[Archived] Bowyer

[OJRovers]

Kamy - any danger that Venkys will have people whispering in their ear about a new manager? I'm sure Shaw would advise against sacking Bowyer but you wouldn't put it past them to go over his head.

[Kamy100]

You can never say never with Venky’s but for the moment there is no sign whatsoever of Bowyer being sacked. There are people in and around Venky’s who have their own agendas and he was under a massive amount of pressure prior to the Leeds away game, if he had lost that game then it could have been curtains. However, since his trip to Pune all of that talk has been banished.

For what it is worth, I would not judge Bowyer until next season. There is no doubt that tactically he has been found wanting on a number of occasions this season and there is no consistency of selection. BUT he is working in difficult circumstances, the squad has had to be reshaped and costs cut. Burnley, Hull and Crystal Palace have proved that you can do very well on a limited budget, but the core of their squads were together for more than 12 months.

So for me I will judge Bowyer next season. But in the end it matters not a jot what we the fans think or even what senior employees at Ewood think. In the end owners will do whatever the heck they want and will not take the view of the fans into account. The only people that can influence Venky's are the advisers/associates within their inner circle and some of these people will put self interest ahead of what is good for Rovers.

[yoda]

You can never say never with Venky’s but for the moment there is no sign whatsoever of Bowyer being sacked. There are people in and around Venky’s who have their own agendas and he was under a massive amount of pressure prior to the Leeds away game, if he had lost that game then it could have been curtains. However, since his trip to Pune all of that talk has been banished.

For what it is worth, I would not judge Bowyer until next season. There is no doubt that tactically he has been found wanting on a number of occasions this season and there is no consistency of selection. BUT he is working in difficult circumstances, the squad has had to be reshaped and costs cut. Burnley, Hull and Crystal Palace have proved that you can do very well on a limited budget, but the core of their squads were together for more than 12 months.

So for me I will judge Bowyer next season. But in the end it matters not a jot what we the fans think or even what senior employees at Ewood think. In the end owners will do whatever the heck they want and will not take the view of the fans into account. The only people that can influence Venky's are the advisers/associates within their inner circle and some of these people will put self interest ahead of what is good for Rovers.

That just screams out that the sooner they are gone the better

[Kamy100]

That just screams out that the sooner they are gone the better

While things have been better this season, my default position with Venky's will always remain that at any point we are always 2 weeks away from a full blown crisis. They are always capable of making that one horrendous decision that can send the club into a tailspin. That will never change.

[rog of the rovers]

Ironically this time last season, we were fighting to stay in the Championship! Middle table mediocrity is an improvement!

People seem to forget this.

If we finish in the top half that would be a sign of progression. If we can progress again next season we could make the playoffs.

Last seasons turnover of staff and players will probably haunt us for years, but for now its all about rebuilding, and Bowyer is a major part of that.

[funny-old-game]

You can never say never with Venky’s but for the moment there is no sign whatsoever of Bowyer being sacked. There are people in and around Venky’s who have their own agendas and he was under a massive amount of pressure prior to the Leeds away game, if he had lost that game then it could have been curtains. However, since his trip to Pune all of that talk has been banished.

For what it is worth, I would not judge Bowyer until next season. There is no doubt that tactically he has been found wanting on a number of occasions this season and there is no consistency of selection. BUT he is working in difficult circumstances, the squad has had to be reshaped and costs cut. Burnley, Hull and Crystal Palace have proved that you can do very well on a limited budget, but the core of their squads were together for more than 12 months.

So for me I will judge Bowyer next season. But in the end it matters not a jot what we the fans think or even what senior employees at Ewood think. In the end owners will do whatever the heck they want and will not take the view of the fans into account. The only people that can influence Venky's are the advisers/associates within their inner circle and some of these people will put self interest ahead of what is good for Rovers.

Please elaborate :- advisers/associates within their inner circle and some of these people will put self interest ahead of what is good for Rovers.

[Roverthechimp]

You really think we are building a promotion squad??? We are a million miles awy mate. We need players who can pass it rather than hoof it for starters.Its an apology of a playing squad.

Today was just the poignant reminder of everything we have all seen with our own eyes all year.

Its a downsizing of quality but bizarrely hardly a downsizing of cost. Its a complete clusterfeck of a club from top to bottom and terrible days like these will become more regular believe me.

I cannot find words to express my hatred for Venkys-today just brought all up to date in a single afternoon.

I think you will find that costs have been cut drastically with the full effect shown at the end of next seasons accounts.

I think this squad is more likely to be challenging for playoff/promotion than last seasons squad - with 2-3 changes in the summer we will have a very strong first 11 och an ok bench.

[booth]

Ironically this time last season, we were fighting to stay in the Championship! Middle table mediocrity is an improvement!

People seem to forget this.

If we finish in the top half that would be a sign of progression. If we can progress again next season we could make the playoffs.

Last seasons turnover of staff and players will probably haunt us for years, but for now its all about rebuilding, and Bowyer is a major part of that.

And if this seasons league was as strong as last seasons we would be in a similar position.

Not convinced myself.

[sharpysharps]

Ironically this time last season, we were fighting to stay in the Championship! Middle table mediocrity is an improvement!

People seem to forget this.

If we finish in the top half that would be a sign of progression. If we can progress again next season we could make the playoffs.

Last seasons turnover of staff and players will probably haunt us for years, but for now its all about rebuilding, and Bowyer is a major part of that.

It is extremely important how the team go about bouncing back on Wednesday night. I feel a win with a poor performance would not be enough to convince a lot of fans. We haven't appeared as comfotable winners in a game probably since we played Bournemouth back in September.

My advice to Bowyer from now to the rest of the season would be pick the following team and keep it that way unless injuries prevent it:

Robbo

Lowe

Hanley

Keane

Spurr

Conway

Cairney

Evans

Varney

Gestede

Rhodes

Varney is a workhorse, he might not be all that technically but he will work for the team, hence me including him in that line-up. Drop Henley and stick Lowe back in the full back role. Don't think Kane is good enough either so Lowe is my preferred choice there.

Here's what I would lineup with next season:

New GK

New RB

Hanley

New & Experienced CB

Spurr

Marshall

Evans

Cairney

Conway

Rhodes

Gestede / New CF

Call me old fashioned but for me we need to play 442. If Rhodes is sticking around for next season then he needs someone who can play up alongside him in the Ilk of a Jason Roberts. Someone big and strong who can bully defenders. I don't think fancy dans like Rochina are the way forward.

[Roverthechimp]

What current plan? Since you state that its "not been communicated to the fans" how do you know there is one?

If the current plan is to assess things weekly then even that is a (poor) plan. Looking at the way we are operating it is clear (IMO) that costs are to be cut while transfers are to be long term development 'projects' (with the odd exception). In short the wage/fee/roi is considered important. My take is that the plan is to get us closer to break even - make up shortfall with player development /trading hence a focus on managers with experience in youth development.

Again IMO :-)

Edit: @#/? up quote

[martonrover]

Ironically this time last season, we were fighting to stay in the Championship! Middle table mediocrity is an improvement!

People seem to forget this.

If we finish in the top half that would be a sign of progression. If we can progress again next season we could make the playoffs.

Last seasons turnover of staff and players will probably haunt us for years, but for now its all about rebuilding, and Bowyer is a major part of that.

The reason we got sucked into the relegation scrap last season was the Division was a freak in terms of the high points total required to stay up.

The table is more conventional this season.

Points wise we are roughly the same.

[Jackie_Moon]

I find it unbelievable how unrealistic some fans at this club are. The dislike people have for Bowyer is unfathomable. If anyone genuinely thinks that we could have been promoted at the start of the season lacks a grasp on reality. No manager in the world could have got us promoted with the lack of skill and resources at the club at the moment. What would holloway, coyle etc have done differently? I doubt they would have been able to build a squad with less than £2 mill and clear the debt bowyer has. I'm sure they might have got the odd win against burnley or Bolton, but seriously question whether they would have got the quality together to build a promotion side in 8 months. The fact that Bowyer has kept playoff talk going until this stage is a credit to him, not to mention the fact he saved us from relegation last year and has brought stability to the club for the first time in 3 seasons. Yet people on here still waffle on about getting a new manager. Unfortunately this would be a backwards step. We would end up with a Owen coyle esque manager who would be utter garbage. What needs to be understood here is that over the last 3 years this club has fallen into complete dog @#/? and there is no quick fix to the problem. Our road to recovery is going to take some time and mistakes will be made (by bowyer and the players) on the way. But from what I can see is that there is some core being formed to this team players like Cairney, Evans, Hanley and Rhodes are creating a backbone to this side. Young players are being given a chance and we are recruiting some handy players like Conway, gestede and Kilgallon. It's obvious players like Spurr, Williamson, Taylor, Marrow, judge and Varney will not be playing for this club when we eventually get promoted but at the end of the day there is no other option and they are doing a job in the championship.

As has already been said, the time to judge Bowyer is not now but 12-18 months down the line from here, and if we are still getting beaten 4-0 and losing to local rivals then we can start talking about moving on.

[yoda]

I find it unbelievable how unrealistic some fans at this club are. The dislike people have for Bowyer is unfathomable. If anyone genuinely thinks that we could have been promoted at the start of the season lacks a grasp on reality. No manager in the world could have got us promoted with the lack of skill and resources at the club at the moment. What would holloway, coyle etc have done differently? I doubt they would have been able to build a squad with less than £2 mill and clear the debt bowyer has. I'm sure they might have got the odd win against burnley or Bolton, but seriously question whether they would have got the quality together to build a promotion side in 8 months. The fact that Bowyer has kept playoff talk going until this stage is a credit to him, not to mention the fact he saved us from relegation last year and has brought stability to the club for the first time in 3 seasons. Yet people on here still waffle on about getting a new manager. Unfortunately this would be a backwards step. We would end up with a Owen coyle esque manager who would be utter garbage. What needs to be understood here is that over the last 3 years this club has fallen into complete dog kean and there is no quick fix to the problem. Our road to recovery is going to take some time and mistakes will be made (by bowyer and the players) on the way. But from what I can see is that there is some core being formed to this team players like Cairney, Evans, Hanley and Rhodes are creating a backbone to this side. Young players are being given a chance and we are recruiting some handy players like Conway, gestede and Kilgallon. It's obvious players like Spurr, Williamson, Taylor, Marrow, judge and Varney will not be playing for this club when we eventually get promoted but at the end of the day there is no other option and they are doing a job in the championship.

As has already been said, the time to judge Bowyer is not now but 12-18 months down the line from here, and if we are still getting beaten 4-0 and losing to local rivals then we can start talking about moving on.

[booth]

You do understand Holloway and Coyle got their clubs promoted with a lot less money and facilities. Have you ever seen Blackpool or Burnleys training grounds?

Fair enough less turmoil too but this idea that Bowyer hasn't a pot to pee in is ludicrous.

[tomphil]

Every time a player has been injured Bowyer has been able to get a replacement in. Not many managers seem able to do that in this league. He's had the backing, he's got the bodies so it's time to start delivering. Yes we are a bit average but forget the Burnley result for a minute, we should be able to at least win back to back now and then but he can't get HIS squad to do that and it's a concern.

[Jackie_Moon]

You do understand Holloway and Coyle got their clubs promoted with a lot less money and facilities. Have you ever seen Blackpool or Burnleys training grounds?

Fair enough less turmoil too but this idea that Bowyer hasn't a pot to pee in is ludicrous.

I appreciate that but I also understand that Coyle and Holloway got their clubs relegated with clubs with much more stability and quality of players. I also understand that Blackpool and Burnley haven't been bent over by a group of Chicken farmers from India. The jobs they had at burnley and Blackpool are not comparable to the job bowyer has at rovers.

[yoda]

I appreciate that but I also understand that Coyle and Holloway got their clubs relegated with clubs with much more stability and quality of players. I also understand that Blackpool and Burnley haven't been bent over by a group of Chicken farmers from India. The jobs they had at burnley and Blackpool are not comparable to the job bowyer has at rovers.

Rubbish

[Stuart]

Agree to a point but an empty stadium speaks volumes !

You will NEVER get an empty stadium. You will always have c.3-4000 die hards. Which is a bloody good number if you think about it (by lower league standards).

With those kinds of numbers you are not going to make any statement apart from the natural economics of the football league pyramid.

[arbitro]

For the umpteenth time this season we saw Bowyer make several positional changes to accomodate a substitute. When he correctly took Dunn off he replaced him with Feeney who went wide right. Conway then went into the hole and immediately looked uncomfortable. Why didn't he bring Taylor on who has played in the number 10 role before. He would have given us some energy in a position where we were fading due to Dunn's fatigue. In no time at all we conceded two goals and he was forced to bring Gestede on. I saw Williamson take his bottoms off and warm up in readiness to come on. That told me that Bowyer would have been happy with a point.

Over the course of this season we have seen too many decisions like this and this is the main reason I think he should be replaced. Also his blind loyalty to several under performing players has also cost us dearly in some games. For every decent player he has signed he has brought in a dud. I wouldn't give him any credit for reducing the wage bill. This was out of his hands with regard to the high earning wasters and I think the shifting of these was more down to Shaw.

[booth]

I appreciate that but I also understand that Coyle and Holloway got their clubs relegated with clubs with much more stability and quality of players. I also understand that Blackpool and Burnley haven't been bent over by a group of Chicken farmers from India. The jobs they had at burnley and Blackpool are not comparable to the job bowyer has at rovers.

Coyle didn't get Burnley relegated, Laws did. Blackpool were relegated and Holloway had nothing to work with. Not even a usable training ground.

That either of those managers got their teams promoted is a minor miracle. Dyche has had a much better and settled squad than Coyle ever had but if he gets them up it's an amazing feat.

Anyway what's any of this got to do with Bowyers bizarre tactics and substitutions? He continually screws things up that's the issue. What's frustrating is the injuries and turmoil aren't the thing that's affecting what's gone on on the pitch this season in most part.

Cairney wide, Taylor in the middle, isolating Rhodes sitting back on 1-0 leads. I'm sure someone with a bit more nouse would have us in the play off spots now.

There's people saying this season was about settling the ship. No it wasn't it was about getting promoted we've been pushed that from the start. Bowyer is in the Telegraph today saying we're pushing for the play offs.

If he's going to do that then he can expect some criticism if we beat Bournemouth then get beat at Huddersfield after sitting back on a narrow lead. It's been happening all season.

[Jackie_Moon]

Rubbish

Which part? Were Blackpool and Bolton less stable when they got relegated? Were burnley, Blackpool or palace ripped apart by their respective owners? Or were coyles and holloways job comparable to bowyers?

Would you care to elaborate?

[yoda]

Which part? Were Blackpool and Bolton less stable when they got relegated? Were burnley, Blackpool or palace ripped apart by their respective owners? Or were coyles and holloways job comparable to bowyers?

Would you care to elaborate?

All of it and it is not relevant to us, is that elaborate enough

[K-Hod]

The definition of insanity is to do the same things over and over again and expect a different result.

Bowyer has been insane on more than one occasion. Why does everyone get so precious whenever he's criticised? If anyone screws up and makes a mistake in life, they get pulled up on it, and rightly so.

Sitting back and defending a lead, giving the opposition impetus is a stupid tactic, especially when this side is second in the league and in great form.

Losing, the way we did was unforgivable, and it isn't the first time we've failed to hold onto a lead, why is he not learning?

The substitutions too are baffling, and badly timed, Gestede should have come on way before he did, reactive, not proactive was a good summary from another poster.

[Jackie_Moon]

All of it and it is not relevant to us, is that elaborate enough

Coyle didn't get Burnley relegated, Laws did. Blackpool were relegated and Holloway had nothing to work with. Not even a usable training ground.

That either of those managers got their teams promoted is a minor miracle. Dyche has had a much better and settled squad than Coyle ever had but if he gets them up it's an amazing feat.

Anyway what's any of this got to do with Bowyers bizarre tactics and substitutions? He continually screws things up that's the issue. What's frustrating is the injuries and turmoil aren't the thing that's affecting what's gone on on the pitch this season in most part.

Cairney wide, Taylor in the middle, isolating Rhodes sitting back on 1-0 leads. I'm sure someone with a bit more nouse would have us in the play off spots now.

There's people saying this season was about settling the ship. No it wasn't it was about getting promoted we've been pushed that from the start. Bowyer is in the Telegraph today saying we're pushing for the play offs.

If he's going to do that then he can expect some criticism if we beat Bournemouth then get beat at Huddersfield after sitting back on a narrow lead. It's been happening all season.

Unfortunately not. And it became relevant when people called for bowyers sacking and coyles and holloways names were thrown in the mix (amongst others). It also became relevant when you made you made outlandish comments such as "rubbish" without any real clarification as to why.

Booth, coyle didn't get burnley relegated but he did get Bolton relegated who were a fairly stable prem side over 10 years.

It's also worth noting hat Dyche has been at burnley for 18 months and coyle was there 24 months before getting them promoted. Admittedly holloway did a quick job but as I've already said I feel that palace and Blackpool jobs were more advantageous than the current blackburn job.

I completely agree that some daft decisions have been made tactically and I only hope that bowyer can learn from these mistakes and I'm fairly certain he will. But I believe that this season was all about steadying the ship and to expect a manager to stabilise the club and win promotion in less than 12 months is ludicrous.

[yoda]

Unfortunately not. And it became relevant when people called for bowyers sacking and coyles and holloways names were thrown in the mix (amongst others). It also became relevant when you made you made outlandish comments such as "rubbish" without any real clarification as to why.

Booth, coyle didn't get burnley relegated but he did get Bolton relegated who were a fairly stable prem side over 10 years.

It's also worth noting hat Dyche has been at burnley for 18 months and coyle was there 24 months before getting them promoted. Admittedly holloway did a quick job but as I've already said I feel that palace and Blackpool jobs were more advantageous than the current blackburn job.

I completely agree that some daft decisions have been made tactically and I only hope that bowyer can learn from these mistakes and I'm fairly certain he will. But I believe that this season was all about steadying the ship and to expect a manager to stabilise the club and win promotion in less than 12 months is ludicrous.

It has been stated many times by club employees that this season is vital that we get promoted,

not interested in other clubs, only the destruction the Raos have done to the Rovers