[Archived] Leicester City vs Blackburn Rovers: Tuesday 17th September 2013

[West Yorks Rover]

Add Leicester away to West Ham Utd away as a definite bogey fixture.

A win on Saturday is important to get back on track.

Interesting looking at Palace's away record last season.

P23 W6 D7 L10

Home form going to be crucial

Bolton's was even worse

W4 D8 L11

Yet only missed play-offs on GD.

Fortress Ewood is what we need !

[roversR4ever]

Did you go Rovers4ever, because we have other reports saying we were poor last night?

I wasn't saying we were good or didn't mean too - we were terrible against them last year. If it came across as us good - we weren't. I went with a friend who is a Leicester fan. He thought were better than last year but still pretty poor.

The aim from my post was that it did not work having Cairney further forwards and that needs to be changed quickly. Leicester without a shadow of a doubt were better than us - quite a bit better. Our passing was poor and I genuinely believe with out Cairney in the middle of the park collecting the ball from our defenders and Lowe we will see more poor games from Rovers.

We might have got lucky and got a draw if the pen hadn't been given against us - thought that was a poor decision but it wouldn't have been fair to Leicester who deserved the points.

[RevidgeBlue]

This is the be all and end all in my opinion.

Lowe is far too much a negative for our cause and I think it needs to be looked at putting him in at RB ( to porve himself) and possibly moving Kane into the midfield.

Good shout, they do both look as though they're the wrong way round a lot of the time.

[G Somerset Rover]

Add Leicester away to West Ham Utd away as a definite bogey fixture.

A win on Saturday is important to get back on track.

Interesting looking at Palace's away record last season.

P23 W6 D7 L10

Home form going to be crucial

I understand what you're saying but there's not a cat in hells chance of us winning 6 away games.

[moerpho]

How come everyone is discussing Rhodes, Dunn, Rochina etc when the defense is where our real problem is? We desperatly need to stop conceding goals in every match we play! We've been lacking a commanding centre back since Samba left and how Scott Dann became captain is totally beyond me. How come Kilgallon can't even get a cameo as a substitute? Still injured? Fit enough to sit on the bench - fit enough to play methinks. I think neither Dann nor Hanley should be treated as "untouchables" as results speak for themselves. As Kamy said - even when we won big against Barnsley and Bolton we let in relatively easy goals. Bowyer should start mixing things up a bit in the back four to see if he can get a response. Give Kane a rest and play Henley if fit or Lowe or KIlgallon. Give either Dann or Hanley a rest or at least take on of them off during a game if we keep conceding - preferably Dann - and give Kilgallon or Songo'o a runout. Am I right in thinking we have no proper sub for Kean despite our humoungus squad? Only one of our defensive 4 that should feel safe is Spurr. Don't have to do all these at once but do SOMETHING. A clean sheet would do wonders I think.....

[roversR4ever]

Well spotted. Perhaps that's were they were going wrong they kept finding the blue shirts instead of the red ones. On a serious note, we badly need a quality playmaker in midfield who can actually pass the ball. Sadly, these tend to cost money and aren't readily available on the "free market". Not for the first time in away games, Rhodes became a spare part because he received no service and is unable to create much for himself. Put him in the Leicester side and he would have a field day with their ability to open up defences with their quick, incisive passing in and around the penalty area.

Don't you think cairney has done well when he has been deeper - I think he can pass well. Its similar in a way to Tugay (Cairney is not remotely in the same league as Tugay) Tugay was great playing deep and made us tick but you wouldn't have had him in the attacking mid areas. Its the lack of a creative attacking midfielder without Dunn and Rochina that's really concerning me. Moving Cairney forwards to me completely unbalances our midfield.

[den]

I wasn't saying we were good or didn't mean too - we were terrible against them last year. If it came across as us good - we weren't. I went with a friend who is a Leicester fan. He thought were better than last year but still pretty poor.

The aim from my post was that it did not work having Cairney further forwards and that needs to be changed quickly. Leicester without a shadow of a doubt were better than us - quite a bit better. Our passing was poor and I genuinely believe with out Cairney in the middle of the park collecting the ball from our defenders and Lowe we will see more poor games from Rovers.

We might have got lucky and got a draw if the pen hadn't been given against us - thought that was a poor decision but it wouldn't have been fair to Leicester who deserved the points.

Ah, thanks. It's always good to hear from the fans that went to the game. I agree with you about Cairney, I just don't see anything in his game to suggest he can play that role. Again, in my opinion, although a dozen or so players have been brought into the squad, we still have the same problems- they are all the same type of player. Bowyer just doesn't have any options when it comes to changeing tactics. People will point to injuries to Dunn and Rochina, but they were here last season and Dunn just isn't going to play enough games, while I'm far from convinced Rochina has changed his ways enough to offer more than he has so far.

[Parsonblue]

Don't you think cairney has done well when he has been deeper - I think he can pass well. Its similar in a way to Tugay (Cairney is not remotely in the same league as Tugay) Tugay was great playing deep and made us tick but you wouldn't have had him in the attacking mid areas. Its the lack of a creative attacking midfielder without Dunn and Rochina that's really concerning me. Moving Cairney forwards to me completely unbalances our midfield.

Cairney is better than most that have been brought in during the summer but I believe we are still desperately short of quality in midfield in terms of both defence and attack. We are trying to assemble a team on a shoestring at the moment and as we saw last night, it doesn't work against decent sides. We've tried this approach in the past over many years and failed to regain top flight status. At the end of the day there is no substitute for quality and we simply don't have enough of it in key areas. The fact that we are pinning our hopes on a player who couldn't break into Hull's starting eleven last season merely shows just how far we have fallen under Venky's. As you say, from Tugay to Cairney says it all really.

[roversR4ever]

Ah, thanks. It's always good to hear from the fans that went to the game. I agree with you about Cairney, I just don't see anything in his game to suggest he can play that role. Again, in my opinion, although a dozen or so players have been brought into the squad, we still have the same problems- they are all the same type of player. Bowyer just doesn't have any options when it comes to changeing tactics. People will point to injuries to Dunn and Rochina, but they were here last season and Dunn just isn't going to play enough games, while I'm far from convinced Rochina has changed his ways enough to offer more than he has so far.

I do get what you are saying, We do seem to have Lowe Evans Williamson and Marrow who are more defensive footballers than someone who can pass the ball around. I do think Evans will get sharper and improve. Cairney is actually a different player and can pass and move the ball around. He does it from a deeper position.

I think its an improvement in that at least we have one player who can pass the ball around - we didn't really have that at all last season.

I think Rochina would make a difference - playing further forwards. My gut feeling is playing him behind Rhodes his selfishness might have been less of a problem, Also did think the signs were there however briefly that he was looking to play a pass quicker than he had previously. I think given regular games he might just have contributed with some goals.

As you say we cant rely on Dunn - when he is fit yes Id play him. Problem is there are likely to periods when he isn't as we all know too well.

As you can tell I am concerned - Im not convinced that Judge or Marshall will play the role much better than Cairney - although playing either would at least mean we could play Cairney back in his rightful position which would improve us. Simply playing him in the Dunn/Rochina role means not only do we have someone who isn't great in that role but we badly weaken and unbalance our midfield in doing so.

[arbitro]

I am curious (from those that went) - how did King play when he was moved alongside Rhodes. Does anyone think this could be an option - afterall he gives us pace up front which we sadly lack with JR - and this will take pressure off Rhodes.

Arguably over the piece King was our best player on the night. In the second half he played virtually alongside Rhodes and was our greatest threat. His potential is frightening but he has a way to go yet.

[roversR4ever]

Cairney is better than most that have been brought in during the summer but I believe we are still desperately short of quality in midfield in terms of both defence and attack. We are trying to assemble a team on a shoestring at the moment and as we saw last night, it doesn't work against decent sides. We've tried this approach in the past over many years and failed to regain top flight status. At the end of the day there is no substitute for quality and we simply don't have enough of it in key areas. The fact that we are pinning our hopes on a player who couldn't break into Hull's starting eleven last season merely shows just how far we have fallen under Venky's. As you say, from Tugay to Cairney says it all really.

I think Im probably a bit more optimistic with regards Cairney. I think he will do well and has the quality on the ball to play a more deeper role in cm. I think and hope that Evans will get stronger the more games he plays. I think he is lacking quite a lot of sharpness from not really have a pre season and may well replace Lowe. I think based on how he played last year he will be good enough defensively.

I can see why Bowyer got Evans. Marrow im not sure why - hes not better than Lowe. You could easily argue that with Evans, Lowe and Williamson fighting for the same spot/role in the midfield three is too many. Of course Williamson seems pretty injury prone.

It seems on the surface that we were relying to much on Rochina. Maybe Bowyer believed that Cairney had enough quality to play the role. With Evans adding enough as an all round cm player behind him. It could be in three or four games Evans does get better and sharper.

It will now be interesting to see what Bowyer does.

My Leicester friend does think Marshall has ability and might be able to play the role but has lost a lot of confidence and doesn't look the same player because of it. He may get the confidence and sharpness back. Of course sometimes there are players who never recover it....

Of course the one other option is with the squad we have is put Cairney into that deeper cm play making role and play both Williamson and Evans with them playing more box to box roles. Obviously when Williamson is available and hope Evans gets sharper. Then Cairney may get our wide players more involved in the game. Trouble is that really does still leave Rhodes isolated, unless which ever two wide players we use start playing well consistently and start getting decent delivery into Rhodes.

[den]

How come everyone is discussing Rhodes, Dunn, Rochina etc when the defense is where our real problem is?

Because, if every time the ball is played to the front man - away from home in particular, and it doesn't stick, all we're doing is effectively giving the ball back to the opposition. Do that all game and the likelihood is that they'll steamroller you. The argument is often given that the front man needs support and service, but if the rest of the team are doing their jobs properly, then they'll all be behind the ball and quite a way from the front man. If the ball doesn't stick up front, then no one will get the opportunity to get close to him. A front man has to give his team mates time, either by getting hold of the ball and keeping hold of it, or by winning free kicks. all that gives everyone else a breather and allows the defence time to reorganise.This doesn't absolve anyone else in the side from their defensive duties, far from it, but I think more and more fans are beginning to see the problem. Apparently it was the same last night. Rhodes scored - again, but we were overrun and beaten - again.

[roversR4ever]

Because, if every time the ball is played to the front man - away from home in particular, and it doesn't stick, all we're doing is effectively giving the ball back to the opposition. Do that all game and the likelihood is that they'll steamroller you. The argument is often given that the front man needs support and service, but if the rest of the team are doing their jobs properly, then they'll all be behind the ball and quite a way from the front man. If the ball doesn't stick up front, then no one will get the opportunity to get close to him. This doesn't absolve anyone else in the side from their defensive duties, far from it, but I think more and more fans are beginning to see the problem. Apparently it was the same last night. Rhodes scored - again, but we were overrun and beaten - again.

How would you set the team up at present with our squad? Are you suggesting we need to go and buy or loan a decent number 10/attacking mid. Or do you think that even then Rhodes doesn't offer enough in his general all round play? Im not criticising genuinely interested.

[den]

How would you set the team up at present with our squad? Are you suggesting we need to go and buy or loan a decent number 10/attacking mid. Or do you think that even then Rhodes doesn't offer enough in his general all round play? Im not criticising genuinely interested.

Wish I had the answer. All this part of the problem that Bowyer currently has. He doesn't really have any other options. I guess we need an option to Rhodes. Someone else up front that can knock the back four around a bit more. What's Kuqi doing now?

Thinking about it, most front men would drop deeper when the gap between them and midfield is too big and the team can't keep possession. Maybe that has to happen.

[onlyonejackwalker]

Because, if every time the ball is played to the front man - away from home in particular, and it doesn't stick, all we're doing is effectively giving the ball back to the opposition. Do that all game and the likelihood is that they'll steamroller you. The argument is often given that the front man needs support and service, but if the rest of the team are doing their jobs properly, then they'll all be behind the ball and quite a way from the front man. If the ball doesn't stick up front, then no one will get the opportunity to get close to him. A front man has to give his team mates time, either by getting hold of the ball and keeping hold of it, or by winning free kicks. all that gives everyone else a breather and allows the defence time to reorganise.This doesn't absolve anyone else in the side from their defensive duties, far from it, but I think more and more fans are beginning to see the problem. Apparently it was the same last night. Rhodes scored - again, but we were overrun and beaten - again.

Exactly and much the same as we discussed half-way through last season. Some here don't think this represents a problem and as long as Rhodes is scoring regularly are happy to maintain the status quo. No fun Rhodes scoring and us getting beat hwoever.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

Exactly and much the same as we discussed half-way through last season. Some here don't think this represents a problem and as long as Rhodes is scoring regularly are happy to maintain the status quo. No fun Rhodes scoring and us getting beat hwoever.

Not sure its about maintaining the status quo but I'd say the majority want a solution that involves Rhodes. The guy is a 30-goal a season striker, rated at about £8m, and considered by a lot of opposition fans to be the best striker in the division. I totally see what you and Den are saying but there's no way I'd drop him for any game if I was the manager. We know 1 solution exists in playing Dunn behind him, and the early inidications against Derby were that Rochina can fill that role too.

But finding a second solution will prove tough I agree. In my opinion there's little quality in our midfield save for King, so I think its worth trying options that bypass them. Give Best another go as a target man and launch it to him to knock-down to Rhodes (worked 2nd half against Derby) or play King up front and hit it over the top/into the corners for him to chase. However we do it, as Den said, we need a way of making the ball stick up front.

This kind of thing is the true test of a manager's ability and when its Pearson or Davies vs Bowyer, as it has been this season, I fear we're seeing the difference between an average Championship manager and one who can get a team promoted.

[roversR4ever]

Wish I had the answer. All this part of the problem that Bowyer currently has. He doesn't really have any other options. I guess we need an option to Rhodes. Someone else up front that can knock the back four around a bit more. What's Kuqi doing now?

Thinking about it, most front men would drop deeper when the gap between them and midfield is too big and the team can't keep possession. Maybe that has to happen.

You could be right about dropping deeper - there is no reason why Rhodes couldn't do it. He isn't the smallest player in the world and neither does he look light weight. Without the attacking mid it might make some sense - if we are playing Cairney deep and Evans and Williamson more box to box (if they are capable of playing box to box). I suppose it is all part of trying to develop him as a player. If you have pace ie King in the midfield then the back four cant push up too much.

What wont work with Rhodes is him holding up play from longer balls - if he is along side two centre backs they will win everything. If we can get him dropping in deeper to help retain possession and then actually use width he might be able to get back into the box.

I suppose this is the learning curve, when you have such a new set of players. If we had only had a decent manager to start last season, even if it had been Bowyer. Last season would have been bedding in these players and this season adding the odd player needed to turn us into more realistic promotion candidates.

What I do know is if Best is not going to be used we should get him loaned out asap even if its to get some of his wages of the books and get in either another attacking mid number 10 or a more robust target man who can help us keep possession playing alongside Rhodes if need be.

[den]

You could be right about dropping deeper - there is no reason why Rhodes couldn't do it. He isn't the smallest player in the world and neither does he look light weight. Without the attacking mid it might make some sense - if we are playing Cairney deep and Evans and Williamson more box to box (if they are capable of playing box to box). I suppose it is all part of trying to develop him as a player. If you have pace ie King in the midfield then the back four cant push up too much.

What wont work with Rhodes is him holding up play from longer balls - if he is along side two centre backs they will win everything. If we can get him dropping in deeper to help retain possession and then actually use width he might be able to get back into the box.

Well Rooney and Man U play that way all the time. If you haven't got a Drogba, then it's the way to go. No point going through a game having no influence.

[roversR4ever]

Not sure its about maintaining the status quo but I'd say the majority want a solution that involves Rhodes. The guy is a 30-goal a season striker, rated at about £8m, and considered by a lot of opposition fans to be the best striker in the division. I totally see what you and Den are saying but there's no way I'd drop him for any game if I was the manager. We know 1 solution exists in playing Dunn behind him, and the early inidications against Derby were that Rochina can fill that role too.

But finding a second solution will prove tough I agree. In my opinion there's little quality in our midfield save for King, so I think its worth trying options that bypass them. Give Best another go as a target man and launch it to him to knock-down to Rhodes (worked 2nd half against Derby) or play King up front and hit it over the top/into the corners for him to chase. However we do it, as Den said, we need a way of making the ball stick up front.

This kind of thing is the true test of a manager's ability and when its Pearson or Davies vs Bowyer, as it has been this season, I fear we're seeing the difference between an average Championship manager and one who can get a team promoted.

With regards Bowyer I think its also that he has had to change so much of the team and squad that its going to take time to try different options and different players in the different roles.

Obviously his plan A was to use Rochina or Dunn behind Rhodes. It looked like it might have worked. The one positive I am taking is that at least Bowyer sees when its not working and tries to change it. Like trying King upfront as you said using his pace and dropping Cairney deeper into midfield at the same time. To be blunt I never saw either Kean or Appleton looking to really change it if it wasn't working. As the season progresses Bowyer will hopefully have a clearer picture of who will perform in what role during a game rather than just on the training pitch.

The problem is it will take time and patience. One with our manager and two with young players. I think a lot of our fans will understand that. Lets hope our owners do....

Its also quite nice to actually have discussion's on here about the team, who to play how Bowyer might change things etc rather than it getting personal. Ive been around long enough to know my opinion can be just as easily wrong as right. We all get it wrong about players.

The only thing I have never understood or liked is making snap judgements. Some players start off badly or poorly but over time settle and improve. Some seem to start of well and fade etc. I think it applies even more with young players.

[arbitro]

Because, if every time the ball is played to the front man - away from home in particular, and it doesn't stick, all we're doing is effectively giving the ball back to the opposition. Do that all game and the likelihood is that they'll steamroller you. The argument is often given that the front man needs support and service, but if the rest of the team are doing their jobs properly, then they'll all be behind the ball and quite a way from the front man. If the ball doesn't stick up front, then no one will get the opportunity to get close to him. A front man has to give his team mates time, either by getting hold of the ball and keeping hold of it, or by winning free kicks. all that gives everyone else a breather and allows the defence time to reorganise.This doesn't absolve anyone else in the side from their defensive duties, far from it, but I think more and more fans are beginning to see the problem. Apparently it was the same last night. Rhodes scored - again, but we were overrun and beaten - again.

It's grossly unfair to say the ball doesn't stick when played up to Rhodes. For example last night there were a significant number of balls played up to him above head height and straight (the straight, high ball is the easiest ball to defend), particularly from Dann. At the very best he can flick it on but there is no chance of him holding it up until there is some support. I would go as far as to say he has had very few balls this season away from home that are actually conducive to regular hold up play. There are far, far greater inadequacies in several individuals which are of greater detriment to the team.

[Barnesy]

Come on.....we were playing away against a team now on top of the league and lost by the odd goal in three a big improvement on last year's 3-0 drubbing.

[arbitro]

Come on.....we were playing away against a team now on top of the league and lost by the odd goal in three a big improvement on last year's 3-0 drubbing.

If only that was a true measure of improvement. Last night the score flattered us and in parts we were every bit as bad as last season. We are a work in progress but some of the basic errors we are making are costing us dearly.

[den]

It's grossly unfair to say the ball doesn't stick when played up to Rhodes. For example last night there were a significant number of balls played up to him above head height and straight (the straight, high ball is the easiest ball to defend), particularly from Dann. At the very best he can flick it on but there is no chance of him holding it up until there is some support. I would go as far as to say he has had very few balls this season away from home that are actually conducive to regular hold up play. There are far, far greater inadequacies in several individuals which are of greater detriment to the team.

I wasn't there last night, but over the past couple of seasons there have been many fans - and commentators - saying he's hardly been involved, especially away from home. Apart from that my post was basically to a poster who was asking why we were discussing the strikers, when to him the problems are about us conceding goals.

[thenodrog]

I'm just a bit cheesed off with certain players not doing their jobs and Rhodes getting the blame for it. If the team know Rhodes strengths, surely it's their job to play to them and make an effort to support him?

Btw Lowe's rubbish imo. He adds nothing offensively and doesn't do the defensive side of the game well either. Unlike MGP he gives 100% on the pitch. Are you not allowed to criticise players abilities or commitment these days?

Indeed so.... and it's up to JR to work on and improve his weaknesses. There is no 'i' in team.

Not only that but whilst you deem Lowe 'rubbish' it seems that every manager that we have had good or bad in the past 3 years plus the U21 manager have seen enough in him to make him a regular starter. Do you ever stop from your criticism to wonder why their opinion differs from yours Simon? Just as an aside if we bin off Lowe have you decided already who will be the next target of your ire?

[thenodrog]

Shoulder dislocation - I dislocated mine about 7 years ago now, put it back in myself in bed, which rather smarted. Massive bruise came up but I was back running within a week or so.

I'm not suggesting it's exactly the same for professional athletes, but it does seem a bloody long time to be out with it.

Maybe if you had had an operation to fix it you might change your opinion Bryan.