I refuse to accept that no decent manager would want to work here. For all our problems and dysfunctional state a manager would look at us as a club with potential, with owners still putting the money in and almost complete independence on the football side of the club. Once again we have people who would be prepared to accept a rookie from League One/Two rather than showing some ambition and going for a proven winner along the lines of Nigel Pearson or Paul Lambert.

Bolton are skint yet managed to appoint Neil Lennon whilst bottom of the league and Forest have similar problems to ourselves yet appointed Davies, Pearce and Freedman (though I'm not a fan of the latter).

Really? LVG? A manager who is actually a real manager, who has won titles as a manager. Then we get Bowyer, a youth team coach who doesn't even have faith in the youth, apart from a few pre season friendlies

[tomphil]

But there's a world of difference between the two. If he did hand out a bollocking, then he was doing his job. The onus is then on the players to react to it.

However if, as you strongly infer, he didn't (or isn't capable of) then that makes him absolutely culpable.

After watching his non contribution on the touchline last night I absolutely cannot see him handing out any firm words to anybody. A few miserable whines maybe followed by unlucky lads enjoy your day off tomorrow. Ffs !

[JHRover]

Really? LVG? A manager who is actually a real manager, who has won titles as a manager. Then we get Bowyer, a youth team coach who doesn't even have faith in the youth, apart from a few pre season friendlies

The point I was trying to make is that what happens in the League Cup doesn't really count for a lot. If it did then Van Gaal would have been booted out after one of the worst results and performances in United's recent history.

Getting dumped out of the Cup in humiliating fashion by a lower division side can happen to any club and any manager.

League form is the important part. If we win on Saturday most people will quickly put last night out of their minds, but get beat on Saturday and there will be even more knives out for Bowyer, and deservedly so, but a manager should not be axed after a League cup exit.

[Pedro]

The only developments I see in this man is he is growing in a kind of dismissive arrogance and he is becoming a seasoned blame shifter. He has the presence of a man who doesn't fear a bad result, or ultimately his job. I cannot think of an instance where he has been genuinely self critical.

[Iceman]

The point I was trying to make is that what happens in the League Cup doesn't really count for a lot. If it did then Van Gaal would have been booted out after one of the worst results and performances in United's recent history.

Getting dumped out of the Cup in humiliating fashion by a lower division side can happen to any club and any manager.

League form is the important part. If we win on Saturday most people will quickly put last night out of their minds, but get beat on Saturday and there will be even more knives out for Bowyer, and deservedly so, but a manager should not be axed after a League cup exit.

But this is not just about last night, its been coming now since last season.

You make mistake after mistake, and you learn nothing from it, then you deserve to be walking on thin ice.

The fans aren't stupid, but Venkys and Bowyer, are trying to make us look stupid, by doing whatever it takes to @#/? us off. If Bowyer had any decency , he would walk away from this job, and admit that he is incompetant.

But, its again a perfect situation where the money is so good, its just immorally correct to stick around and shaft the club a bit more.

As fans, we shouldn't allow this to happen. It's our club, and this club deserves better

[davulsukur]

But there's a world of difference between the two. If he did hand out a bollocking, then he was doing his job. The onus is then on the players to react to it.

However if, as you strongly infer, he didn't (or isn't capable of) then that makes him absolutely culpable.

It's merely my opinion but he doesn't seem the type to kick off Ferguson style.

In any case, he should know how the players would react he's the manager, it's his job. It was wrong to say he should have definitely torn strips off them, in reality he should know what was needed to gain a positive reaction but whatever he did, it didn't work.

He'd failed before we even kicked a ball anyway as the team once again didn't turn up from the start.

[oldjamfan1]

It's merely my opinion but he doesn't seem the type to kick off Ferguson style.

In any case, he should know how the players would react he's the manager, it's his job. It was wrong to say he should have definitely torn strips off them, in reality he should know what was needed to gain a positive reaction but whatever he did, it didn't work.

He'd failed before we even kicked a ball anyway as the team once again didn't turn up from the start.

If it turns out he didn't lambast them face to face but chose the media as a route to do that then we truly are goosed, because that's the dressing room lost, right there.

[roverandout]

Erm, Sevilla were playing the best team in Europe. We were playing Shrewsbury Town.

Just seen Bowyer's post match interview on Sky, grinning like a Cheshire Cat and cracking jokes about Rhodes.

Completely inappropriate after that debacle.

I know I was being sarcastic

[OJRovers]

A youth development coach, a zebra cannot change it's spots.

We're not developing much youth either at the minute.

[roverandout]

Nor can a leopard change its stripes

[mustard]

Bowyer's comments. Yikes. He sounds so out of his depth and out of touch, yet sounds like he's on easy street. I said last night that everything about the man screams complacency (PV I didn't respond to you last night but will explain now). The man isn't let down by the performance and doesn't feel we played bad according to his comments. First of all, that's baloney, it was dreadful. The fact the man barely seems arsed we've been knocked out shows how he treats the competition and the fans. Should have come to expect it after the last two years.

I feel there must be complacency on the training ground. It's as if Bowyer is playing Football Manager. Just sticks the players wherever their attributes suggest they'll be good enough and hopes for the best. It's all well and good starting with a rotated team, but the team needs to have a certain level of understanding. There were plenty of experienced players who have played together before. Why do they look like total strangers? There is no cohesion between the team whatsoever. Look at how Shrewsbury played. Every player had a role and their gameplan was executed very well. They passed us to death and looked to play diagonal balls between the CBs and FBs. What was our plan last night? Hell, what has been our plan the last near 3 years? Hoof and hope? There is no footballing identity under Bowyer, unless complacency can be suggested as one.

IMO, the players don't look arsed. They came out at half time and stood around like they didn't wanna be there. Everything about us screamed a lack of professionalism. The players don't seem to know what their roles are and it shows. The likes of Brown, who looks desperately unfit, are happy to pick up thousands a week and yet the 'arte et labore' is certainly lacking. The constant tinkering and swapping must drive the players mad and how is a player supposed to find any rhythm if he is swapped around not only every week, but umpteen times a game? The players look so unfit, again suggesting complacency. They look slow and cumbersome and I have no doubt that Bowyer's attitude reverberates throughout the players and staff. Shrewsbury out-worked us off the park and they fully deserved the win. In fact, I'd say they should have won by a bigger margin.

I can't see any desire or will to win from this team. I still think we've got a decent squad but our manager, in a lot of ways, is pants. You'll also notice how Bowyer didn't question the refereeing after the match, when we should have given away a penalty for blatant handball. I'm just infuriated with Rovers at the moment. Changes are needed before we can progress.

[mustard]

I sat right at the back of the JW but it was that quiet often you could hear a guy in the BBE screaming his opinions. Yes you could also often hear the Shrews bench but never ours they seem terrified of upsetting the players.

Haha I think I know who you mean. He was sat near me (N01 or 2) and he had a good voice to him. Kept shouting "bloody rubbish" or something and directed a few things at Bowyer. I wouldn't be surprised if he heard.

[davulsukur]

If it turns out he didn't lambast them face to face but chose the media as a route to do that then we truly are goosed, because that's the dressing room lost, right there.

Not sure he ever had it to lose. By the looks of it, he doesn't get the same respect (almost fearful, if you like) from his squad good managers get, probably stemmed from him being geared more towards being a coach than a manger.

We're goosed anyway, as others have posted he is a youth team coach in all but name. Phrases like "ever so well" and "give it a right good go" sound exactly like the sort of things you would be saying to academy players.

[Mattyblue]

Agree entirely mustard.

In his first season and up to Christmas last term, though I felt he was tactically poor, I did see a real fighting spirit from the players.

Since then a general malaise seems that have engulfed the squad, they look unfit, de-motivated and certainly not playing for the manager.

Watching the Shrewsbury warm up gave you an insight into the likely professional set up at their (presumably modest) training ground, a place that probably can't hold a candle to Brockhall, however whatever facilities you possess if the culture is not one that is geared to getting every ounce out of your players and moulding a real team ethic, you are going nowhere.

Into his third season and I've not got the foggiest to what his style of play is, the defence is worse than ever and the whole operation is crying out for a change.

[K-Hod]

When people go on about a 'style' of play, it's fairly defined I'd say.

1. Long goal kick to nowhere that ends up gifting play to the opposition.

2. A few 5 yard passes at the back from our ball fearing central midfielders, then a long hoof that ends up going nowhere.

Someone's description of 'Allardyce style football without the results' was bang on the money.

Defensive midfielders that don't really defend as well.....

[Gav]

Why should we be surprised that the players, manager and chairmen seem very relaxed about things, they don't seem to have a care in the world, no urgency, no pride, no passion.

They're a mirror image of the owners.

Can you imagine Jack Walker sitting in the stands watching the sort of the performances we've witnessed in the past 4/5yrs? Out in the first round of the cup 3 seasons on the trot? Can you hell, he'd have fired everyone top to bottom.

Everyone's on easy street at Ewood, sadly the fans are not....

When people go on about a 'style' of play, it's fairly defined I'd say.

1. Long goal kick to nowhere that ends up gifting play to the opposition.

2. A few 5 yard passes at the back from our ball fearing central midfielders, then a long hoof that ends up going nowhere.

Someone's description of 'Allardyce style football without the results' was bang on the money.

Defensive midfielders that don't really defend as well.....

Thats exactly what happens at football clubs when the manager runs out of ideas or the players are not good enough/not performing.

Desperation.

[Amo]

Then we get Bowyer, a youth team coach who doesn't even have faith in the youth, apart from a few pre season friendlies

I had to laugh when Bowyer said "I'm not afraid to give the young lads a go."

How many academy players has he actually brought on?

[Pedro]

When people go on about a 'style' of play, it's fairly defined I'd say.

1. Long goal kick to nowhere that ends up gifting play to the opposition.

2. A few 5 yard passes at the back from our ball fearing central midfielders, then a long hoof that ends up going nowhere.

Someone's description of 'Allardyce style football without the results' was bang on the money.

Defensive midfielders that don't really defend as well.....

Don't forget the El Hadji Diouf school of not getting a cross in early and our general 'anti-momentum' tactic.

[T J Hooker]

I had to laugh when Bowyer said "I'm not afraid to give the young lads a go."

How many academy players has he actually brought on?

im pretty certain he only gives the youths game time in pre season to put them in the shop window for all the visiting scouts at that time of the season.