[Archived] Match Preview: Rovers v Huddersfield Town - 21st Sept 2013

[darrenrover]

Jim, Swansea did this once before if you remember when they beat us to promotion to the top flight in 1980-81. They then hurtled down the leagues at an alarming rate and only avoided dropping out of the League altogether with a last day win. Look at Cardiff, relegated from the top flight in 1962 and only returned in 2013. Look at North End, relegated in 1960 and they have yet to return. The Rovers may well return to the top flight but if it is in 50+ years time I doubt there will be many on this board who will be around to see it.

Fortunes fluctuate and I firmly believe that we are about to embark on another period of lower league football as we did between 1966 and 1992. I think the difference this time is that after such a long period in the Premier League and the way we brought about our own demise it is more difficult for supporters to accept the present position.

With the difficult financial position we are trying to rebuild with youth but that is a long term project and watching our Under-21's this season really does illustrate just how bare the cupboard is with good young prospects. Watching them being taken apart at the Reebok last night - and the final score could easily have been 7 or 8-0 - merely underlined just how difficult it is going to be to develop sufficient young players to form the backbone of a squad. Realism is not defeatism.

You're absolutely right PB. I believe that Eric Kinder was shocked at the general poor standard of quality in the youth set up and under 21s. There are however a couple of exceptions.

I believe appointing Bowyer as manager was probably the best option to bring some stability and sense of normality to the club but I have a nagging doubt, based on the state of the youth set up. Admittedly quite a number of the players were imposed by others, to what extent I've no idea.

[jim mk2]

Those clubs have gone up and down as I pointed out but the point is they have recovered from relegation many times and there is no reason with good management why we should not do the same. Rovers were out of the top flight for 26 years and fans now assume we are going to spend a similar period in the wilderness when that plainly does not have to be the case with some modest ambition, confidence, prudent spending and most important good people in charge of the club on and off the field. No one is pretending that we can be a top flight club for 30 years or more but I would be quite happy for Rovers to be another West Brom.

[Amo]

Those clubs have gone up and down as I pointed out but the point is they have recovered from relegation many times and there is no reason with good management why we should not do the same. Rovers were out of the top flight for 26 years and fans now assume we are going to spend a similar period in the wilderness when that plainly does not have to be the case with some modest ambition, confidence, prudent spending and most important good people in charge of the club on and off the field. No one is pretending that we can be a top flight club for 30 years or more but I would be quite happy for Rovers to be another West Brom.

Yeah, but Venky's.

[roversR4ever]

Jim genuinely what do think to what Bowyer has done and managed so far?

[jim mk2]

Southampton came down in 2005 after 27 years in the top flight. They have been relegated to the Third tier and achieved promotion back to the PL two years ago after administration and a ten-point deduction, Harry Redknapp, Clive Woodward, that silly fella from Hunslet United or wherever, Rupert Lowe....

Their current ownership/management are doing very well at present but I would hardly hold them up a a example of all that good husbandry and stewardship brings over an extended period of time

Many of the clubs you name have a significant advantage if FFP comes in that if they do come down, they can rely on far more fans and income through the turnstiles than us

We had to virtually give STs away sub_Accy Stanley prices to get 18000 on PL games and as Rovers have confirmed, minuted at Fans Forum meetings, attendances declared include every last ST holder who doesn't turn up on the day

We are a small town, second tier club until we get significant backing from owners who leave the footballing decisions to executives of somewhat greater standing and capability than Deepdale Duck Egg Degsy I'm afraid

So we're agreed that we need good people in charge - like all successful clubs do.Whether we are "small town" or "second tier" is irrelevant.

[onlyonejackwalker]

Not easy getting out of this division Jim. But I fully agree that must be our mimimum target each season. As others have said, it is very small margins between success and failure. Small percentage improvements can be key. The club needs to be professionally organised from top to bottom to facilitate these improvements. Time is also required for people to develope.

Some very big clubs marooned in this division with us. Tricky finishing above them.

[jim mk2]

Jim genuinely what do think to what Bowyer has done and managed so far?

I think he's doing the right things - the squad is younger, and has promise. The spirit among the players seems to be good, and they appear to want to do well for him. Fans are slowly returning. Unlike his three predecessors I think he should be given time to make a success of it. If we finish above midway this season he will be doing well, and he should aim to improve on that the season after. In the short term however he needs some good results or our daft owners will have their fingers on the trigger again. .

[roversR4ever]

I think he's doing the right things - the squad is younger, and has promise. The spirit among the players seems to be good, and they appear to want to do well for him. Fans are slowly returning. Unlike his three predecessors I think he should be given time to make a success of it. If we finish above midway this season he will be doing well, and he should aim to improve on that the season after. In the short term however he needs some good results or our daft owners will have their fingers on the trigger again. .

To be honest Jim, I agree with you. Especially when you consider the injuries he has already had to contend with, then 9 games is somewhat early for people to be panicking and getting really concerned. My only criticism is that I think he as tried to stick with Cairney in the number 10 role when its pretty obvious he is struggling in that role compared to the deeper midfield role he was playing alongside Lowe.

I mean when you consider the number of players injured this season (either prior to the season or during)

Still Injured

Robinson

Etuhu

DJ

Dunn

Rochina

Henley

Players only just returned from injury and really unlikely to be really match fit and sharp (through lack of preseason and games)

Kilgallon

Williamson

Evans (though hopefully he is starting to get there having played a few games now)

Best

[Proudtobeblue&white]

So we're agreed that we need good people in charge - like all successful clubs do.Whether we are "small town" or "second tier" is irrelevant.

Have we ever disagreed with this? But we don't, so we suffer, and the spectre of SS & the sword of the dark lords hangs over any manager who doesn't have us in the top two after 10 games.......owners need to go, or no improvement, they don't have the wherewithal to get back to where they destroyed us!

[tonyoz]

I think he's doing the right things - the squad is younger, and has promise. The spirit among the players seems to be good, and they appear to want to do well for him. Fans are slowly returning. Unlike his three predecessors I think he should be given time to make a success of it. If we finish above midway this season he will be doing well, and he should aim to improve on that the season after. In the short term however he needs some good results or our daft owners will have their fingers on the trigger again. .

I like it!

[roversR4ever]

When has Best been injured?

Best was a mistake - I know he played games early on. I had intended to put him separately saying Bowyer had no choice but to leave him out for a couple of the games because of Best "tantrums" . (I know some managers might have handled it differently but I think Bowyer handled it right). Also having spent so much time injured last season it was probably going to take him longer to get to match fitness and sharpness than a lot of the other players.

Its still a pretty long injury list for early on in the season.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

Those clubs have gone up and down as I pointed out but the point is they have recovered from relegation many times and there is no reason with good management why we should not do the same. Rovers were out of the top flight for 26 years and fans now assume we are going to spend a similar period in the wilderness when that plainly does not have to be the case with some modest ambition, confidence, prudent spending and most important good people in charge of the club on and off the field. No one is pretending that we can be a top flight club for 30 years or more but I would be quite happy for Rovers to be another West Brom.

I just don't think that's realistic, even West Brom are a significantly bigger club than Rovers. Take away Jack Walker and the direct and indirect benefits he's given the club, and we're the same size as Burnley, Preston and Blackpool. The only advantage over them that we still have is parachute payments. Well we've already blown the most significant year that they act as a benefit.

It was 26 years last time but since then football has become fashionable and infiltrated more of the country. There's additional competitors from the past that used to be smaller than Rovers but are now equal/bigger: Swansea, Brighton, Reading, Wigan, Cardiff, Hull.

The recent exploits of Burnley and Blackpool are perfect examples of what we can expect if we still haven't been promoted when the parachute payments have gone. If the club is well managed, the owners choose the exact right time to gamble (both Burnley and Blackpool spent considerably bigger than usual in the seasons they were promoted) and get the exact right manager to gamble with, promotion is possible only by the slimmest of margins (both clubs scraped through the play-offs in dramatic finals). So having achieved that unlikely feat, the challenge is to then either stay in the PL or get relegated with enough money and enough good players to come straight back up. Both Burnley and Blackpool were close to managing it, Blackpool another play-off final because they miraculously kept Holloway, Burnley finished 8th I think. After that there's a few seasons with a reduced chance, and after that its back to square one.

Basically just trying to stress that us becoming another West Brom is a phenomenally difficult task that requires everything to be near-perfect over a number of seasons. In my opinion its about as likely as getting relegated and being stuck in League 1 for a fair while, a la Preston.

[den]

There's one massive difference between now and a few years back. This league is far weaker than it was. Gone are the days when the old second division was a reasonably strong league. There isn't much to beat in this league nowadays.

[Rover_Shaun]

Which makes our current situation and circumstances even more depressing

[Salgado Is A Hero]

There's one massive difference between now and a few years back. This league is far weaker than it was. Gone are the days when the old second division was a reasonably strong league. There isn't much to beat in this league nowadays.

That's what I think as well. It's part of what I meant by this league being different to others. I actually wouldn't be too surprised if Ince got Blackpool promoted. You don't have to be a very good team to go up.

Workrate, team spirit, organisation etc goes a long way. It's why the likes of Cardiff and now Leicester had a major advantage because they'd been together for a few seasons.

And it's partly why teams like Watford and Bolton last season took a while to get going.

Pressing the panic button after 9 games is just dumb. Not when it's Kean, Appleton etc but Bowyer showed last season he knew how to win games and get the players on his side.

Players need time to get used to each other and the manager's tactics. People remark on things like Hanley and Dann's partnership blossoming the more they play together and the same applies all over the pitch. Although obviously CB and CM partnerships are the most vital.

[jim mk2]

Jack Walker encouraged Rovers as a club to think "big" in terms of ambition and confidence, and he was right. The mantra on this board is to think as small as possible.

[Parsonblue]

Jack Walker encouraged Rovers as a club to think "big" in terms of ambition and confidence, and he was right. The mantra on this board is to think as small as possible.

But Jack would have sanctioned the signing of better players than Alan Judge, Alex Marrow, Chris Taylor etc. It's difficult to think big on a shoestring budget. With the loss of £27.1 million the cloth is having to be cut accordingly and mid table Championship is about as "big" as our squad and budget allow at the moment.

[K-Hod]

But Jack would have sanctioned the signing of better players than Alan Judge, Alex Marrow, Chris Taylor etc. It's difficult to think big on a shoestring budget. With the loss of £27.1 million the cloth is having to be cut accordingly and mid table Championship is about as "big" as our squad and budget allow at the moment.

True, but Blackpool and Burnley don't have a pot to p1ss in between them and they're 1st and 2nd....

[Parsonblue]

True, but Blackpool and Burnley don't have a pot to p1ss in between them and they're 1st and 2nd....

I doubt either will be anywhere the top once injuries and suspensions hit. Both have very small squads and, like us, don't have the cash to strengthen. Their advantage over us is that they don't have the same amount of debt.

[Blue blood]

I doubt either will be anywhere the top once injuries and suspensions hit. Both have very small squads and, like us, don't have the cash to strengthen. Their advantage over us is that they don't have the same amount of debt.

I totally agree with you; I too suspect once injuries etc. begin to bite then they'll struggle.

However, who knows: it may be they get fortunate with injuries, it may be they amass enough points before injuries hit that they make the playoffs, it may be they get a bit of fortune in the games when their squad is weakened and sneak a few extra points... I think realistically for both clubs mentioned and ourselves, mid table is a fair achievement, but certainly all three should aim for playoffs. This is a crazy league with anyone beating anyone, and with a bit of good fortune even the smaller clubs can realistically end up in the playoffs.

[Amo]

Jack Walker encouraged Rovers as a club to think "big" in terms of ambition and confidence, and he was right. The mantra on this board is to think as small as possible.

Nothing wrong with being ambitious and aspiring for more than one's lot, but this has to be tempered with sober realism. Look at the predicament we are in and the people who own the club. How long have fans been repeating ad infinitum that Venky's need to hire proven people at boardroom/dressing room level to turn this club around? The owners had made a lot of costly mistakes from the moment they took over, both fiscally and footballing wise, and we are now seeing the rotten fruit of those labours. Had they not put their unconditional trust in a bunch of fraudsters and spivs, instead of proper 'football people' then perhaps this could have been avoided but they have been to stubborn/stupid/corrupt to meet those requirements. If you still expect Venky's to restore us to our former glory or some semblance thereof, then that's your prerogative and good luck with that. But this has precious little to do with a smalltime mentality and more to do with facing facts.

It's my general feeling that people are only so acquiescent to our current plight because there is at least some modicum of stability on the surface and don't wish to tempt fate based on Venky's checkered past. We're only one Shebby renaissance away from becoming a complete circus again. Fans just want to get back into the habit of supporting their team without being sidetracked by the off-field antics, like who our manager will be this week.

[thenodrog]

There's one massive difference between now and a few years back. This league is far weaker than it was. Gone are the days when the old second division was a reasonably strong league. There isn't much to beat in this league nowadays.

Logic dictates that that is not so den. I believe it's more down to your own perception being conditioned to 20 years years watching the quality of the Premier League.

Consider the Premier League of today to that of the first year. Today approx 65% of Premier League squads are made up of imported players from around the world. This obviously hasn't put the players they have replaced out of a job it's simply relegated them a Division and so on down the other leagues. 20+ years ago our centre halves, Rhodes, Rochina and maybe one or two others would likely have been playing in the Premier League's first season but nowadays they aren't good enough.

[Al]

Logic dictates that that is not so den. I believe it's more down to your own perception being conditioned to 20 years years watching the quality of the Premier League.

Consider the Premier League of today to that of the first year. Today approx 65% of Premier League squads are made up of imported players from around the world. This obviously hasn't put the players they have replaced out of a job it's simply relegated them a Division and so on down the other leagues. 20+ years ago our centre halves, Rhodes, Rochina and maybe one or two others would likely have been playing in the Premier League's first season but nowadays they aren't good enough.

If you attended week in and week out you would know that in spite of your skewed logic Den is correct.

[thenodrog]

Jack Walker encouraged Rovers as a club to think "big" in terms of ambition and confidence, and he was right. The mantra on this board is to think as small as possible.

If Jack had stuck to his own advice he should (and quite easily could) have bought Burnley, Preston, Bolton and Blackpool as well as BRFC, bulldozed the lot into the ground and set up Lancashire County FC and built them somewhere close to J32 of the M6.

And before you comment without putting your brain into gear as usual remember resistance is futile. As time goes on and we become ever weaker more and more will come around to my way of thinking. Unfortunately negotiating from a position of weakness is not as good as when you have the wealth of the Walkers behind you.

[thenodrog]

If you attended week in and week out you would know that in spite of your skewed logic Den is correct.

Other than Huddersfield I have done (but not away) and he isn't .... and neither are you. My logic is far more robust than your faded recollections.